SL has an unsustainable lack of community

Something needs to be done about this virtual world. I refrain from the use of the word "community" because I believe that it could only be used in its loosest form to describe Second Life.

There is only a low-level community apparently here. The vast majority of the population are extremely aloof, sitting behind their ban lines and security scripts and locked doors, taking the phrase "an Englishman's home is his castle" to whole new levels. Some others sit in little boxes at 500m pathetically wanking themselves off as their avatar moves woodenly around an animation ball, or play Bingo, or Tetris, or bloody Tringo all day, every day, at the expense of getting any meaningful conversation that doesn't revolve around "high rollers".

And the rest? They go and set their avatar dancing in a club. Or rather, an odd interpretation of a club as seen by some idiot from Hicksville, USA for whom the only experience of clubbing is seeing MTV once when they went to the drugstore. Real clubs don't all have "escorts available", or play "Hits Radio!" all day long. Neither do they look like great big fucking black boxes.

This world had such potential - and it still does. But while it is still so inescapably tied to real life money, while those with the disposable income in the real world wield the power over other people's Second Lives, while people still believe there is money to be made by raping virgin landscapes, ripping out the trees, flattening them and shoving black boxes full of bad pornography on them - while this is still the case, SL will be dire.

Charlotte Gillespie

****1/2
" great read! made my day!" - jauani wu, CEO Firechick Inc.

Any more for any more?

Then maybe we can actually start talking.

Aww, Char, there's a whole underground community of people who build according to an inner sense of esthetics, and appreciate those qualities when we see them in each other's builds. If you go exploring you'll usually find someone out there, building something worthwhile. I found two people today. Just let them know they're appreciated.

Well - you build anything you want here - so the problem is people's lack of imagination.

I think *some* of it may be the developer bonuses which give rl cash to those who have high traffic - this seems to favour lowest common denominator stuff.

Of course - no-one forces people to go to shitty events. They go to them cos they want to.

And I immediately think of;



But you're right, in a sense. There's a lot of great and a lot of pathetic. You've accurately identified the pathetic. The problem is the great doesn't come to you, you have to go get it.

So what's your plan?

Got one?

This is ironic coming from one of the worst people in SL socially.

I've had negative experiences that... well, I'll just say they are feeble and pale in the light of the overwhelming positive experiences I've had here in Second Life. I've named so many before as I've lived them, and I can name so many more. The lowest of valleys keep me stretching for the highest of peaks, and while I agree that things could get better -- heck, they ALWAYS can. I'm all for growth, whether it be friendlying up the Welcome Area or certain improvements to the SL code itself or even the little things like saying hello to your neighbor.

I've had some great fun playing Tringo with venerable oldbies (you know who you are!) who don't hold the prejudice against the game they stereotypically "should". I've seen cliches taken and twisted time and time again, not unlike how the Oracle from The Matrix confounded the viewer's expectations (thanks Bel!). I've gone clubbing a lot, and while I don't prefer every club, I have had my share of memorable nights out. And no, that doesn't include the club coming attack under firebombing GREEFER KIN or any such thing. Forests? We still have a lot of them, and more land to come. Some of my best friends rake in a lot of big bucks while STILL being creative, amazing people. Yup, you can have it both ways and more.

And speaking of friends, I've met so many incredibly exceptional people here whose company it is an honor to be in -- Lindens included of course. When I have a bad day getting bounced by security scripts run amok (THEY SUCK!!!), I just remind myself patiently of the promises the next day will hold.

My own approach is to humble myself, not have preconceived expectations of what I am about to experience, and to ask many questions and learn along the way. The blessing in disguise of knowing the bad means that you'll know the good all the better.

*group hug!*

Y'know, I'm not sure I agree with you, Charlotte.

Although I suppose it is a matter of perception. It's very hard to get a read on the population of SL in general because so many people pop in and out of the game within a matter of weeks.

I don't get people who place ban lines on their properties, or build malls, or build black box clubs. How boring! But if it gets their rocks off, then more power to 'em.

I think it is also why groups are so prevalent; if you stick to your group of people, then there, you have a sense of community. You have to keep track of the people you've met and grab hold of them.

On the other hand, it's just a shame that Santa Claus is dead.

there is a rather stout community here, granted it's made up of mainly "oldbies" to "midbies", but neither is it exclusive in privelage. basically, the community you're looking for is here.. but it's smaller than the majority.

once upon a time, SL felt like one BIG tight community.. now it's TOO big to be one community. now ther are different "cliques" and such..

those who you're searching for are those who care.. those of us who believe in the wonders of SL, not those who play piggy-bank. not to say making money is bad, but it's not my focus.. that's for sure. and Traxx is right, these type of people just naturally find each other.. go on a pilgrimage and search out what is inspirational, that which portrays the type of company you're looking for.. then meet the builders, thinkers, creators, etc..

but no, there will never be a small town feeling to SL anymore.. it's sincerely a world now, maybe a small one, but still.. it's a world with it's own cultures, sub-cultures, and more. you could no more expect a community feeling between all of the USA, but there's still the sense of MY home about it.. same with SL. if i travel to the east coast in-world, it's as foreign to me as going to another state in RL.. but it's still "where i come from".

not sure where i'm going with all of this anymore, so i'll stop...

...now.

Is that what they are doing up there ......

I was going to write a response similar to many points Cybin mentioned - especially that part.

I believe SL is a mirror of RL, including all of the social, cultural and sub-cultural dynamics that includes. It is impossible for a place as dynamic, open-ended and populated as SL to have a coherent singular community. People will always splinter off into their interest groups and cliques.. its just human nature.

As far as the dominance of lowest-common-denominator content - that's true in "real life" as well. And just like in the real world you have to dig in SL to get to the more meaningful, interesting stuff. It is indeed there... it just takes more effort to find.

Morgan Freeman keeps SL from being a digital utopia? Now I'm really confused.

I don't normally post in any section except the shopping one. But today I feel like making an exception. Why is it that so many people feel the right to judge how others spend their time in sl? What business is it of anyone's if I choose to play Tringo all day and nite if I'm having fun and socializing. Or perhaps I just love the atmostphere at a club. Heck maybe I even like the huge black boxes. Everyone pays their own monthly/land fees. And how is it that people together dancing, or playing Tringo are making the community so awful. It would seem that they would be bringing people together to socialize. I'm not saying that thats all I do. But I will admit I'm one of the people that doesn't create anything in Second Life. I don't build, I don't script, and I don't run a business. But I do shop and I socialize. I'm not taking this personal (ok maybe a little) but I think I'm just tried of people complaining about what others choose to do in their game. As for no community, this is one of the most friendly and generous communities I have ever been a part of. Yes some people suck, but welcome to the real world that will happen everywhere. Ok well thats probably the only time you'll hear me speak in the regular forums as I'm sure someone will come back say how stupid and wrong I am. But I just felt it needed to be said. Not everyone can be a creative genius why don't we try a little tolerance.

here here, and truth me told, most of the people complaining don't build/script either, i've observed this from a mere 1 day of secondlifing, where i've probably scripted and built more content than the majority of the people whining about the community.
Now, if you'll excuse me, i have to return to building the first fighter-minions of secondlife's very own Lich King.

Charlotte, are you talking about community? Or about creativity? Two different topics that can't really be conflated.

There's a lot of creativity here, mixed in among the trash. There's not an overall community, that's true. A lot of fragmentation instead.

To me (as a relatively new user) the problem with SL from a social aspect is that the world is too friggin' big. If you want to be in the same space as other people then basically you can hang out at the welcome area or at a club. OK, there are other places where you see clusters of users on the map, but we're mostly talking Tringo here aren't we?

I guess the SL world has to be big in order to give people the space to build stuff, which they were promised was a big feature of 'the game'. It also has to be big to try and spread people out because of the technical problems of having too many people in the same place. It does however have the consequence that there are no natural meeting places.

Just today I was getting a free ballon from Cubey Terra's place and he was actually there and said hi and I think that's magic when that happens - when you go somewhere that you like and the person who made it is actually there but it very rarely happens. There's all these towers and malls and there's never anyone around. SL is like a museum even at peak times.

So I would say, don't hate on the clubs - they might be lowest common denominator entertainment, but they're the only places that can attract large numbers of people at the same time. What we need is people who build stuff to try and come up with something that gives people a reason to go there more than once. The dwell bonus is supposed to encourage this, but I guess nobody has found the right formula yet.

What a community oriented approach! Judging what others do to pass their time.

Sombody pinch me.

Setting aside everything else in your post for a moment, I have to ask Charlotte, as coming from you as someone who ordinarily has such a finely honed ability to rip other's grammar to shreds, wouldn't an unsustainable lack of community mean it is impossible to sustain the lack of community?

Personally, I have found SL to have the richest, deepest community I have encountered in any online environment. Your mileage may vary of course, I have found the garbage in, garbage out rule to be true, and pretty much all I have ever seen is you playing the role of the disaffected, angry Brit in the forums. There is not a lack of community in SL - there is a lack of understanding that just because you are not part of a certain group does not make that group's reasons for enjoying SL any less viable than your own. As the poster who talked about tringo said, why do you give a care whether she enjoys tringo and hangs with her friends, or enjoys dancing in a giant cube?

We all find our own groups, our own niche in SL, and that is its strength - it is diverse enough to SUSTAIN all kinds of goals, aspirations, and proclivities. Much like RL communities, with the added benefit of being able to reinvent yourself at any time and move among various groups easily. There is nothing unsustainable about this community - it is both self-preserving, and endlessly changing at the same time.

Charlotte,

I totally agree with you, but how is it different from RL?

Just like in RL, everyone likes to form their own little clicks and groups. When a member of the group deviates, they are considered outcasts.

The 'elite' only wants to wants to hang with the 'elite'. The 'jocks' with the 'jocks'. The 'heads' with the 'heads'. And so on.

In SL we had an opportunity to create a totally new world, but we created a clone to the real world (any surprises there?).

It is sad but true. Humans will never be able to totally accept or love each other.

Come see me. My circle of SL friends, just like in RL, are free to come and go as they please. No commitments, no hard feelings.

- T -

Charlotte, you sound as if you need a wee break from SL. Has it not always been like this?

Heh....synchronicity strikes again. I just posted my thoughts about this very issue. Both identifiying what I see is the main "problem" (the purely synchronous nature of SL) and a possible solution.

/120/f0/36560/1.html

I think you've summed it up rather well, Charlotte. The beauty and magic of SL, however, is that it can convince thousands of people that if they situate a toy version of themselves 500 m in the sky and wank off while looking at some other toy version of some stranger clicking on sex balls, or that if they set their toy dancing in laggy black box, that it is "fun" and even "enjoyable". The marvels of the Internet, what?

I agree that people are really remote and aloof and tend to make fierce tribal-like connections and characterize themselves as the smart ones, while everybody else are the yahoos. It reminds me of Russia and other closed societies. It's appalling really.

The question is, can you have a real conversation with someone on SL? I would say, not really, there are just too many barriers and distractions, but you can try.

I still do think it is possible to make communities of conversation and even action but what must be surmounted is people's belief systems about themselves and the medium and the world at large, and these include their attitudes that they are the cool and hip ones discovering things underground while everybody else is mediocre and a piece of shit. There is much to enlarge the naturally-large egos of men and women in cyberspace and little to give them humility.