Patriot Act deux

How can you say they can't make you chip your baby...they can take your children away from you right now for not giving them riddlin if a teacher suggests it...go ahead trust the gov-co...don't look at the writing on the wall if you don't want to. And are you seriously saying that insurance is not tied to the government? Do you really think that? I find it amazing that ingnorance can cause such bliss that one could think that the goings on in America right now are not the most dangerous and terrorist like actions ever to hit us. No it is not a bomb that will take away our rights, it is not a plane in a building...it is comprised of people who cannot see the actions for what they are. Those who think that Rummy, Cheney and Ash have our best interest at heart.

Who knows maybe we will have to revolt again.

OH, Where does it say they can take your child for not giving them drugs at a teachers prescription?

I hope Kerry wins so all the "If Bush..." statements get resolved. We're all gettin veri-chips no matter who wins. Which will be kinda cool at first because GOM will probably take them.

Why the verichip conspiracy? Point me to the website.

How are they going to enforce this Verichip thing? Put people in our overcrowded prison system? Fifty million of them or so?

Use our volunteer military to enforce it? Ya, I can see the youth of the US holding their parents at gunpoint

You admitted to smoking pot, which funds terrorism. By smoking pot, you are protesting the war by giving money to terrorist groups. Read the PA II draft for deatils on what you can be charged with if the cops try to bust up your anti-war party and someone gets shot in the process.

(Reprinted with permission of the Times Union of Albany, New York)

Times Union, Albany, New York
By RICK KARLIN , Staff writer
First published: Sunday, May 7, 2000


Ritalin use splits parents, school

Berne -- District marks parents as alleged child
abusers for wanting to take their 7-year-old son
off the medication

Like thousands of children, 7-year-old Kyle Carroll
takes Ritalin for a diagnosis of attention
deficit/hyperactivity disorder, or ADHD.

And like thousands of parents, Michael and Jill Carroll
worry about the drug's side effects, including
sleeplessness and loss of appetite. But they keep their
child on the medication, in part because they fear child
welfare workers will take him away if they don't.

Earlier this year, administrators from the
Berne-Knox-Westerlo school district called Albany
County Child Protective Services, alleging child abuse
when the Carrolls said they wanted to take Kyle off the
drug.

As a result, the Carrolls are now on a statewide list of
alleged child abusers, and they have been thrust into an
Orwellian family court battle to clear their name and to
ensure their child isn't removed from their home.

"It's beyond the point of whether he should be on it.
Now it's the point of them telling us what we're going to
do,'' said Michael Carroll. "They're telling me how to
raise my child.''

The Carroll's dilemma is not unique. While there are no
reliable statistics on the phenomenon, observers say
public schools are increasingly accusing parents of child
abuse and neglect if they balk at giving their children
medication such as Ritalin, a stimulant being prescribed
to more and more students.

According to a recent report from the American
Academy of Pediatrics, as many as 3.8 million school
children, mostly boys, have ADHD. The disorder is
characterized by a short attention span, jumpiness and
impulsive behavior. But many cases are misdiagnosed,
the study found. Additionally, at least a million children
take Ritalin and the use of the drug has risen many times
more during the past few years.

Along with that increase, schools are using some
heavy-handed tactics on parents who may balk at the
medication.

"The schools are now using child protective services to
enforce their own desires and their own policies,'' said
David Lansner, a New York City lawyer who has seen
cases similar to the Carrolls'. "The parents' authority is
being undermined when people have to do what some
public official wants,'' Lansner added.

"This thing is so scary,'' remarked Patricia Weathers, of
Millbrook, a suburb of Poughkeepsie. Officials at the
Millbrook school district called police and child
protective services when she took her 9-year-old son,
Michael Mozer, off medications earlier this year. She
said a drug cocktail including Ritalin, the anti-depressant
Paxil and Dexedrine, a stimulant like Ritalin, caused her
boy to hallucinate. "My son was a guinea pig,'' said
Weathers, who now sends the child to a private school.

"This is relatively new but it's happening,'' said Peter
Breggin, a Bethesda, Md., psychiatrist, of the school
districts' legal tactics. Breggin is an author who opposes
the use of Ritalin.

Child protective workers with the Albany County
Department of Social Services didn't return phone calls
seeking comment on the subject. And county
spokeswoman Monica Mahaffey said social workers
and others would not publicly discuss such matters.

"We're just absolutely not going to comment because of
confidentiality,'' she said.

Likewise with officials at the Berne-Knox-Westerlo
school district.

"We feel we are unable to give our side of the story due
to confidentiality,'' said district superintendent Steven
Schrade.

"It's a point of view that they have, and we have our
point of view. We feel our side is based on facts,'' said
Schrade, who added, "There's more to it than I can tell
you.''

Schrade noted that schools do not prescribe medication
such as Ritalin. Any drug prescription has to come from
a physician, although school nurses can administer the
drug and school officials can recommend it.

Kyle Carroll started taking Ritalin last year, after he fell
behind in his school work.

"It's hard for him to focus,'' said Jill Carroll.

Teachers drew up an Individualized Education Plan, a
standard course of action for children with special needs,
and they started giving him speech therapy and extra
reading help. He also went to summer school.

But last fall, when Kyle started second grade, the Ritalin
and extra help didn't seem to do much good. The
Carrolls grew concerned when Kyle was only sleeping
about five hours a night and eating just one meal a day at
lunchtime. So they told school officials they wanted to
take Kyle off Ritalin for two weeks to see if that helped.

That's when they got a call, then a visit, from a Child
Protective Services worker.

The visit led to a family court appearance in April, which
was continued to later this month. The hearing will give
the Carrolls a chance to clear their name -- to some
extent. If cleared, their case in the state register of
alleged abusers will be sealed, but it could be opened in
the future if there are other allegations of abuse.

Jill Carroll is particularly concerned because she's
attending Hudson Valley Community College with hopes
of becoming a child care worker. Being in the state
register could keep her from working in that field.

Moreover, the Carrolls still don't know all the details of
the charges against them. The "intake report'' on their
case states that "Fa (father) is refusing to give the ch
(child) the Ritalin.''

But several lines on the report are blacked out with a
marking pen. It's roughly analogous to a criminal facing
charges but not being told what they are. (Complaints to
Child Protective Services are also anonymous, so
suspects don't know who has leveled the charges. In this
case, however, the Carrolls say they were told that a
school guidance counselor made the complaint).

Michael Carroll noted this wasn't his first brush with
Child Protective Services. Last year, he said, a social
worker checked on an anonymous rumor that he had
gotten drunk and struck family members, but the
allegations turned out to be groundless. No charges
were filed, and the Carrolls were not "indicated,'' or
written up in the state register like they were for the
Ritalin episode.

Since meeting with the services' workers this year, the
Carrolls have taken their boy to another pediatrician for
a second opinion. The doctor recommended staying with
the Ritalin, and the Carrolls have reluctantly agreed.

"He's in school. He's on the Ritalin. He dislikes school
very much,'' Michael Carroll said.

During a recent interview, Kyle had little to say. He
slouched in his seat silently and, when asked if he liked
school, slowly shook his head no. "This is him on
Ritalin,'' Jill Carroll said.

Educators and researchers say Ritalin can indeed
improve a child's concentration but it takes a concerted
effort, with constant reinforcement at school and at
home. "The schools have to do a lot of behavioral things
with the kids,'' said William E. Pelham, a psychology
professor at the State University at Buffalo who has
researched ADHD and Ritalin.

In addition to medication, children with ADHD need
close supervision with well-set daily goals and feedback
such as a point system to reward good behavior.

For now, the Carrolls are willing to give Ritalin another
try. But they still object to being targeted as potential
child abusers for taking their boy off the drug.

"The parents made a decision that should have been
theirs to make,'' said Elie Ward, executive director of
Statewide Youth Advocacy, an Albany group that
works on behalf of children.

"This is a classic, perfect example of the overreach of
Child Protective Services,'' added Richard Wexler,
Washington director for the National Coalition for Child
Protection Reform and a former Times Union reporter.
"The parents aren't being neglectful, they are being
cautious.''

Copyright 2000, Capital Newspapers Division of The Hearst Corporation, Albany, N.Y. The information you receive online from Times Union is protected by the copyright laws of the United States

Lol, first they would have to prove I was communicating with a foreign power. Which I dont, I buy it probably three or four teirs after it leaves mexico. A guy named Albert to be exact

I've been caugh by police before smoking pot and they made me get rid of it. one of my friends was written a misdemeanor ticket for it. Woo hoo. Most police dont consider weed any worse than alcohol and will only do what they have to as required by that oath they took to uphold the law.

What the hell are you talking about people getting shot? I'm not going to shoot anyone and I'm damn sure not going to give a cop any reason to shoot me

You have a lot of whatifs in your facts that I just dont get.

Aren't drug charges a reverse onus which means you prove your innocence? Ever had someone with an middle eastern accent call? Wrong number?




Yea as long as your come out of your house if they show up, you won't have a problem. What if some guy you smoke pot with decides to give them trouble?

Keep taking the schools right away to bust your childs ass with a paddle and they will try and take away your right to refuse them being able to set your child straight in school.

For some time now I have been hearing teachers complain that kids are able to get away with being cutup brats in school because they can no longer discipline a child. The child finds out there is no corporal punishment for acting up and they get worse.

Sorry, but this is one area that I have to totally disagree with extreme liberals. A child needs to know who the boss is because they dont have a well developed sence of Ego that tells them what is right and wrong, so they need an authority figure to spell it out to them. Take that authority away and teachers will bitch that kids have ADHD because they are out of control.

Sorry, I think this is backlash from children acting how they want. I even heard a kid on a forum say that if his parents ever spanked him, he would turn them in to child protective services.

My question is, do you think teachers should have the authority to properly control your child, or should the child act however he wants because corporal punishment will warp his poor wittle head? No wonder they cry ADHD when your kid is acting like such an ass.

PS I will say that I dont believe in forcing anyone to take drugs and I hope the parents win, But I also hope these arent the same parents that wont allow their child to be punished.

WEll, I dont have trouble maker friends. We are a nice group

I take offence! All my weed comes from good, hard-working Mexicans. It's been at least four years since I bought any Afghani-Bud. Vive La Mexico! NAFTA really does work!

Well, you'd have to prove that to avoid the charge. Good luck.

I'd have to be charged with funding a terrorist to disprove it.

Hmm...So if I were busted, and they discovered a large hydroponic crop under my house....would I be considered an American Patriot for stealing profits from those evil terrorist farmers?

So you drug them in retaliation...good choice...not only do you screw up the childs psychological well being forever but you possible ruin vital organs in the interim. Nice..so the choice is spank or drug...and they say black and white is out...

On another note...regarding the Pat act read section 111 which sheds light on the US citizens role in the gig.

I know some people are a bit overzealous in their persuit of Terrorism and I'm right along with John Kerry when he said we need to reduce the fear of the threat back to a nuisance, because in the grand scheme of things, walking around in your bathroom is more dangerous.

I hope eventually the fear does wear off and people get a grip, because I dont want people thinking we have to give up freedom to be safe, because that would be no fun. We doubled the population of the US in the last 50 years so we must be doing something right. Yeah, it really sucks when some f'in asshat decideds to blow a bunch of people up, wether he is a US citizen or someone from the middle east.

Fear is the problem hear and it's causing people to think irrationally on both sides. I hope everyone calms down soon and that the governement does its best to keep people from doing things like this again, just as the local law enforcement does its best to protect people. We may need to change a few things to keep good citizens from getting caught up in the mess, but we dont need to leave the country or revolt just yet.

Times are changing and we do have to adapt. Not long ago it took forever for people to communicate across the world, now it happens in an instant. This we have to adapt to. The world is becomming globalized and we need to find some common standards for the world to go by, since we are interacting so much more with technology like the internet and world trade.

You have to understand that the government isnt an evil power, but is actually made up of Americans with their own idea of how things work. That is why we vote, to make sure that our ideas are represented. We vote for the person we believe represents us best and there are checks and balances to keep one person from having to much power. Things like Bush only being able to serve four more years no matter how bad he wants to.

I'm not going to worry untill the pres tries to say he gets another four more years just because. At that time I'm sure shit will hit the fan.

Ok to expound first off Wigg I am without children because I feel someone else already stole my share. Secondly...contrary to your opinion of me as a far leftist, I do not believe in public education. I think it should all be privatized and the department of education should be abolished. This would take care of most of my problems with the interference of a school system in the medication of children. I do not believe that someone with a bachelor degree has the right to say that any child needs medication that will not only psychologically alter children but physiologically harm them. Ohh and once again your little pro big brother government is not what this country was based on...in fact it is what we used to fight vehemently against. So I'll be waiting for them to step on your toes.

Ohh and no need to concede defeat on the fact that children are being taken away from parents who refuse ridilin....it is ok and in print.

ohh and on the blowing up things...we didn't get that guy..in fact he just warned us that neither he nor our president hold our freedom only we do...he might be a shit but everyone can be right once.

No, you drug them to get them to pay attention. You used to spank them to get them to pay attention. Read where I dont agree with forcing a child to take drugs. At the same time I dont believe in taking a teachers power away to dicipline.

Why should your child be allowed to act however they want in a public school. Is that your definition of freedom? Besides that, the parents should have went to the doctor and made that decision and not to the school. That way they could have avoided the mess.

Also, are these parents knowledgable of the effects that can ocour when you remove someone from a medication? They shouldnt have made that decision, they should have went through the doctor. The child could probably go through severe depression if you dont ween them off of a stimulant such as rittalin.


Going to read 111 now.

What the F**k

Are you really implying that we have the right to drug children to get their attention!!! Public school or not this is not an option. So why not drug adults too while you are at it get them to vote the way you want them to, act the way you think they should and work as hard as you need them to. This is absolute bologna! I am sure you are pulling my leg by saying this or you have no care of the future of the world.

while reading 111 pull out the Pat I and read the other documentation to really get a grasp of the consequences.

I dont believe ina big government either. You seem to have painted me as a pro "big brother" government already just because I dont totally agree with you on certain subjects. Real nice. When they step on my toes, I will step back.

As far as children beiong medicated, I already said I dont agree with that. I'm surprised that this happend, but not totally, because I know that some ftard liberal group made it so kids need to be medicated instead of whooped. I agree its a bad thing. I know you want me to say I'm defeated, but I prefer to say educated.

So what if Osama is profound in a statement? He's just trying to polarise the people of America. Good job Osama. Nopw we have people on one side scared of terror and one on the other side scared of government powers. Woo hoo. I'm not scared of either.

Wiggle - I agree that schools have been rendered powerless to dicipline children because of lawsuits. However, many of the schools only have themselves to blame in that they did not always apply corporal punishment with common sense. Having gone to a very strict Catholic school in the late 1950's I can attest to this.

Parents need to take responsibility for their children out of the hands of the state and move it back into the home. Things have gone so far to this point, I'm not at all sure that this can even be done to date.

Sorry for this long post - but please see the proposed bill trying to prevent our government from becoming so intrusive as to require Mandatory Mental Health Screenings:

Fight Mental Health Screening For Children
Kent Snyder

The American tradition of parents deciding what is best for their children is, yet again, under attack. The pharmaceutical industry has convinced President Bush to support mandatory mental-health screening for every child in America, including preschool children, and the industry is now working to convince Congress as well. But mandatory screening alone is not what the pharmaceutical industry wants. The real payoff for the drug companies is the forced drugging of children that will result -- as we learned tragically with Ritalin - even when parents refuse.


Congressman Ron Paul, an OB/GYN physician for over 30 years, is desperately trying to keep the drug companies, politicians and federal bureaucrats from becoming parents to your children. Dr. Paul will introduce on Wednesday afternoon or Thursday morning (whenever the floor schedule allows) an amendment to the Labor, HHS, and Education Appropriations Act for FY 2005 that will withhold funds for this new federal mental-health-screening program. He will urge his congressional colleagues to support his effort in a letter to be distributed tomorrow morning.

Psychotropic drugs are increasingly prescribed for children who show nothing more than children's typical rambunctious behavior. Many children have suffered harmful effects from these drugs.

Dr. Paul's letter says in part: "As you know, psychotropic drugs are increasingly prescribed for children who show nothing more than children's typical rambunctious behavior. Many children have suffered harmful effects from these drugs. Yet some parents have even been charged with child abuse for refusing to drug their children. The federal government should not promote national mental health screening programs that will force the use of these psychotropic drugs such as Ritalin."

If you think this action alert is about something that "can't happen here," think again. In 1995, the state of Texas launched the Texas Medication Algorithm Project. (WorldNetDaily.com, June 21, 2004)

Universal mental health screening and the drugging of children needs to be stopped. America's school children should not be medicated by expensive, ineffective, and dangerous medications.

The state of Illinois has also approved a mental health screening program. The Illinois legislature passed the Children’s Mental Health Act of 2003 which will provide screening for "all children ages 0-18" and "ensure appropriate and culturally relevant assessment of your children's social and emotional development with the use of standardized tools." In addition, all pregnant women in Illinois are to be screened for depression.

This is very frightening and it's going on right under our noses.

Reread what I wrote, I dont believe in drugging children. Read it again. Nice try to lie about what I said.

At the same time I think that teachers need to get back their right to bust a childs ass to get them to pay attention.