THe FIC
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Torley Linden
Enlightenment!
Join date: 15 Sep 2004
Posts: 16,530
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03-29-2005 16:23
From: Jonquille Noir Am I the only person who really doesn't care if there's an FIC or not?
I don't care either Jon. I can't relate, and apart from boredom at the redundancy and sadness at the negativity, I don't really have any feelings about this. I'm in line with Pathfinder's earlier post on the Forums, and that's the official Linden take on it so yeah. On a humorous note, maybe that's because I'm SLuminati.  nine
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Forseti Svarog
ESC
Join date: 2 Nov 2004
Posts: 1,730
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03-29-2005 16:30
From: Jonquille Noir Am I the only person who really doesn't care if there's an FIC or not? no jonquille, you are not the only one. I don't argue back because i think i'm going to convince the conspiracy theorists of anything -- i argue because i think it is important to have a public record that many of us think the conspiracy theorists are spouting silliness.
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Siggy Romulus
DILLIGAF
Join date: 22 Sep 2003
Posts: 5,711
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03-29-2005 17:04
My fave was "Pathfinder Linden is new"
How do you know this? Many lindens are promoted from within Second Life - unless of course Prokofy is privy to some secret Linden info.... but we all know that info is given to the teckiewikiwaky frumpyinnercorps.....
Actually I find the whole thing rather funny and tedious at the same time - but I still can't get the image of King Lear screaming against the storm whenever I read one of those bazzillion line posts.
If anyone is going to slap a lable on me, I prefer my Wu Tang name: Lazy Ass Destroyer..
So come on, why be a FIC when you can be a LAD?
Siggy.
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The Second Life forums are living proof as to why it's illegal for people to have sex with farm animals. From: Jesse Linden I, for one, am highly un-helped by this thread
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blaze Spinnaker
1/2 Serious
Join date: 12 Aug 2004
Posts: 5,898
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03-29-2005 17:15
conspiracy: a group of conspirators banded together to achieve some harmful or illegal purpose
I suggest we all use dictionaries before we use big words, otherwise we're going to upset one another about assuming things that no one is assuming.
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Taken from The last paragraph on pg. 16 of Cory Ondrejka's paper " Changing Realities: User Creation, Communication, and Innovation in Digital Worlds : " User-created content takes the idea of leveraging player opinions a step further by allowing them to effectively prototype new ideas and features. Developers can then measure which new concepts most improve the products and incorporate them into the game in future patches."
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Iridian Oz
Registered User
Join date: 9 Feb 2005
Posts: 141
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03-29-2005 17:17
From: blaze Spinnaker conspiracy: a group of conspirators banded together to achieve some harmful or illegal purpose
I suggest we all use dictionaries before we use big words, otherwise we're going to upset another about assuming things that no one is assuming. alarmist: a person who needlessly alarms or attempts to alarm others, as by inventing or spreading false or exaggerated rumors of impending danger or catastrophe.
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blaze Spinnaker
1/2 Serious
Join date: 12 Aug 2004
Posts: 5,898
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03-29-2005 17:21
I think the problem is that you're inferring alarm.
If someone suggested a feature in Feature Suggestions - would that be cause for alarm. No. It would be simply someone who wishes to see things a certain way.
There is no impending doom here.
There is eventual doom, but considering that 9/10 businesses fail and only a couple of MMOs out of dozens have ever really made it past the bell curve, this should not be considered 'alarmist'.
However, I agree - nothing impending. If I have implied that it is impending, I apologize, it was never my intention.
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Taken from The last paragraph on pg. 16 of Cory Ondrejka's paper " Changing Realities: User Creation, Communication, and Innovation in Digital Worlds : " User-created content takes the idea of leveraging player opinions a step further by allowing them to effectively prototype new ideas and features. Developers can then measure which new concepts most improve the products and incorporate them into the game in future patches."
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Bob Bravo
Registered User
Join date: 10 Jun 2004
Posts: 210
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03-29-2005 17:36
Could I buy a F. I. Core? I have $10L!
Of course if the Core is radioactive I will require a lead box too.
Bob Bravo "The Exaulted" <--- which I did buy!
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Bob Bravo
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Hiro Pendragon
bye bye f0rums!
Join date: 22 Jan 2004
Posts: 5,905
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03-29-2005 17:56
For the LAST TIME!!!! It's FRETTED INNER CHORD!!! *strums another power chord through a 40,000W amp BwaaaaooooowowwowowowowowowowowwwwooowwoowwrrrrrrrrrdddeeeeeeonnoowwowwwonooowwwwoowwwOOOWWWwwwwwwwreeeaaarrrrrrnnnnnnnnnnnnngwowowwowowowwowowowowowowowowowowowowowwowowowowowowowoyyeeeeooowwwwwnnwwowowowowowowwwwwwnn!!!
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Hiro Pendragon ------------------ http://www.involve3d.com - Involve - Metaverse / Emerging Media Studio
Visit my SL blog: http://secondtense.blogspot.com
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Nolan Nash
Frischer Frosch
Join date: 15 May 2003
Posts: 7,141
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03-29-2005 17:57
From: Hiro Pendragon For the LAST TIME!!!! It's FRETTED INNER CHORD!!! *strums another power chord through a 40,000W amp BwaaaaooooowowwowowowowowowowowwwwooowwoowwrrrrrrrrrdddeeeeeeonnoowwowwwonooowwwwoowwwOOOWWWwwwwwwwreeeaaarrrrrrnnnnnnnnnnnnngwowowwowowowwowowowowowowowowowowowowowwowowowowowowowoyyeeeeooowwwwwnnwwowowowowowowwwwwwnn!!! Are you creating porno theme songs now Hiro? 
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“Time's fun when you're having flies.” ~Kermit
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Marcos Fonzarelli
You are not Marcos
Join date: 26 Feb 2004
Posts: 748
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03-29-2005 18:57
No, those usually go something like "bowm chick-a bowm bowmm"
And um.... never mind.
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Ingrid Ingersoll
Archived
Join date: 10 Aug 2004
Posts: 4,601
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03-29-2005 19:02
****L@@K**** Sour Grapes MIB!
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Devlin Gallant
Thought Police
Join date: 18 Jun 2003
Posts: 5,948
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03-30-2005 00:28
From: David Valentino I have to disagree. The FIC does exist. Shall I name names? You've seen them, strutting around, full of themselves. Certain FIC are merely the oldest of residence, while others are close-knit families that live in their towers and look down at us scornfully. Still others, while not the first breed, have become FIC by achievements, almost always aided by Lindens on thier payroll, that have gotten unfair publicity and attention.
And the last type of FIC, are the socializers that seem to know everyone and are always saying something so clever and witty, tossing around humor and wisdom like their shit don't stink.
But added together, with thier secret communications and midnight meetings, they do indeed plot and control many of Second Lifes social, political and technical directions.
Even Philip answers the red phone when it rings. The direct line to his command center, that only the FIC members are privy to.
Oh ye newbs...if you don't think the FIC is watching and judging, then you are woefully naive.
The Feted (or Fetid) Inner Core, bravely exposed by Prokofy's words, does indeed exist. They are alive and well within the luxurious and hidden VIP lounges of SL. And they are watching..waiting..like bloated spiders in their webs. Watch out lest you become the entangled fly!
Edited: David Valentino has been suspended indefinitely, and is unavailable for future communications as of now. *Looks down on David scornfully* 
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I LIKE children, I've just never been able to finish a whole one.
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Devlin Gallant
Thought Police
Join date: 18 Jun 2003
Posts: 5,948
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03-30-2005 00:35
From: Prokofy Neva Pathfinder says the FIC doesn't exist. We have it quoted here in his posts. I goggle my eyes when I read that. Pathfinder is new. He will come to this awareness in time. I hope the awareness is not accompanied by any harsh experiences. But come it will.
People say the FIC is Prokofy's fevered imagination. I didn't invent it, I described it. The debate is not over whether it exists, and not over whether it hobbles the game, but whether I have described it accurately, and whether it does in fact hobble the game in the way I say. I have not changed from my initial impresses of three or six months ago in this regard, and I have only amassed numerous anecdotal experiences reinforcing this perception, notwithstanding my special hugzy teddy bear from that Linden. (This special hugzy bear will be displayed in Tibet soon so anybody can come and see him and negrate me or scream that I am feted LOL).
Ingrid, you saw all that eye candy and shiny stuff, you wanted to make it yourself, and spent more money looking at it and making it, understood. So your instinct was to join the FIC. From where I sit, my instinct was to chronicle the horrors of the FIC, not join it. And it is not just because I'm a hopeless dweeb who can't fly straight or link prims even already put together for him by other people -- even if that is true. It's because my sense of justice is keen, and my experiences of injustice ample, and so I will go on crying out about this.
I wish I had a dollar for every time I heard that story about the realtor (or the house-buyer or the hotel guest, it changes) who comes to the village and brings his problems and perceptions with him. I'd have LOTS of dollars! This story is always told by Ol' Tex, in his most earnest tone of voice, with a twanging guitar string or two accompanying it, round the campfire, home, home on the range, where the deer and the buffalo roam, where never is heard a discouraging word. It speaks to an ardent belief in homespin quaint wisdom and reworked villagey versions of the old Biblical adage about taking the log out of your own eye so you can see the mote (speck) in your neighbour's.
But...what if there was a different story? What if the visitor comes to the small village, and find that they are smug, insular, self-referential, besotted, feted, sitting on forever-subsidized 4096 acre plots of land, making state-socialist clone builds, getting state waivors on tier or purchase price, getting state developer awards, etc. etc. etc. What if the village you came to was not the homespun American village on the prairie with a free press, a village dissident (doubling as the town drunk some nights), a whore with a heart of gold, a noble native, the handsome stranger who brings justice, a crooked sherriff who has a moment of conscience, or whatever other cliches you can fetch up that become the voice of the people to correct evil? What if instead, the village was a tightly knit circle celebrating big builds by top architects, top designer jewerly, Linden subsidies, right-of-way for the scripterati -- well, everything we see in SL? What if it was just a very, very VERY different kind of village where it wasn't that you brought your nasty perceptions with you (from RL, from TSO) but that they *really exist* because they *really are a problem*!!! Huh, what if THAT were the case!
Everyone wants to say to me that I go about this all wrong, that I shouldn't be so pointed or sharp, that I shouldn't mix metaphors or causes, that I should pick my battles, that I should stop writing such long posts, that I should stop shooting myself in the foot -- believe me, I've heard it all, and taken a lot of condescending and paternalistic crap from a lot of people. But by God, even if I didn't do it in a fashion you find comfortable, I got you to think about the central core of trouble in this game: people who refuse to give up the idea, like this Linden clone mall developer, that he should pick the content and the people who showcase, not the free open market, that he should use his Linden subsidies for a perch, that people who enable the company to have flashy things on the website get to dictate the game's technology and direction. Why? You can't say you want to be the WWW of virtual worlds and create a virtual conservative, closeknit, self-perpetuating village suspicious of outsiders!
When I first began these debates, the expression of disbelief I would most often hear would be like this "You can't attack my friend because she's my friend, even if she's wrong" or "You can't attack that person, they make jewelry and you don't make jewelry so you are shit". They couldn't see that this very issue is the problem.
People don't understand why I don't want to be celebratory of a little village where little craftsmen get to make and trade their little bling, oohing and ahing and taking pictures of each other in their bling all the while. It's because I want SL to become something much bigger than that, and it can't if it is merely a nation of craftsmen. It's just not enough. It's just not enough if it is a nation of shopkeepers. Not in the modern world. It has to be a nation of craftsmen, shopkeepers, shoppers, and many other kinds of people in between, all with equality, and all with respect. Wow, Prok really went off the deep end this time!
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I LIKE children, I've just never been able to finish a whole one.
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Devlin Gallant
Thought Police
Join date: 18 Jun 2003
Posts: 5,948
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03-30-2005 00:38
From: blaze Spinnaker conspiracy: a group of conspirators banded together to achieve some harmful or illegal purpose
I suggest we all use dictionaries before we use big words, otherwise we're going to upset one another about assuming things that no one is assuming. I assume that you assume WAAAAAAY too much!
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I LIKE children, I've just never been able to finish a whole one.
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blaze Spinnaker
1/2 Serious
Join date: 12 Aug 2004
Posts: 5,898
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03-30-2005 00:40
Yes, well you know what they say about assumptions..
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Taken from The last paragraph on pg. 16 of Cory Ondrejka's paper " Changing Realities: User Creation, Communication, and Innovation in Digital Worlds : " User-created content takes the idea of leveraging player opinions a step further by allowing them to effectively prototype new ideas and features. Developers can then measure which new concepts most improve the products and incorporate them into the game in future patches."
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Athel Richelieu
Registered User
Join date: 7 Jul 2004
Posts: 203
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03-30-2005 00:47
Now we just have to name the Fetid Inner Whores. You know who you are....
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blaze Spinnaker
1/2 Serious
Join date: 12 Aug 2004
Posts: 5,898
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03-30-2005 00:50
The problem is that you're all assuming that the FIC is a conscious, specific entity with a clear direction and explicit understandings. I guess that idea is simple to understand, but unfortunately.. you're wrong.
FIC is when people attack various indidivuals who decide to express ideas that are contrarian to what you particularly want to hear.
FIC is when ideas are expressed that are new and radical and different and ignored because they're different, not because they're wrong.
FIC is when egos are stroked as a competitive advantage rather than adding a cool feature or a new bit of content.
FIC is every single freaking witch hunt that people in these forums (myself included) have participated in, because it's easy to express an opinion that everyone else shares.
FIC is when we agree with someone, not because we've carefully thought through what they said, but because we do not wish to risk their friendship.
To argue that it doesn't exist is simply yet another example of FIC. It's like saying we're not human. It's like saying we don't make mistakes, we don't get petty, we don't lie and cheat at some point in our lives.
The fact is, Prok and I should be ignored not because we claim something exists that doesn't, we should be ignored because we are stating the obvious and that everyone already knows about it.
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Taken from The last paragraph on pg. 16 of Cory Ondrejka's paper " Changing Realities: User Creation, Communication, and Innovation in Digital Worlds : " User-created content takes the idea of leveraging player opinions a step further by allowing them to effectively prototype new ideas and features. Developers can then measure which new concepts most improve the products and incorporate them into the game in future patches."
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Devlin Gallant
Thought Police
Join date: 18 Jun 2003
Posts: 5,948
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03-30-2005 00:58
My FIC is stronger than YOUR FIC! 
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I LIKE children, I've just never been able to finish a whole one.
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Hiro Pendragon
bye bye f0rums!
Join date: 22 Jan 2004
Posts: 5,905
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03-30-2005 01:40
From: blaze Spinnaker The fact is, Prok and I should be ignored
Thanks.
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Hiro Pendragon ------------------ http://www.involve3d.com - Involve - Metaverse / Emerging Media Studio
Visit my SL blog: http://secondtense.blogspot.com
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blaze Spinnaker
1/2 Serious
Join date: 12 Aug 2004
Posts: 5,898
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03-30-2005 02:08
Hiro, I will take this post of yours into account when reading any future posts and ideas you may propose.
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Taken from The last paragraph on pg. 16 of Cory Ondrejka's paper " Changing Realities: User Creation, Communication, and Innovation in Digital Worlds : " User-created content takes the idea of leveraging player opinions a step further by allowing them to effectively prototype new ideas and features. Developers can then measure which new concepts most improve the products and incorporate them into the game in future patches."
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Nolan Nash
Frischer Frosch
Join date: 15 May 2003
Posts: 7,141
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03-30-2005 02:29
blaze, The broader base you are wanting for has brought about the "entertainment" and "dog's breakfast" feel you seem to be experiencing. You are unsatisfied with the size of SL yet you offer no real answers to this perceived malaise that you are diagnosing SL with. You do not realize that the very thing you are calling for, more subscribers, will water SL down more. I don't have a problem with that myself, to a point. You apparently do ("dogs breakfast"  , yet seem to be misidentifyng the source. What is it you want LL to do specifically? You can moan about the "FIC" until the end of time, what is it you really want? What are the key steps you feel LL should take to correct the problems you perceive? Is your issue with SLers or LL? If it's with LL, which is what I tend to believe, then hassle them. Write them emails. Do feature suggestions. Point out technical in the tech section. Beating on the same drum, with no real proof nor solutions, month after month, is not going to get you anywhere but misunderstood, and not taken seriously.
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“Time's fun when you're having flies.” ~Kermit
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blaze Spinnaker
1/2 Serious
Join date: 12 Aug 2004
Posts: 5,898
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03-30-2005 02:40
From: someone The broader base you are wanting for has brought about the "entertainment" and "dog's breakfast" feel you seem to be experiencing. You are unsatisfied with the size of SL yet you offer no real answers to this perceived malaise that you are diagnosing SL with. You do not realize that the very thing you are calling for, more subscribers, will water SL down more. I don't have a problem with that myself, to a point. You apparently do ("dogs breakfast"  yet seem to be misidentifyng the source. What is it you want LL to do specifically? No, not at all. In fact, I think more amateur content designers can do wonders for SL. I am a huge fan of wikipedia, for example. I just think the tools for collaboration need to be improved. Better zoning, shared inventory folders for group builds, that sort of thing. From: someone You can moan about the "FIC" until the end of time, what is it you really want? What are the key steps you feel LL should take to correct the problems you perceive? Is your issue with SLers or LL? If it's with LL, which is what I tend to believe, then hassle them. Write them emails. Do feature suggestions. Point out technical in the tech section. Beating on the same drum, with no real proof nor solutions, month after month, is not going to get you anywhere but misunderstood, and not taken seriously.
Well, I don't need proof that people are petty and human, and I shouldn't need proof that people are going to tend words elitism. The argument shouldn't be .. does FIC exist, but rather, do we have processes in place to avoid FIC? Are we appropiately avoiding FIC? Most cases, I think so. Forum moderation has generally been very anti-FIC. However, in SL there have been a couple of instances that I feel were pretty pointlessly FIC. Events that were not in event calendars, but by invite only, that sort of thing. To be honest, though, I don't think it's a big problem. I think it's a problem worth mentioning but I really only defend the point because people are arguing it doesn't exist, which is so obviously not the case. I find it funny that people aren't saying over and over again - "yeah we know FIC is a problem, no kidding". Instead they are saying, "you're hallucinating", which obviously I feel is wrong.
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Taken from The last paragraph on pg. 16 of Cory Ondrejka's paper " Changing Realities: User Creation, Communication, and Innovation in Digital Worlds : " User-created content takes the idea of leveraging player opinions a step further by allowing them to effectively prototype new ideas and features. Developers can then measure which new concepts most improve the products and incorporate them into the game in future patches."
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Baba Yamamoto
baba@slinked.net
Join date: 26 May 2003
Posts: 1,024
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03-30-2005 02:50
From: blaze Spinnaker
However, in SL there have been a couple of instances that I feel were pretty pointlessly FIC. Events that were not in event calendars, but by invite only, that sort of thing.
To be honest, though, I don't think it's a big problem. I think it's a problem worth mentioning but I really only defend the point because people are arguing it doesn't exist, which is so obviously not the case.
I find it funny that people aren't saying over and over again - "yeah we know FIC is a problem, no kidding". Instead they are saying, "you're hallucinating", which obviously I feel is wrong.
The FIC exists... It exists as friendships and alliances between people who have nothing to do with you. They don't care about you or your thoughts about them. They are people living their lives without your support or guidence. What I find funny is that you would call a gathering that is not in the events calendar FIC. It doesn't take an Inner Core, Feted or otherwise, to have friends who you would like to have over to your place.. It's just the normal day to day kind of thing that goes on all over the world in and out of Second Life. I've never posted an event to the calendar, but i've had friends over to my place for a little of this and that. I did not realize I had broken that unspoken rule.
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Nolan Nash
Frischer Frosch
Join date: 15 May 2003
Posts: 7,141
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03-30-2005 03:05
From: blaze Spinnaker No, not at all. In fact, I think more amateur content designers can do wonders for SL. I am a huge fan of wikipedia, for example. Your "dog's breakfast" thread talks about amateur hodgepodge as if it were a problem. Which is it and what solution are you proposing? Indoctrinating newbies into zoned collectives? I am a bit confused here. From: blaze Spinnaker I just think the tools for collaboration need to be improved. Better zoning, shared inventory folders for group builds, that sort of thing. Shared inventory for group I like. "Better zoning" is a bit vague. I want street level examples of how we could zone effectively. I am all for zoning as long as areas remain that are not zoned. From: blaze Spinnaker Well, I don't need proof that people are petty and human, and I shouldn't need proof that people are going to tend words elitism. The argument shouldn't be .. does FIC exist, but rather, do we have processes in place to avoid FIC? Are we appropiately avoiding FIC? I see this as abject cynicism. Of course we all can be buttholes from time to time. That doesn't mean it's a chronic disease? I see it as acute. When folks try to disseminate it as a pervasive condition my ears perk. From: blaze Spinnaker Most cases, I think so. Forum moderation has generally been very anti-FIC. I don't think forum moderation is particulary anti-anyone. People who go over the line that LL has set are dealt with. From: blaze Spinnaker However, in SL there have been a couple of instances that I feel were pretty pointlessly FIC. Events that were not in event calendars, but by invite only, that sort of thing. Please elaborate. Do you mean Linden hosted events? From: blaze Spinnaker To be honest, though, I don't think it's a big problem. I think it's a problem worth mentioning but I really only defend the point because people are arguing it doesn't exist, which is so obviously not the case. If you don't think it's a big problem, why all the threads and posts about it? It isn't so much that a "FIC" doesnt exist. It's more who do you want to supply all those new players you want? Not everyone can be a supplier, and that disparity increases exponentially with the size of a population. Are you against Sears and JC Penney in RL? Without K-Mart, Target, Macy's, Nordstroms, etc, where would we be? At a trading post? Again, do you want collectives? From: blaze Spinnaker I find it funny that people aren't saying over and over again - "yeah we know FIC is a problem, no kidding". Instead they are saying, "you're hallucinating", which obviously I feel is wrong. It's not so much you are hallucinating, it's just that you are overstating and exagerrating the obvious while doing a poor job of illustrating why it is really an impediment to SL.
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“Time's fun when you're having flies.” ~Kermit
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Hiro Pendragon
bye bye f0rums!
Join date: 22 Jan 2004
Posts: 5,905
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03-30-2005 03:31
Alright, Blaze. I'm going to say this once, listen carefully.
Your definition of "FIC" is so vague and flexibile that it fits nearly any player who has an old account and/or is popular and/or has a business.
If not for talented individuals in SL, there would be no cool content, and SL would be dead. That said, there are lots and lots of talented individuals in SL. The FIC are all around you, blaze. They are newbies who come up with great ideas and set great products into the game and make a decent buck. They are old players who have seen SL grow through Beta, who have been an integral part of testing and have an excellent perspective on where SL has come from. These people tend to have great suggestions for how LL can improve SL, and I can list dozens of such examples. They are entrepeneurs that have opened websites, product lines, businesses, ingenius scripts that have changed SL's capabilities. These people don't sell their secrets, but you know what? Other people are inspired and make competitive products and services. They are people who make stuff so cool that yeah, Lindens dig it. Every Linden I've talked to loves SL and they love it because of the content that's coming about and the people in it. Consequently, Lindens will indeed exercise the right to enjoy SL, too. They are folks who discuss serious issues on the forum, raise legitimate concerns about proposed changes so that the best possible upgrade can be enacted. They are people like you, blaze, who antagonize the hell out of others in the hopes to improve the game.
That's right, blaze. You're in the FIC. So am I. So are many of the posters in the forum, most oldbies, and just about anyone who cares enough about SL to take an active part in its growth. We all struggle in our own ways, and we all push this boulder of innovation upwards.
So please, enough about this counter-innovation accusations. I DARE YOU to produce ONE concrete example of a person stifling innovation. I dare you.
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Hiro Pendragon ------------------ http://www.involve3d.com - Involve - Metaverse / Emerging Media Studio
Visit my SL blog: http://secondtense.blogspot.com
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