So what are we doing with the Island?

My take on this:

1) Fitz is a SL player just like all of us who is totally into the game. As a creative professional - it suits his enjoyments and Aptitudes.

2) Just like the other bidders on Island - Fitz has a higher than normal RL income, and can afford the $200 per month.

3) Fitz's high income is the result of a successfull business.

4) Successfull business owners do NOT take on additional monthly expenses unless:
a) it makes money, OR
b) it is personally rewarding (fun) AND TAX DEDUCTIBLE!
(by that , I mean paid by Pre-Tax Dollars)

5) Tax law requires that a business expense must be "Perceived" by the owner to have business value - or potential return on investment.

FINALLY...

6) If Fitz were to state publicly that it is just a extravagant game for a wealthy, creative person to play with - It would no longer be tax deductable! If it is pre-tax, business dollars, it might only cost him half of what a private individual pays! $195 might only be $95 for him - in Pre-tax Dollars (Amount guessed at - the point stands, regardless of the correct Ratio according to Brittish Tax laws)

- For it to be an acceptable Business Expense - he has to at least maintain the *pretense* that there is business value in doing it. As has already been well pointed out - SL does NOT have the population yet to justify a RL return on investment. At best - it is an R&D playground. Fitz is not studid - he knows this.

Hopefully I am right and any commercial "invasion" of SL will be mere token gestures to justify another active PLAYer.

Just let him do his thing and wait and see - THEN judge him; There is nothing we can do to pre-empt him anyway!

[/B]

there is ALWAYS room for EVERYONE in SL... it's a free economy so far... if so many corporate interests are choking the world, we have the tools at our disposal to force them out.

What tools, you might ask? Well, let's see.

1) Scripters make auto-launchers at the Sim's borders, preventing people from getting through (they could launch them 50 feet backwards, with a message urging you to not support the Sim)

2) Protests. Make your own protest, host an event, and throw it on the Sim.

3) simply not buying their product. If the venture is unproductive for them, they will leave.

And so on, and so on, and so forth. You guys act like this is all being shoved down our throats, like TSO and Mcdonald's... that's just silly. If you don't WANT to be sold things, shut yourself in a box in Cardava, and don't talk to anyone with a shop.

LF

Im in agreement with the "dont like it? dont go there." camp. Wait and see what they are going to do before getting all up in arms about it. And if you dont like it, vote with your wallet. Dont be a patron of thier establishment.
But you never know. It could be something incredibly cool, or it could suck. Right now noone but fezik and his group know for sure, and they dont seem to be talking.

Ok, this is getting nuts... Stop, breathe, and count to 10, everyone.

I've read the word "gobble" in this thread more than I hear that word on thanksgiving =D

Has anyone considered the seemingly completely "remote" possibility that perhaps there is only one company in the whole RL world who is interested in owning a SIM in SL right now, and now that they have done so, all of this paranoia is completely moot?

This possibility has just as much credibility as the slippery slope "the corporate world is going to gobble up all of SL" meme that is repeatedly presented in this thread.

This is a virtual world. Land is not a scarcity here so long as demand can pay for the hardware.

They're not about to run out of land anytime soon so long as someone's footing the bill for the next round of server procurements...

Besides, so far we've only seen one sim auctioned. That's only one point of data to draw conclusions from.

Please try to remain calm until you have at least a few samples of corporate "gobbling" behavior before drawing any wild conclusions.

More land will come.

There will be enough for everyone.

Please understand this.

Thank you for reading =D

I don't patronize companies that spam either. Doesn't stop me from getting it.

I'll agree with Corwin. In fact, I'm taking a large chunk out of my evening to fight spammers on my hardware by installing a spam filter.

But I also agree with the "if you don't like it, don't buy it.

Anyone with a bit of marketing sense would likely know that SL is probably not a good idea marketing wise. even though it's a captive audience, we also have the freedom to negatively rate people, or take other measures as described earlier.

Honestly, I'd say that it might be a novel way to run a test market: textures are a lot cheaper to upload then tooling up a clothing factory. And there is a pretty decent cross section of the world population here. If something flys here, then it may be worth a gamble to try and sell it on the real world market.

In any case, time will ultimately prove how this grand experiement will ultimately work out. I don't think advertising will work in SL, myself.

dude... its an island... if they wanted to "spam" you in SL - they would have bought a bunch of 1 square plots in all the sims and put "spammers" on them. It wouldn't have cost them $1200, in fact, they could probably cover most of the world for under $15/month.

"Commercial" is not a bad word. Fizik is not the devil. They are not Leo Burnett. They are people who see potential in SL - just like you and me. Just because its your world, doesn't mean it can't be his world as well. They are not getting any perks, they wanted an island, and they are paying for it - paying more for it than most of the rest of us would be.

I for one am very excited about it - I love to see SL and RL bridge - it makes this virtual place so much more exciting - it makes me think that we are heading for the future. I am looking forward to seeing what they want to do - and what they do. I for one will be happy to help them in whatever way I can, because I think this will make SL a better place, even if its not the place we expected it to become.

bbc

I'll comment on this after it happens. Could be good. Could be bad. Could lure more people to SL. I just don't know.

I think our Second Lives have just become more complicated...

I heard his none answers I know what he did to win the bid. I dont care for the idea of any company coming into SL claiming to represent artists and then telling me there will be a link to a web site where i can buy his products. SL is not RL I dont want to see RL commercialism from Companies large or small in SL. I hate the idea that I may be flying and smack into a RL advertizing billboard or worse. The lindens say they didnt know so they didn't now they do and what are they going to do about it?

Honestly if big companies can just come in and buy advertizing space, I dont want to be there to see it.

The right thing to do is to re auction the island to someone who isn't trying to make a buck off the SL residents.

Catherine Cotton

Why hasn't Fizik Baskerville come back to answer our questions???

Because he has no idea what to say

Catherine,

I agree with you in a lot of ways, but I will reserve judgement ultimately until I see what "they" do with the island. As it stands right now, any company could come in to SL and advertise. They get a normal account, get some land, and put up an ad. It hasn't happened, but it doesn't mean it won't, if they feel there is value to doing it. Maybe they will build something cool, though right now they sound like any overblown marketing company does. Time will tell.

Catherine,

With all due respect, isnt anyone selling anything here trying to make a buck (Linden or otherwise) from SL residents? Especially now that there is the GOM connection, anytime you make money it can be converted to RL cash.

I really think everyone should take a deep breath and wait and see what happens. LL isnt going to null the auction. If it wasn't him/them it would have been someone else with deep pockets. Lets all try to co exist in peace.

I'm not worried about Fiz and his island so much, by itself it's just an oddity. No, my concern is that this is just the beginning. Already we've seen an increase in small time scammers newbs. Best example I can think of is people selling cheap or freebie Linden items for outrageous prices. There will be more.

Fiz and his company, whatever it is, isn't a problem. At best it'll at least be interesting to see what happens, at worst it's the first of many. Many what you ask?

Many people who will enter our world for the sole purpose of making a real life living off of what is our community, our game, and our "Second Life".

I see two mains ways to make money from SL. There may be more, sure, these are just the two that make the most sense to me. First, a company wanting to use SL as a marketing/advertising tool. Me, I can't see it happening succefully, but I don't work in advvertising or maketing. I do see that MMO's are an emerging market, and the type of bleeding edge game that SL is puts it far in the lead of what could be the "next big thing". Nice place to put your foot in the door.

The second? Individuals or small group companies trying to rake in the $L's to convert to RL$ on third party web sites. Sure, not really that much $L to convert to make it worthwhile ... now, but like I said, emerging market, foot in the door, etc.

I will agree, none of this seems quite plausible now. SL population really isn't that high .. now. Isn't it true though that SL is beginning to make waves? Isn't it true that the future of MMO's will include user content and individuality? Isn't the Metaverse what everyone's trying for?

Second Life's one of the closest things to it at the moment, and deliberately heading toward that goal. The only one to give user's IP rights to in-world creative idea's and creations. I also believe it's the only one to officially sanction and condone earning RL$ not only in-game, but through currency conversions on 3rd party web sites.

My biggest worry is that there will be a dramatic increase in RL greed. I can't help but feel cheapened by it. I'm trying, I am, but I can't help but be afraid that all this wheeling and dealing will damage the feeling of community that drew me to SL in the first place.

I didn't get hooked because of the cool graphics, or the fantastic framerate, or the rock-solid stability of the sims, or the bug-free coding, or the phat lewt. I feel in love with the people as much as the game.

I hurt when I think of losing that. I can't help it. I'm afraid, there I admit it, but it also has to be admitted that my fears are plausible and not outside the realm of possibilty.

I come here to play and relax and laugh and play some more. And yes if we're surrounded by people whose only interest in us is to make a RL profit from us and our community, then that would hurt bad. And I have every reason to be scared of it happening so I will if I want to, so there. Pfftt.

You know how I feel? I feel like we're a little happy village in the middle of nowhere, a few squables here and there, but mostly everyhtings pretty good, except that Mobil just discovered oil here and the first big truck just pulled in.

I'm going to go ahead and throw in my 2 cents here. First of all, to all of you up in arms about wanting to Leave, hating these "ideas" and thinking that LL is selling out, stop, take a deep breath, and remember back to a few weeks ago.

Remember the little "problem" that everyone had with 1.2. Well, if everyone would remember, the transition to this point hasn't been that bad. It seems as though it's buisness as "pretty much" usual around SL. At least, from my Point of View. While the 1.2 change isn't completely finished (and we're in 1.2.5), it seems as though things went pretty smooth.

Now, take a look at what's going on right now. We have somebody, or some people, coming in that we know little about, other than, as most people fear, is "commerical Devils" wanting to come in and buy up all of our SL land. To that, I say stop, and look at the world. They bought one sim, one sim. 6,558 (i think) square meters. Big deal. I don't think coroprations in SL are going to bring Second Life down at all. There are two possible outcomes in my eyes, One, They come in, they help out the commnuinty, offering services, and everyone is happy with them. They aren't doing anything to hold the Little man down. The second outcome is that they come in, they don't do much to help the community, they stay for a little bit, then they leave when they realize that the people in SL don't seem interested. A lot of companies will take the risk, but will pull out if it doesn't seem profitable enough coming up, ecspecially small ones.

I'd suggest to everyone, to wait it out, see what they are planning on doing. If you are that concerned with it, just go talk to them, see what they are planning. If you don't like it, they are on an island away from the main land, simply stay away from them. But don't blow them off just because you think SL is selling out. Remember, they are residents, just like any of us. Sure, they may have more RL resources, but that doesn't mean they are trying to completely take over. The residents of SL are too strong and too smart to let that happen, but as we can tell, some of us can be a bit strong headed too.

Simply wait it out, and see what happens, if you hate it, then ignore them, they'll go away soon enough.

But you may end up being pleasently surprised, Personally, i have a good feeling about this.

Indeed time will certainly tell, this whole mess leaves a bad taste in my mouth, a chip on my shoulder and feeling a little resentment. Honestly Put.

One last thing that has realy been bothering me is that if there was not anything shady going on here why all the secreats? If I were a company going into a venture I would be taking every oppertunity to advertize not avoiding the direct questions.

Sleep Well All and thanks for letting me rant a bit.

Cat Cotton

i've read through all the threads and honestly i have to agree with Catherine..yeah it maybe just one company so far and i will wait and see what they do with the island.. but i frankly don't want my SL experience turning into a giant Pepsi ad..i don't watch much tv cause i hate commercials.. and rarely go to the movies cause i'm not paying to sit through Nike ads and have the newest form of sprite shoved down my throat.. yes the island is off the beaten path and noone has to go there but what happens when more companies do come in and instead of buying island .. buy the lil plots like BBC suggested and liter the world the levi's ads and some other products on the main land.. thats not why i play SL , if i want that i'll log out and go watch tv.. but since i've payed my lifetime membership and LL isn't getting anymore money out of me they aren't gonna care if it gets to that piont and i leave or if anyone else leaves that has payed there 200 plus dollars...so they will keep allowing companies like this one to come in and do what they want with our world reguardless of how we feel because those companies are giving them the income to keep SL going no matter what the cost to the average player.

just a thouhgt.
this is the most terrible reception into the SL community that I have yet seen, and I'm beginning to feel a bit ashamed of it. Whether you think fizik is up to no good or not, the bottom line is he's done NOTHING yet to deserve the ill reception he is getting. "haha, YET." you may be thinking, but everyone with this attitude PLEASE stop for a minute and think about what you are doing to a fellow player. Until he has done soemthing so over the top that the confirmation of everyone's suspicions is glaringly obvious, all these charges levelled against him and his group are heresay. Yes, you have some vague information obout his group and thier purpose. but you have NO IDEA what exactly it is they are going to DO.

Like it or not, this guy is part of the SL community, just like you and just like me. And who are you or I to point the finger and say "THAT GUY doesnt belong here, i dont trust his intentions.". He has as much right to be here and play the game the way he wants to play it as any.other.person.in.the.game.
Before you point that finger and make that judgement, remember thats something ANYONE can do, and it could just as easily be pointed at you, for as little cause as its being pointed at him. I dont want to be in that hotseat, and i dont think anyone else here wants to be in that hotseat, so PLEASE behave towards this guy with a little openmindedness and compassion. Really whats being done to him here is as cruel and petty as all the other silly arguments and reputation smearing that has gone on in the forums in the past.
If he had decided NOT to make an announcement in this thread, ppl would have lambasted him. And different ppl yet are doing just that, BECAUSE he made the announcement he did. Frankly at this point i have no sympathy for those concerned that this is going to "ruin thier Second Life", those appear to be the same ones who are insisiting that this guy's Second Life be ruined so that they can keep thiers intact, and it just doesnt work that way. We're all here together, in it together, and we should at least attempt to give each other the benefit of the doubt.

"We have no agendas just the desire to explore and help create something exciting.
We are commercial based, but we are fans and active participants.
We will be suporting a charity and promoting good causes"
This just doesnt sound very evil to me. Mind=parachute.

Well said, Nephilaine.
Fizik, welcome to SL. I hope your experience here will be enjoyable. I've found it to be a wonderful community and a terrific creative outlet. I look forward to seeing how your island develops.

I didn't read this whole thing, but yeah....don't be like that.

Neph, you rock. Great post =D

But if Disney buys a sim here, they won't be so welcome.

Okay time to stop wasting time and call the staffing service...

Hey,

At a basic conceptual level, I have no problem with some commercial inroads into SL.

However, the folks that run SL have to, in my opinion, impose some regulatory activity. Here are some initial thoughts:

SL is an amazing entry point into the Internet that is unlike any other major community entry point (e.g., AOL). Up to now, the users have control over the aesthetic and functional arenas of interaction.

Commercial encroachment into this area must not be analogous to banner ads, pop-up advertising or spam. In other words, if I am walking through a residential or non-corporate SL homegrown commercial area, I do not want my view invaded by Pepsi billboards or IMs telling me to visit some promotion by Electronic Arts.

Also, I do not want this clutter to muck up any of my bandwidth when I'm enjoying the community.

That said, I think it fair to allow some whole SIMS to corporate commercial interests. This would allow residents the OPTION to enter when they see fit. Once they do, billboard clutter, IMs and any other commercial means are fair game.

Also, corporate interests could be allowed to list EVENTS to draw people from the non-commercial areas.

With some regulation by the Linden folks, perhaps a fine balance could be reached. I'm sure they've had this discussion -- just hoping the decision is a good one.

D.

I have to respectfully disagree with you, Nephilaine, about the reception that Fizik (or rather the company he is representing) is receiving thus far on the SL forums. The funny thing is, I don't disagree that having people like Fizik and his company here is a good thing for SL in the long run.

First, the SL community is still shell-shocked by the massive, seemingly commercially-motivated changes brought on by 1.2. Many are looking for something tangible against which to rail that represents all that is "evil" about the changes, and Fizik's company is the perfect scapegoat. Fizik should have been able to anticipate this reaction before he made this move, if he's any sort of a marketing professional. If I were Fizik, I'd have either kept my mouth totally shut about what his company was doing with the sim, or come totally clean about it on forums. This wish-washy middle ground is not a good approach, IMHO.

Second, LL's claims that they will make more private sims available to anyone who wants them, but the fact is they still allowed residents to engage in a very heated and somewhat ugly bidding war. I understand that they most likely want to determine what a sim (and land, in general) is truly worth in the eyes of SL residents, and perhaps they want to foster a bit of competitiveness among the residents; however, they may instead cause people to throw their hands up in disgust and walk away once they realize the deep pockets will always win out. If that's the way that LL's wants us to play this game, that's certainly their prerogative, it's their game, after all.

The onus is on Fizik and his company to prove themselves to the people of SL, not the other way around. Let's hope they find a way to make their company's motives palatable to and compatible with the community. After all, they are here to make money, the rest of us are here to have fun. That's the bottom line.

I see your point Beryl, but I missed the part in fizik's poat where he stated explicitly that hes not here to have fun, he's here to make money. both at the same time is extremely possible, he doesnt have to be here for either/or.

My biggest problem is with the assumptiveness of the players towards his intentions. I apreciate your input Beryl, and I'm Aok with agreeing to disagree on this one. It still seems inhospitable and unkind to offer someone the sort of reception he is getting...that behavior, imho at least, is never justified and is quite comparable in damage to anything he could intend to do.

I see your points, and I recognize the reality that backs them up, but since theres an awful lot of "should" being thrown around in this thread, let me toss out another few- maybe we shouldnt be this way, and maybe we should try to change this by being a little more openminded about what he is here to do. we most definitely should not freak out before we know what were freaking out over.