Interesting....

Open prostitution....events proclaiming drug abuse....gambling online....no problem in Linden Land....

The 8 o'clock news.....no we don't want to see that................


thx Agent Linden................................

...very helpful and so informative.....

1st off I have multiple lots...in multiple sims.....it might help to know which sim and which lot is meant...........

2nd as many have stated before...maybe tell us what is wrong or against ToS...because otherwise..just suspend us ...these emails do nothing to prevent the repetition of something.....

3rd if the person is online...how about contacting them....its about like neg rating from an alt account....just in this case....we could get suspended or banned....meaning this costs RL money and not some rating points....

After all....SL may be what it will, formost its a business...we are paying customers.... and a bit of Customer Relationship wouldn't hurt.

AZ, what did you do?

Tip a prostitute in a PG-Sim?

Okay, here's what you do.

Go to each of your PG-sim lots, and try to think of something you have done that might constitute something against the TOS or community standards. Waste one hour.

Backtrack your day, visiting all the other locations in a PG sim that you could have possibly visited. Waste another 1.5 hours of time trying to think of something that you've done, or purportedly did, and to whom.

Punish yourself -- three day suspension for NOT remembering what you did do.

ROFLMAO. Did you use a naughty word at mass?

And if you spent more time cybering with prostitutes, celebrating drug use and gambling then maybe you wouldn't be in PG sims breaking the rules! MWWAHAHAHAHA...

It really makes me angry that Linden Labs sends out these emails wiithout spelling out what the exact offense is. How in the hell can you even defend yourself from something if you don't know what you allegedly did? They hide behind 'privacy reasons', yet whose privacy are you protecting? Sorry, but if you cannot provided documented proof to substantiate the alleged offense, then you have no right to be leveling accusations against someone and potentially suspending their accounts. Hell, the most basic of disciplinary actions in life from grade school onward tell you what you actually did and why you are being punished.

What can possibly be the justification for telling someone they violated the TOS without telling them how. That is stupid and horrible customer service.
In general, I support LL, but in this case, I find their actions to be quite frankly, idiotic and counterproductive. It is bad enough that they don't act on serious repeat offenses, but then you have an excellent member like Azrazeal being told he violated TOS, but not given any clue how. What sense does that make?

Cristiano

Most angry posts on these forums seem to be directed at each other. But this particular issue seems to be generating a lot of anger at LL. That in and of itself should be an indication to them that maybe they are wrong.

** deleted **

Yes, I can honestly say that. The worst I would do would be to avoid the person if I felt I was wronged. If I felt it was simply a misunderstanding, or that I WAS in the wrong, I would apologie.

Thats still a brighter future than the current one, where you can get three successive strikes on the same issue and still have no clue what it is.

If I'm doing something thats gonna get me banned, damnit, in my *opinion* they are obligated to at least tell me *what* it is so that I can correct it.

Most people who get an abuse report and are puzzled by it are people who are honestly just trying to enjoy the game, I would suspect. I don't think many people who go into sandbox and start serial-orbiting people for a half hour are really *surprised* when they get a TOS violation notice, nor are they confused as to what its for.

On the flip side of the issue, you have people who have honestly not tried to offend anyone, and as a result have no clue what someone took offense over. They get the TOS violation, and are shocked, because they dont see why they deserved it. So they try to figure out what it is they are doing or did that warented it, and lindens refuse to tell them.

It's like being a child and having a parent say, "Your grounded for a week" out of the blue. You ask what for, and your parent says "Because you did something I didn't like." You ask what "I can't tell you that."

What situation is that improving?

Here's the big kicker, Maxx.

We're not kindergarden children who needs protection. There is no formal "death" in this game. There is no "great penalty in the sky."

So how could someone truly get revenge? Don't you think that by the Linden's telling the person in violation that what they did was WRONG might a) make that person rethink what they did, and b) maybe help them to think twice before they do something else?

In the world of Second Life, like real life, you can't keep crying and running behind mama's skirts saying you were "hurt".

Sooner or later, you have to grow up -- and take the punches as they come. It's especially true if you are one who throws the punches at others to get the "feud" as you call it, beginning. You can't have it both ways. Sooner or later, even your mama is gonna get tired of antics, and probably toss you out into the boxing ring.

Tell the people what they did. Give them the choice of explaining their actions for the so-called violation or not -- THEN proceed with the penalty phase.

You can't protect players because "they feel that revenge" will be taken upon them. We're big boys and girls creating what is called the next metauniverse, right? And we're using "mama's skirts" because we're afraid of revenge? Good god, this place will be filled with whiners wherein if I roll my eyes at someone, I'll be tos'd because it means I was "abusive" to an individual.

* Rolls eyes at Lynn *

Careful there. I might hit you with my scripted tongue.

Case in point. Sunday night, myself and three friends decided to play bang-bang, shoot-'em-up with some wonderfully scripted guns.

I can't tell you how many times I had the abuse report kick up because of accidental "bumping" or being hit with one of the bullets during this time.

In the heat of the battle, I could have accidentally reported one of my friends, causing them to receive a one-day suspension. It's just unbelievable to me that the abuse reports are so easily sent; suspensions are so easily given without an explanation. It just doesn't make sense.


I'm half tempted to make a "bobble-head" script and bump into people. "Lynn Lippmann has hit you with a bobble-head, would you like to report this abuse?"

Not to mention you should always have the right to face your accuser.

JV

LL has apparently decided they do not want to allow appeals, and has decided to more strongly exercise their stated right to ban you without notice for any/no reason.

I can imagine why...the number of hours sifting through pointless appeals must be considerable. It's certainly easier to just lock players out of the process.

Something about it sure don't feel right though, especially since the procedure for arriving at the decision to lock out your account isn't posted anywhere, other than the guidelines of the TOS.

I'd like to see something more explicit, like the following...

- The TOS is absolute. Any infraction of it is actionable.

- Disciplinary action will not be considered unless the complaint is established as authentic. Authenticity may ONLY be established by an employee of LL. CUT 'n PASTED LOGS AND PLAYER SCREENSHOTS ARE NOT CONSIDERED AUTHENTIC unless submitted by way of the in game mechanism, or unless taken by an employee of LL. "Authentic" is entirely established at the discretion of LL.

- Warnings will be issued prior to a banning. Based on the severity of a complaint established as authentic, no warning may be issued (i.e., a brutal verbal assault, even in a mature area, graphic pornographic joke in the welcome area, or any action obviously directed to effect the gameplay and peaceful/lawful state of another resident, aka 'griefing').

- You will receive, as part of your notice, the authentic evidence used to determine your suspension or ban. You may send an appeal, with the understanding that it MAY OR MAY NOT be considered by LL, and that LL is under NO obligation to respond, or alter their decision.

...and to protect themselves...

- If you submit reports that abuse this system, you (the reporter) may be suspended or banned. Disciplinary action is a serious matter and any attempt to misuse or defraud these mechanisms is considered in itself a violation of the TOS.

CoH, for example, posted a page with specific examples of what they consider unlawful use of derivative works. I was surprised to see this consideration.

LL is running into some serious comm problems with the populace. They need to develop a better strategy for communicating game changes and procedures. It's not beta anymore and not everybody is buddies with the Lindens from back in the day. Expecting everybody to just "don't worry, assume they're doing the right thing" is not entirely reasonable.

On another point, I do feel SL is becoming overrun by porn, gambling, and drug references. I made a point of getting out and about for a few days, and the overwhelming majority of popular events and sites is based on soft to hard-core porn, gambling, and so forth (please don't point out the event calendar, that's not what I mean). Not a direction I hoped to see SL go. I never complain about it, but I'm just surprised to see so many adults that apparently crave this sort of environment.

maxx, if we accept your well stated reasoning, then they shouldn't tell us who has assigned negative ratings as well. it doesn't seem to matter that those messages cause inworld feuds every day.

there should be a clause in the TOS that threatens us with suspension for filing frivalous reports. wouldn't it be poetic if i filed a report against lynn for bumping me once in a crowd of 40 avs, then got an email saying that i was in violation of the TOS & would be suspended for a day.

thank you lynn for being willing participant in my most humble example. feel free to bump me any time.

*hits Khamon with the scripted tongue in cheek*

Actually it is nothing i 'did'. I had an object returned from a lot Aqua. A burning cross - on the other hand since it is moveable by anyone and physics enabled...it could have been moved. So I didn't give it any thought. I have stuff in Sistiana that gets returned all the time because it ends up on the street or so and I just put it back up.
At the same time an instalation at the gallery in Gualala is returned by some 'Agent' Linden. Who only after having been directly approached explains that some 'fly-by's" complained about it. Although I was inworld, the courtesy of telling seemed to have bypassed the omnipotent Linden.
Afterwards I have this cute email. So either...it refers to Aqua and I have no clue if it does or not since Linden Labs gives no indication of that except for the fact that they refer to a PG sim. In which case they should have returned the broken sign of the Islam as well because otherwise an incredible stench of hypocrisis arises from the Linden Labs. Or it refers to Gualal...which is an M sim.
The vagueness of these emails along with the so wonderfully communicative Agent Linden are not in the least bit helpful...but we all know that by now.

What I really find interesting and what sooner or later may be the demise of SL are more situations like propagation of drug abuse in public, there are whole events for it. Prostitution - which is even more a problem, as well as gambling, because the possibility to make RL money on SL gambling and Prostitution form a problem that may have gone unnoticed.
Online Prostitution is prohibited in most US states if not in all, gambling is prohibited in quite a few. In TX you can not even call a horse track and place a bet, but I can go into SL and gamble my life away.
Can anyone see this situation - purely hypothetical:
Hubby finds wifey making RL money from prostitution in SL...hubby upset...best case scenario...big family discusssion..possibly a divorce....worst case scenario..hubby is a lawyer and sues Linden Labs for pimping basically....helping in the act of illegal prostitution.

The next thing is our so wonderfully formulated ToS....vague is maybe nice to a point....if it gets to be an oracle...its useless. Also if they are enforced on one level with some people..they ought to be enforced with everyone.
Has anyone ever noticed this little thing about PG sims?

No use of intense strong language or expletives in chat/IM.

IM....well that would mean IM's are or would have to be monitored by Lindens in PG sims.

oh does anyone know a Ariana Rubio....not that I care about ratings..I actually find them incredibly infantile....but she just neg rated me and for some weird reason.....that name just rings odd.....

(Post edited. Posting of In world or out of world communications isn't allowed)

.........ok lets all set view distance to 512 meters and look around a bit.....

Az I understand your frustration but I don't think it is very wise to be posting IM history (or email) on the forums, we have been warned about that , and considering that the Linden did you a "favor" by explaining to you what the problem is... well I think you should of kept it to yourself...

well not post IM's..ok...but monitoring them would be ok....

I think this fact of not having mature contnent visible from a PG sim is something most..as was I...are not aware of..and before anyone else gets some difuse note saying you violated ToS...I think it is important to post this.

Now if my view distance is set to 256 meters and I stand at the border of a PG sim...then the content at the CENTER of the M sim is visible....so basiccally no mature content can be visible in a M sin unless it is surrounded by M sims...

true. should they limit our draw distances to 64 meters, do away with sim ratings and let us function in a purely adult environment, or cancel the M rating and force us all to live in a PG world?

you might well get pinged for posting colin's reply because now everybody will want the same consideration. are they now gonna revise their policy and start telling people what the suspensions are for, or are they just gonna do that for certain people and can i be one of them?

*edited to add that i ask that last question rhetorically for all the population. it's not a personal request or attack or whatever the hell people interpret everything posted in the forum to be. ha ha i'll probably get yelled at for presuming to speak for people.

Yeah, now I wanna be told when I do something bad too! Not because I am so innocent, but because the list is so long. And burning crosses isn't meant to be an insult to "Christians" *clears throat*.