Interesting....

lol

actually Khamon I was confronted by Christians as much as by Atheists on the build - interestingly enough.

There is quite a bit more in symbolism there which actually forms a different picture...nonetheless....by having provoked responses and having thoughts and emotions stirred it in the terms of modern Art would qualify as Art and has definitely fullfilled its purpose

Actually, when I first read about it, I didn't think of religious implications at all. My thoughts were of KKK symbolism, and I was actually amazed that you weren't immediately perma-banned.

Or unless it's inside a building.

it is inside a building unless someone drags it out

Exactly.

How do they drag it out?

If something is yours they can not move it unless physics are enabled, just disable physics.....

JV

it has physics enabled


actually I will disable that feature...

Well this will be an uncharacteristic post for me, but Az, I gotta say you've got some nerve. First of all, you're surprised that someone complained about a burning cross? So, in your annoyance at being reprimanded for it you take a Linden around Aqua pointing out other things to say "if my burning cross isn't okay, what about this?!" which resulted in one of my art pieces having to be removed. A tasteful black and white nude featuring a mannequin with no naughty bits coiled in strands of light called "a little light bondage" (which was a pun. The image had nothing to do with bondage. The image was about light). The Linden who contacted me about it called it an extremely mild example of nudity and I assume wouldn't have thought twice about it had someone not complained.

Before anyone freaks out, the Linden had nothing to do with me knowing who made the complaint. I happened to be speaking to someone by IM at the time it was going on who was there to witness it. How ironic the complaint came from someone who doesn't find the image offensive but was just trying to make a point. Then you have the nerve to post signs on your church build complaining about disney linden and having your free speech curtailed?

For the record I didn't report the burning cross and wouldn't have had I noticed it. I'm certainly not suprised that someone complained about it though.

How exactly do your actions here in any way support free speech or effectively protest it being restricted? I have no beef with you but good grief man. I'm not even upset about having to remove the piece. Offending anyone has never been my intent or desire. But knowing the circumstances of the complaint and knowing that it had nothing to do with anyone actually being offended frankly pisses me off, especially when that someone has stated on numerous occasions that their builds are designed specifically to cause controversy and make people uncomfortable. If I'm mistaken in any of my assumptions here, please correct me. If I'm not mistaken and you don't want people to think of you as a hypocrite you might try not being one. Try practicing what you preach or stop preaching. Complaining about lack of free speech by causing the speech of others to be repressed is like protesting violence by hitting someone over the head with a brick.

Lets look at this in detail...



To my knowledge no one complained about the cross...in case someone did object to it and report it...I do not know about it...the actual thing that was returned and the ToS violation filed on was in Gualala.


Very contrary to you opinion, which is legitimate and would be an obvious reaction, I chose your picture because of its very nature. It is an incredibly good picture which I have seen and admired a few times before. It is so well done that it poses the question where the borderline between art and Linden implied violation is. As we see the Art jurors of Linden have found it too much....and it is a very disapointing fact since we will probably have to put up Disney pictures in PG sims now...and even some of those may be objectable since they may refer to 'Furries'.

The fact of the installation being returened in Gualala is not the actula affront...I had actually expected that way earlier.
The fact of a Linden not contacting me...the vageuness of ToS in this respect and the way ToS is implemented are the problem as stated in a few other threads.

Therefore this isn't at all about free speech....it is about Linden policies and their actual implemencation within SL.
The fact that Prostitution and Gambling can result in RL money which make them as real as actual RL prostitution and gambling are matters that need to be checked into since they could take on a very real RL proportion - meaning the eventual closing of SL or partial closing of SL.

I appreciate the honesty of your response Az. I disagree with your methods but I do agree that more information needs to be provided to people when a complaint is filed against them or one of their objects/builds. As far as I can tell unless something is patently offensive the Lindens don't tend to concern themselves with it. It's only when somone complains that they tend to err on the side of caution and ask that it be removed. I have nothing against LL for requesting I remove the artwork, but I find the cause to be quite ironic. I don't think it's unreasonable for LL to want PG areas to be places where people can have a reasonable expectation of not being confronted with controversial or inflammatory language or imagery. The line between art and TOS violation is mostly subjective and I view the Lindens taking a hands off approach until someone complains as their way of being as objective as they can. In this case I was told specifically what object was involved and that someone had found it objectionable so I was asked politely to remove it, which I did. I have no complaints about how LL handled it. I think perhaps if you put prominant info dispensors at your builds giving some blurbage about the intent and what questions you hope it will make people ponder that you might have less people misinterpreting your intent. Sorry for harshing out on you, but GRRRRR!

actually I am working on notecards to give a more detailed information...this just hit before I got them up.

The difference again is...you were asked..I was not although I was online at the time.
I wouldn't have had a problem with changing/ removing it - if contacted. Having it wordlessly returned is another thing.
No reason given.....

The Lindens need to have some consistency...internal policy about content that is or is not ok and the way things are aproached towards us...the customer.

I read that three times and no where did I see. "I'm sorry." or "I apologize." I don't think that is too much considering you did get his stuff taken down. As for SL gambling, I haven't heard of online gambling sites being closed down for this and the prostitution is no more than cyber for money which is legal at least in my state. Just like phone sex for money.

So you get a time out, therefore you are gonna moan and complain until none of us get to have any fun. Well that sucks.

I am not sorry....for what...pointing out an issue that a lot of people are complaining about in other threads?

and I am not on a time out...

I meant the part where you got other people penalized because of your little crusade.

where did I get other people penalized? Chip took a pic down that he can put up in a M sim without any problem...I would be more then glad to offer Chip space in our gallery in Gualala which is M rated for his 'offensive' art...

Off with his head!

Sensual I understand going medieval about this...just whose head are you refering to..Grim's or mine?

It is about YOU... as usual...

Yours! Why would anyone take off Grims? A burning Cross? I think less of you now then I ever did before...

Sensual...I personally don't get what these posts have to do with the original subject of this thread and I will get involved in some personal flame war because of some wild and wonderful idea you have that I dislike you or so because of deleting your calling card along with about 200 or 300 others...
But if you want to...feel free to vent a bit and I hope you'll feel better afterwards *hug

Az,
Please spare the bullshit! This has nothing to do with a Calling Card or if you like me or not, frankly... I don't care! I thought I made that very clear to you the other day? I also made it very clear, just exactly what I think about you!
Before I showed you kindness and respect cus you are MUCH older then I am and I was raised to respect my elders, but after time and after reading all your crap on the forums you are nothing but another jerk that wants to be a board warrior and pass your unwanted opinions on everyone. I have seen you make several personal attacks on MANY people that post here as if you are some sort of saint. Then you want to cry like you are some sort of God and did nothing wrong, and come to find you are crying cus you got in trouble for a BURNING CROSS? Grim was right, even if that were in a mature sim, you should have been banned!

Sensual I see you have actually not followed the thread...it was not the cross.....it was the instalation Gualala....

I did read it ...

Actually it is nothing i 'did'. I had an object returned from a lot Aqua. A burning cross - on the other hand since it is moveable by anyone and physics enabled...it could have been moved. So I didn't give it any thought. I have stuff in Sistiana that gets returned all the time because it ends up on the street or so and I just put it back up.
At the same time an instalation at the gallery in Gualala is returned by some 'Agent' Linden. Who only after having been directly approached explains that some 'fly-by's" complained about it. Although I was inworld, the courtesy of telling seemed to have bypassed the omnipotent Linden.

What part am I not "reading"? Either way you were owner of a "burning cross" which in my mind is grounds for a permanent ban.

the same place featured a broken islamic symbol....which no one objects to...

(both were temporarily removed until I get the time to put notecards up)

and taking a singular object out of the context is just distorting the context...also grim did not say I was suposed to be banned for it..he was just mentioning the fact that he thought I could have been banned for it.

Your implication of a symbol being the cause for a ban is actually a major part of the building in Aqua. It refers a lot to intolerance on different levels and the consequaences of those.

So in a way I actually need to thank you Sensual for pointing this out to everyone

I don't think that a simple notecard will justify the sight of a burning cross!