What Gives You the Right to Post Here???

You know I've just read for the UMPTEENTH time a version of "who are you?" and "I don't know you" and "I've never heard of you" given out as a response to someone posting about issues they have.

I'd like to see the list of the people who have a right to post here, and a list of those who don't.

Sounds like a rediculous request? It IS.

As rediculous as carrying on about "who the f**k are you" as if anyone needs to be "anybody" or "somebody" in order to air their grievances, opinions or whatever.

It was bad enough coming from a group of folks (not suprising to see who) and yall know who yall are and should be ashamed of yourselves....but now you see...that kind of behavior has given license to anyone to jump on this shameful bandwagon.

If you don't like or don't agree with someone's point of view, FINE. When you start down the road of "who are you to be posting this, I dont even know you" ya start to look just plain silly.

I'll tell you who these people "are". They are paying customers just like yourselves who like you have the privilige of being able to post on these forums just like yourself. End of story. We are all living breathing human beings here - act like it and show some respect for yourself and for others.

Oh and if you want to know WHO I AM

IM me inworld and I'll TP ya over and we can have a nice chat and get to know each other.

Brace, that is well put. I think the unsaid thing that goes with "Who are you?" is "You're a stranger, so I don't trust you". Familiarity tends to increase confidence -- think of celebrities endorsing products as a way to build customer brand rapport, for example. And for someone unknown to come out of leftfield and start declaring bold things may seem threatening or off-putting to others.

When in doubt, I do like to ask "Who are you?" but in a nice way, as in "Please, do tell me more about yourself so I can better understand!"

When I was new, I already arrived inworld after having read much of the NWN archives as well as additional introductory material to SL. I felt educated and well-prepared, with certainly a LOT more to learn (and there always will be). I realize my experiences may be atypical but I've found they've worked with great success for me.

I put no one at fault, as we've had some enthused-but-perhaps-misinformed new residents boldly declare that something is screwed up with SL when they haven't taken the time to learn more about the history of the world. I've made my own gaffes and blushed afterwards. That's okay, because humility can be a good thing. Likewise, on the other side, there is the stereotypical image of the weary oldbie who feels defensive against rookies. There are valid points and counterpoints, but the bottom line is:

More bridges need to be built.

Nice points Brace. I couldn't agree more. It's one of a range of commonly used put-downs to invalidate somebody's opinion without even trying to respond in a mature manner on these forums. There's a list you can almost guarantee will get used.



If only that were true. In the context I see it on these forums it's used as a put down, to suggest that the person is worthless. That's the case with the one I've seen this morning as well, in addition to intimating that the person has added nothing to SL.

There are people who've always been better than that going in for similar put-downs or using attacks as a central part of any rebuttal these days. I've been genuinely suprised recently at some of those people, and it doesn't give me much confidence in the community doing anything other than twisting into a bitter, festering mess. It makes me sick to be honest.

And new people accused of being alts. Just because someone new decides to post and does not agree with you, it doesnt mean they are an alt.

yep, my first few posts here over a year ago were in a political thread. The responses I got were "Who the hell are you?" "I don't know you" and "Whose alt are you?"

My response was, "What does any of that matter? Can't you respond to the substance of what I've said?"

That's how I learned how these forums work.

I'm Eggy Lippmann. One of the last remaining feted inner beta lifers who is still fairly active and hasn't been hired away by Linden Lab

To be fair, I've seen it both ways: people who try to take down other people because they "aren't known," and people who try to act as though they are "known and entitled."

It's all the same. The idea of "SL celebrities" is ludicrous. The idea of "elitism" in SL is fairly pathetic play-acting. And the idea of a "creative elite" in SL is a contradiction in terms.

From a recent thread:

I've contributed more to this community in the last 9 months than you'll EVER know....

followed by

I've never seen you in world or any of your creations. Who the hell are you?


So to be fair, I've seen it both ways: people who try to take down other people because they "aren't known," and people who try to act as though they are "known and entitled."

It's all the same. The idea of "SL celebrities" is ludicrous. The idea of "elitism" in SL is fairly pathetic play-acting. And the idea of a "creative elite" in SL is a contradiction in terms: elitism destroys creativity.

It's called a red herring or a strawman argument. Call 'em on their logical fallacies.
http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/red-herring.html

Maybe most of the time it is just silly elitist pretension, and that's sucky. On the other hand when someone new and/or unknown adopts a lecturing tone, I do think it's a legitimate point. It's one thing to have the right to participate in the discussion, it's another thing to jump into an existing community and presume to lecture people with an air of authority. Which happens.

Me too



No no, not the Eggy part... the rest of it...

Eggy, I wonder why we're last on the list to get hired??

I don't know any of you. Does that mean I shouldn't post or you shouldnt?

I find that tactic highly annoying and disturbingly common. I'm not sure the accusers actually believe it or if they're just trying to undermine the other person. I think it's the former. It would be nice if we lived in a world where everyone was logical and rational, but welcome to the human race.

This issue goes both ways though. Far too many people take any kind of disagreement as a personal attack. If someone puts forth a theory that I think is irrational or downright nutty I'm going to call a spade a spade. Rather than address the counterpoints offered too many people will just cry that they've been wronged somehow simply because not everyone praised the brilliance of their hyperbole. The "I've never heard of you" retort is usually a cheap way of trying to discredit someone, but as Cadroe said, sometimes it's valid... people lack context or are ignorant of the history of a particular issue which leads to uninformed arguments they likely wouldn't make at all if they were better informed. The biggest problem of all in the forums is that people don't have thick skins. 100% civility at all times would be great, but so would free beer for life... neither of which is ever going to happen. This is the human race we're talking about after all.

Who the fuck am I?? Brace if you still know who I am, let's skydive naked m'kay??

well stated chip. but we're not all human after all.

I agree with Brace, however, the forums are prone to flames constantly. We all know this, and I feel that if someone is truely affected by a comment such as "Who the hell are you? and "Who's alt are you?" to the point to where they run off crying and never post here again, then its probably for the best. Don't get me wrong I'm not saying its right but you can't change it and honestly it only gets worse.

I remember when I first posted, I got flamed much worse than what's being described here. But, I didn't let it get to me and kept voicing my opinions anyways.

MJ

Its a date babe mwaaahhhh!

Well I figure if you can type you're close enough, hehe.

Apparently so. Screw it... I'm posting anyways, even though I don't have the right.

Here's my contribution to this thread:

I started a thread Leck to help you answer that burning question - SL WAY

The token cynical response to follow:

The use of the -who the hell are you, I don't know you- "argument" can be interpreted or translated into "because I have never heard your name before I am assuming there is nothing you can do in world to either help or hurt me personally- therefore I don't need to show any respect to your opinion. Even if it is valid. Meh"

Just a thought, although, I would bet the users of the argument would not agree. I am not offering this possible explanation to blanket ALL cases (before anyone yells at me). Just what it sounds like to me, but who the hell am I?

You nailed that one Versu! *grins*

Shortly after joining SL I was having a disagreement with someone in the Welcome Area. At some point they said the classic "you have no idea who I am" intimating she was using an alt and her main av was someone so famous in SL that I would not have dared disagree with her had I known. What utter nonsense.

There are people. in the forums especially, who are in some sort of loose clique. On the whole they agree with each other; back each other up if one is criticised or temp banned; don't really listen to what newbs have to say. There is the occasional newb who is taken into the circle but rarely does this happen. I have read threads where they have viciously attacked one person and I have to wonder if they would do this in RL. If so, they need psychiatric treatment in my opinion.

Alexa

Those things definitely do happen, Alexa, but oldbies don't exactly have a corner on the market for ad hominems, red herrings, and cheap tactics used in an attempt to discredit others. New players are just as likely to resort to such things. The difference is that new players tend to point fingers at some imagined oldbie conspiracy under such circumstances where older players are more likely to simply chalk it up to human nature and typical forum discourse. People either develop thicker skins over time or they stop participating in the forums. Another factor is that certain issues have been discussed at length 4000 times already so people who've been around a long time are more likely to be on a similar page.

Which frankly some of the people posting in the forums cannot seem to do

I tend to find that quality of posting does effect my opinion of someone in world as well as here. Usually, the forums are a good way to judge someone and whether or not you will interact well with them. It doesn't cost you anything to read someone pulling the irrational "WHO ARE YOU??" (also known as "WHO ARE YOU TO BE ABLE TO JUDGE ME?" when responding to a well thought out arguement or discussion. Or respond with gibberish that is so hard to translate into any known language in the world. Frankly, I will judge these people accordingling and in probably a pretty harsh manner.

So, I'm an unknown. Who cares? Someday, I might just be a someone and well, those judgements will still be with me.