I DARE YOU to produce ONE concrete example of a person stifling innovation. I dare you.
... without naming names *grin*
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Kris Ritter
paradoxical embolism
Join date: 31 Oct 2003
Posts: 6,627
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03-30-2005 03:39
... without naming names *grin* |
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Baba Yamamoto
baba@slinked.net
Join date: 26 May 2003
Posts: 1,024
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03-30-2005 03:57
One time a guy named.. lets call him hilip inden said i couldnt do this one thing where i did that thing you know ? With the thing! Anyway, I was very upset by this stifilation of my innovativishness so I quit playing. I never went back to SL ;0
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blaze Spinnaker
1/2 Serious
Join date: 12 Aug 2004
Posts: 5,898
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03-30-2005 04:26
So please, enough about this counter-innovation accusations. I DARE YOU to produce ONE concrete example of a person stifling innovation. I dare you. Ahah, oh you just need to go to the class events. So called "Live Help" / mentors / instructors of the month deliver all sorts of hilarious statements about the nature of SL. Unfortunately, their relationship with Lindens sanctions this hilarity. I've seen a lot of other twisted examples of members making proclamations about various things based on their relationship with particular Lindens. And I've seen a lot of people believing them. _____________________
Taken from The last paragraph on pg. 16 of Cory Ondrejka's paper "Changing Realities: User Creation, Communication, and Innovation in Digital Worlds :
"User-created content takes the idea of leveraging player opinions a step further by allowing them to effectively prototype new ideas and features. Developers can then measure which new concepts most improve the products and incorporate them into the game in future patches." |
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Seth Kanahoe
political fugue artist
Join date: 30 Jan 2005
Posts: 1,220
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03-30-2005 04:29
FIC is when people attack various indidivuals who decide to express ideas that are contrarian to what you particularly want to hear. FIC is when ideas are expressed that are new and radical and different and ignored because they're different, not because they're wrong. FIC is when egos are stroked as a competitive advantage rather than adding a cool feature or a new bit of content. FIC is every single freaking witch hunt that people in these forums (myself included) have participated in, because it's easy to express an opinion that everyone else shares. FIC is when we agree with someone, not because we've carefully thought through what they said, but because we do not wish to risk their friendship. To argue that it doesn't exist is simply yet another example of FIC. It's like saying we're not human. It's like saying we don't make mistakes, we don't get petty, we don't lie and cheat at some point in our lives. The fact is, Prok and I should be ignored not because we claim something exists that doesn't, we should be ignored because we are stating the obvious and that everyone already knows about it. Tautology much? You haven't defined the characteristics of an "FIC". You've defined the characteristics of humanity. Clearly (at least to many of the rest of us), you and Prokofy aren't happy with how human beings think and behave. Clearly the crusade is not against a specific group who have committed specific crimes, but the general manner in which humans conduct their relations. By your reasoning, anyone who disagrees is (a) lying or deluded, and (b) a member of the FIC or one of its dupes. It's therefore impossible to disagree with you, which is, btw, one of the classic characteristics you and Prokofy attribute to the FIC. You've fallen into a circular trap with this one. |
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blaze Spinnaker
1/2 Serious
Join date: 12 Aug 2004
Posts: 5,898
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03-30-2005 04:52
Yes, it is a tautology. That's why I find these discussions kinda weird.
And anyone who disagrees with me simply disagrees with me. I'd be the last guy to attribute (ok maybe not the last, but I try! I try!) any particular characteristics to those who disagree with me. Though sometimes it's a little funny when you see who's doing the disagreeing! _____________________
Taken from The last paragraph on pg. 16 of Cory Ondrejka's paper "Changing Realities: User Creation, Communication, and Innovation in Digital Worlds :
"User-created content takes the idea of leveraging player opinions a step further by allowing them to effectively prototype new ideas and features. Developers can then measure which new concepts most improve the products and incorporate them into the game in future patches." |
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Maxx Monde
Registered User
Join date: 14 Nov 2003
Posts: 1,848
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03-30-2005 05:10
What I find amusing is it didn't exist (and only does now as a running gag) until you and Prok'n'Beans got all up-in-arms about it. You realize we're just stringing you along, right?
.....right? Well you do now  |
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Kyrah Abattoir
cruelty delight
Join date: 4 Jun 2004
Posts: 2,786
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03-30-2005 05:15
you know that i had an exellent dinner yestarday with Phillip and Jeff Linden? we talked about 1.7 and they asked my advice.
honestly ... its not very serious this FIC legend right? _____________________
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Hiro Pendragon
bye bye f0rums!
Join date: 22 Jan 2004
Posts: 5,905
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03-30-2005 05:21
Ahah, oh you just need to go to the class events. So called "Live Help" / mentors / instructors of the month deliver all sorts of hilarious statements about the nature of SL. Okay, so volunteers who spend time helping newbies learn how to use SL and build in SL are stifling innovation? That's a ridiculous self-contradiction. Unfortunately, their relationship with Lindens sanctions this hilarity. I've seen a lot of other twisted examples of members making proclamations about various things based on their relationship with particular Lindens. Right. So when are you getting to the concrete example? You're all talk, blaze. _____________________
Hiro Pendragon
------------------ http://www.involve3d.com - Involve - Metaverse / Emerging Media Studio Visit my SL blog: http://secondtense.blogspot.com |
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blaze Spinnaker
1/2 Serious
Join date: 12 Aug 2004
Posts: 5,898
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03-30-2005 05:29
Well, once a so called mentor (several months ago) lambasted me for putting a 5% rake on a poker game I was building.
It seriously demotivated me as I couldn't think of a way to make it profitable without having a rake. As it turns out, he was completely wrong. Lots of poker games have been built with a rake and no problem. There are tonnes of more examples. _____________________
Taken from The last paragraph on pg. 16 of Cory Ondrejka's paper "Changing Realities: User Creation, Communication, and Innovation in Digital Worlds :
"User-created content takes the idea of leveraging player opinions a step further by allowing them to effectively prototype new ideas and features. Developers can then measure which new concepts most improve the products and incorporate them into the game in future patches." |
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Hiro Pendragon
bye bye f0rums!
Join date: 22 Jan 2004
Posts: 5,905
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03-30-2005 05:33
Well, once a so called mentor (several months ago) lambasted me for putting a 5% rake on a poker game I was building. It seriously demotivated me as I couldn't think of a way to make it profitable without having a rake. As it turns out, he was completely wrong. Lots of poker games have been built with a rake and no problem. There are tonnes of more examples. Was it acting as a mentor or as a personal opinion. Where was he working in collusion with others as you've alleged the FIC does? Did you have the opportunity to ignore / mute him and do what you wanted anyway? This hardly seems like any substantial repression. Care to try again? _____________________
Hiro Pendragon
------------------ http://www.involve3d.com - Involve - Metaverse / Emerging Media Studio Visit my SL blog: http://secondtense.blogspot.com |
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blaze Spinnaker
1/2 Serious
Join date: 12 Aug 2004
Posts: 5,898
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03-30-2005 05:39
Well, we have to agree to disagree on the value of the example.
At the time I had been in SL for about a month and the fact that he said he was a mentor was all that really mattered me. Even if he was wrong, I thought to myself, do I really want to waste all this effort on something senior people think is a bad idea? But, I guess I'm just stupid and naive that way. Fortunately, I know a little better now. _____________________
Taken from The last paragraph on pg. 16 of Cory Ondrejka's paper "Changing Realities: User Creation, Communication, and Innovation in Digital Worlds :
"User-created content takes the idea of leveraging player opinions a step further by allowing them to effectively prototype new ideas and features. Developers can then measure which new concepts most improve the products and incorporate them into the game in future patches." |
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Hiro Pendragon
bye bye f0rums!
Join date: 22 Jan 2004
Posts: 5,905
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03-30-2005 05:42
Well, we have to agree to disagree on the value of the example. At the time I had been in SL for about a month and the fact that he said he was a mentor was all that really mattered me. Even if he was wrong, I thought to myself, do I really want to waste all this effort on something senior people think is a bad idea? But, I guess I'm just stupid and naive that way. Fortunately, I know a little better now. All that aside, gambling games in SL have proven to be: (a) buggy (b) preying on folks with a gambling problem (c) doomed on the horizon because it is illegal because of the unregulated nature. _____________________
Hiro Pendragon
------------------ http://www.involve3d.com - Involve - Metaverse / Emerging Media Studio Visit my SL blog: http://secondtense.blogspot.com |
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blaze Spinnaker
1/2 Serious
Join date: 12 Aug 2004
Posts: 5,898
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03-30-2005 05:43
Well, that's an interesting debate. Personally, I like playing poker in SL more than I like playing via the web.
Also, Mr. Fairplay's tables are rock solid. Another example is Land Developing. I posted quite a bit about Land Developing, and once again, so called "senior" people were all over it as just another attempt to land baron. At the time I had been really sincere and was thinking of putting a lot of effort into trying various things to improve the value of the land instead of just buying low selling high. But, I got attacked from all angles. As it turns out, once again, they were wrong. Well, I think they were wrong. They certainly weren't helping anyone by attacking me personally. Fortunately, that particular element has seem to up and left SL. _____________________
Taken from The last paragraph on pg. 16 of Cory Ondrejka's paper "Changing Realities: User Creation, Communication, and Innovation in Digital Worlds :
"User-created content takes the idea of leveraging player opinions a step further by allowing them to effectively prototype new ideas and features. Developers can then measure which new concepts most improve the products and incorporate them into the game in future patches." |
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blaze Spinnaker
1/2 Serious
Join date: 12 Aug 2004
Posts: 5,898
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03-30-2005 05:51
Another example would be the posting of Catherine Cotton. I always enjoyed seeing some sincere ideas (rather than a constant barage of cynicism and sarcasm) about what SL should be.
She got attacked to the point where she up and left SL. She comes back in now and then, but not much. We're all poorer because of it. And probably among the worst, was how many people ganged up on Ulrika. Clearly one of the most innovative and truly fascinating intellects (if a bit misguided) in SL. But no, she was trying to do something the charter member land holding FIC was all freaked out about, so it was once again time to get out the pitchforks. The examples are truly endless. Prok seems to be a pretty tough guy, so I think he'll last. But, in the meanwhile, I'll certainly lend him my help because I think SL losing him would be tragic. _____________________
Taken from The last paragraph on pg. 16 of Cory Ondrejka's paper "Changing Realities: User Creation, Communication, and Innovation in Digital Worlds :
"User-created content takes the idea of leveraging player opinions a step further by allowing them to effectively prototype new ideas and features. Developers can then measure which new concepts most improve the products and incorporate them into the game in future patches." |
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Hiro Pendragon
bye bye f0rums!
Join date: 22 Jan 2004
Posts: 5,905
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03-30-2005 05:53
Well, that's an interesting debate. Personally, I like playing poker in SL more than I like playing via the web. Also, Mr. Fairplay's tables are rock solid. And is the only tables I've ever heard that are both widely publicized and without an "Oops, this is broken" type post. And look, another rich developer who is bringing you joy to SL. Another example is Land Developing. I posted quite a bit about Land Developing, and once again, so called "senior" people were all over it as just another attempt to land baron. Fortunately, that particular element has seem to up and left SL. And you'll also notes the number of land barons are few and are criticized by an overwhelming majority of members. Public response, including many older members, led to a publicizing of available land. If you wish to narrow the scope of "FIC" to a minority of people not representing oldbies / richer players as a whole, I'll accept, of course. _____________________
Hiro Pendragon
------------------ http://www.involve3d.com - Involve - Metaverse / Emerging Media Studio Visit my SL blog: http://secondtense.blogspot.com |
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blaze Spinnaker
1/2 Serious
Join date: 12 Aug 2004
Posts: 5,898
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03-30-2005 05:58
Ahaah, the funny thing about the FIC is that a lot of people who are in it I don't even consider to be in it most of the time. Generally they are reasonable people, but they still feel the need to defend the status quo and ignore ideas that might invalidate their own.
There is a great quote someone around here has in there signature, let me see if I can google it.. Here it is.. The best things and best people rise out of their separateness; I'm against a homogenized society because I want the cream to rise. _____________________
Taken from The last paragraph on pg. 16 of Cory Ondrejka's paper "Changing Realities: User Creation, Communication, and Innovation in Digital Worlds :
"User-created content takes the idea of leveraging player opinions a step further by allowing them to effectively prototype new ideas and features. Developers can then measure which new concepts most improve the products and incorporate them into the game in future patches." |
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Ghoti Nyak
καλλιστι
Join date: 7 Aug 2004
Posts: 2,078
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03-30-2005 06:17
Am I the only person who really doesn't care if there's an FIC or not? Nope, I'm with ya. -Ghoti _____________________
"Sometimes I believe that this less material life is our truer life, and that our vain presence on the terraqueous globe is itself the secondary or merely virtual phenomenon." ~ H.P. Lovecraft
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Ferren Xia
Registered User
Join date: 18 Feb 2005
Posts: 77
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03-30-2005 06:23
Quote: Am I the only person who really doesn't care if there's an FIC or not? Nope, I'm with ya. -Ghoti I am too. It has been a mildly amusing forum joke, and I thank all participants for that. I think it has run its course now, and needs to be replaced by something providing fresh entertainment value. |
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Merwan Marker
Booring...
Join date: 28 Jan 2004
Posts: 4,706
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03-30-2005 06:24
ah FIC as in am i? anyone know?
(Tag line poll gone) [Edited to urge everyone to forgot FIC - cause all that really matters are the SLICKs! See link below]  _____________________
Don't Worry, Be Happy - Meher Baba
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Nolan Nash
Frischer Frosch
Join date: 15 May 2003
Posts: 7,141
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03-30-2005 06:24
Well, once a so called mentor (several months ago) lambasted me for putting a 5% rake on a poker game I was building. It seriously demotivated me as I couldn't think of a way to make it profitable without having a rake. As it turns out, he was completely wrong. Lots of poker games have been built with a rake and no problem. There are tonnes of more examples. Amazing that you can get so demotivated by one person's opinion, yet many people don't seem to slow your motivation at all on the forums. Wild. _____________________
“Time's fun when you're having flies.” ~Kermit
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Nolan Nash
Frischer Frosch
Join date: 15 May 2003
Posts: 7,141
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03-30-2005 06:28
Another example would be the posting of Catherine Cotton. I always enjoyed seeing some sincere ideas (rather than a constant barage of cynicism and sarcasm) about what SL should be. She got attacked to the point where she up and left SL. She comes back in now and then, but not much. We're all poorer because of it. And probably among the worst, was how many people ganged up on Ulrika. Clearly one of the most innovative and truly fascinating intellects (if a bit misguided) in SL. But no, she was trying to do something the charter member land holding FIC was all freaked out about, so it was once again time to get out the pitchforks. The examples are truly endless. Prok seems to be a pretty tough guy, so I think he'll last. But, in the meanwhile, I'll certainly lend him my help because I think SL losing him would be tragic. You just listed a group of people who thought SL should conform to their ideals. Ulrika went on to found a city state, what have you done besides try to seperate people along some supposed class lines? _____________________
“Time's fun when you're having flies.” ~Kermit
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Artillo Fredericks
Friendly Orange Demon
Join date: 1 Jun 2004
Posts: 1,327
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03-30-2005 06:31
OMG how did this thread get turned into a serious debate??? :: looks at blake ::
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"I, for one, am thouroughly entertained by the mass freakout." - Nephilaine Protagonist
--== www.artillodesign.com ==-- |
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Merwan Marker
Booring...
Join date: 28 Jan 2004
Posts: 4,706
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03-30-2005 06:31
Well, once a so called mentor (several months ago) lambasted me for putting a 5% rake on a poker game I was building. It seriously demotivated me as I couldn't think of a way to make it profitable without having a rake. As it turns out, he was completely wrong. Lots of poker games have been built with a rake and no problem. There are tonnes of more examples. Yeah blaze - i remember when you were very vocal about us charging 10% commissions at SLEx...Didn't de-motivate at all...Consider others input, but in the end do what you think is right regardless of FIC or me or anyone else. _____________________
Don't Worry, Be Happy - Meher Baba
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Willow Zander
Having Blahgasms
Join date: 22 May 2004
Posts: 9,935
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03-30-2005 06:33
*STOP PRESS*
It was today decided, by Kris and myself I am NOT Feted I am FEETED IDEALISTIC CUTIE!!!! Well she wanted Feeted something Clogs...but I like Cutie better  _____________________
*I'm not ready for the world outside...I keep pretending, but I just can't hide...* <3 Giddeon's <3 |
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Nolan Nash
Frischer Frosch
Join date: 15 May 2003
Posts: 7,141
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03-30-2005 06:38
Yeah blaze - i remember when you were very vocal about us charging 10% commissions at SLEx...Didn't de-motivate at all...Consider others input, but in the end do what you think is right regardless of FIC or me or anyone else. It's just vague, endless, circular logic Merwan, with no real solutions for supposed (imagined in my mind) problems other than, "we should zone, and I am squelched". A hollow tree. Blaze, I will bet you 1000L$ that your prediction that SL won't make it six more months is wrong. _____________________
“Time's fun when you're having flies.” ~Kermit
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