Don't Blame Dancing

Not sure how I feel about the new rating changes. I can appreciate the rating system should be tweaked, but this change bends me over and doesn't use lube!

However, I've seen a few remarks about dancers, dance clubs, rating parties that seem to suggest new people are gaming the rating system in a way never seen before ....and I have to laugh. The rating system was "gamed", in my opinion, right from the start.

I remember myself and other players hanging out at the welcome area tagging newbies with ratings as soon as they rezzed back in early Beta. We didn't know any better..it wasn't called "rate mining" back then, it was called greeting newbies I mistakenly thought I was being friendly. I know better now. Oh well.

Time marches on, and my Leader Board supremacy was overturned by a new generation. These tawdry vixens were holding events! These scandalous persons were having pool parties and dancing! And, it was rumored, that the newbies were rating each other with careless abandon. They were ignoring the sacred tenants laid down by residents 4 weeks older than them, and rating for fun, instead of only rating those that deserved it!

Why didn't the Lindens stop this madness right then in early Beta? Why let this egregious abuse continue? My guess, is that they simply wanted the rating system to encourage socializing..it did the basic job, if not the more ambitious one of reflecting the actual pecking order of the community. *shrug*

From where I sit, it looks like each new "generation" of second lifer comes in with an advantage over the previous generations, if for no other reason, each successive wave is larger. There are more people starting out at similar times and they socialize together and (have mercy on their souls) rate each other.

Complicating that, as people settle into their second life, they may spend more time on their own working on various projects. They will certainly spend more time among established social groups who have, of course, already rated each other. All amounting to less time meeting new people and fewer rating opportunities. This seems to me to be perfectly natural.

Those who host on a regular basis, determined socializers and teachers will maintain a steady, if not spectacular stream of ratings. The rest of us are reduced to the occasional rating.

All of which translates into newcomers are gonna get a heck of lot more ratings than established players. And thats the way its always been...since beta..nothing new here. To clarify "rate mining" is not what comes of dance clubs, this is what comes of being new in SL, fearless and having every person you meet be a potential new rating.

Maybe in that light, LL should rethink the 6 month rule. Older players not only lose out, but are unlikely ever to catch up without a big change in their behavior or the creation of oldbie rating parties where tawdry oldtimers can do the "function key" dance and (dare I say it?) rate each other.

One part of me shudders and another part thinks would it really be so bad to go back and look up old acquaintances? To renew social ties and to hit the old F9-F12 keys again? Hmm.

Ok, long post..but here's the point. If you're mad at LL for the rate changes (and I can totally understand why you would be) then be mad at LL. Don't blame the new players. Clubs, dancing, having fun and giving ratings to the people you are having fun with are not a problem.

We were all new once and innocently went about the world rating whatever seemed cool. It's just that when you're new EVERYTHING is cool. And can you really blame anyone for feeling that way about SL?

Great post Bel. I very much agree with the sentiment, but the nagging question remains... why are there people at the top of the leaderboard for building who rarely so much as rez a cube? I don't blame that on newbies, or dancers, or any particular group of people... I blame it on everyone who ever gave a rating for anything without any real idea of how someone actually behaves or builds. Appearance I can let slide. That's the one thing you can assess in a glance. We've ALL abused the system, myself included. I don't think encouraging people to socialize was the whole intent of the system. I think, just as importantly, it was to give people something to aspire to... and not just being really good at standing within right click distance of a lot of people. I have mixed feelings about this change, and about the whole ratings system in general, but I can appreciate why LL made this change, and increased the cost of giving out ratings. They're not perfect solutions by any means, but I don't know what a perfect solution would be. At least now (well six months from now anyway) ratings will be a more accurate representation of people's ongoing impact on SL and those they come into contact with, or who come into contact with their creations. I don't think ratings were ever supposed to be a charm bracelet or a big box of postcards from journeys long past. Being the hermit that I am, I've no doubt I'll be way down the new list, hehe. I look at it this way... anyone who starts SL six months from now will find the way of things perfectly normal, because it will be. If ratings are to be a measure of merit, let them be that rather than a measure of how much someone likes to be in crowds or how long they've been here. Those are better measured by how many friends a person's made and the start date listed on their profile

dont troll the sl forums

you don't know anything

kthxbye



Uh... oh wait... maybe you DO.

*blushes*

My bad.


^A JOKE... I have loads of respect for Bel and Chip!

These are fantastic insights.

hehe you're a nut Torley The respect is mutual my friend! And Bel... well Bel still makes me feel like a newbie awestruck by the utter coolness of it all.

Haha..thanks, Chip, for such a nice compliment. You are, btw, my official spokesman on the board. I love reading your posts.

Torley, you tawdry vixen, Chinatown is awesome! But it needs a ClubBel outlet there...hehe



Honestly, I think people will keep doing as they have done. I understand the potential of the system. But its been two years, and maybe we have to accept that human nature dictates that if you can give your friend a pat on the back, you will. Regardless of whether they meet someone else's notion of "good".

I _wish_ it worked the way people want it to work..but even with 6 month fade away and 25 a pop entrance fee...the overall pattern will remain the same. People are gonna rate their friends.

I really do have mixed feelings here...cause I see no way to ever climb my way back to the semi-respectable level of ratings I have now. I think it will pretty much be the end of any ambition of even being in the top 2000..hehe. And I never even cared much about ratings. This is very hard on the people who really felt the ratings were a reflection of their participation in the world.

I'm really hoping this change will be the best thing for the greatest number of people. But its just not a good thing for me personally.

But then the only constant in SL is change, right?

I'll be right down there with ya Bel, hehe. Here's to planned obsolescence!

Wipe them to zero, or remove them entirely.

They don't matter ultimately, and will be jettisoned soon - this just seals the coffin a bit. I have several hundred myself in the different categories, and I don't care if they all go away, personally.

People know me through what I build, I don't need a number.

LOL Bel, Chip...

I've kinda been in the top 30 for the best part of a year... and for a lot of it, about 16 or 17... But most of my ratings came, as for you guys, a long time ago. Most obtained fairly, I think, though of course, we were all newbies once. In the last 6 months though, I don't think I've got 100 rates in all categories together, lol... well, we'll see next week.

I'll be coming to see you both so we can wallow in our new found obsolescence. Ah, you too Maxx, the greatest builder never known, lol... (I can imagine a lot of older builders in the same place though... When did anyone see Lumiere Noir out and about lately, for instance?)

Maybe we'll organies a Fêted Inner Ratings Party when the Lindens aren't looking...

Sio

I think a good idea would to not be able to rate in the building category simply by right clicking an avatar and opening up their profile. I've always thought this was kinda odd. It would have been much better if the only way to rate in that category was by right clicking on a prim. I thin it would have greatly reduced the rate mining in this area.

.... Don’t blame it on the sunshine
Don’t blame it on the moonlight
Don’t blame it on the good times
Blame it on the boogie....

Therefore if boogie = dancing, then dancing *is* to blame

... and now i should go and read what this thread actually says, sorry....

Bel!! Great to see you - was wondering if you might post a message or two around the first of April - and loo-n-behold, here you be!

LL's rolling 6 months will eventually "flatten" the old rates for everyone, but once again, I have no clue why they choose this way to do it. As so many others have said - wipe all rates 0 from the $25 day forward, then we'd have a benchmark that was meaningfully based on a tangible event that affected everyone.


And hey, I like the F9-F12 dance keys!

Here's a couple of threads to help with your Oldie's invite list!


Alpha members - Ancient Ones!

Beta Members - Oldest of the Old

I can blame YOU for an extremely long post.

Good post though, and I concur, its a social aspect, and that probably won't change, even if the system does, the new rating system will most likely be seen as yet another social tool (hehe, tool).

Its not really anyones "fault", its just there!

Haha..I know my post is waaaayy too long! Thanks to everyone who took the time to read it. You are too kind and have too much time on your hands!

Siobahn, I can't see how the Lindens would care about a few old fogey's getting together to celebrate their retirement!

Planet Mars, I may have to rethink my position because the Jackson 5 can't be wrong!

Merwan, I do understand that eventually everyone's ratings will reach a kind of normalized baseline when their first couple of months of ratings decay. But that doesn't remove the impact of new people on the system, in fact, i think it skews in favor of new people. What I think will happen is that LL has shifted the welfare from the older players to the newer ones. (and thats actually probably a very good thing!) So a new player comes in, gets rated a lot, enjoys the bonuses from that for about 6 months, at which time they lose that initial burst of ratings and join the ranks of the oldbies.

I can see the logic in it. And I can see the value it has for the community. But i can't help but see the disadvantage for me personally. Which is why the upcoming change has me both apprehensive and curious. I'm willing to wait and see how it plays out, but I reserve the right to scream bloody murder if this cuts too far into my Tringo money

lol I love how every old player thinks they have some natural born right to be paid lots of linden dollars every week for doing nothing for the rest of time.

This is the most impressive change the lindens have taken on so far and I applaud them. I hope its the first step to eliminating the system entirely, but this will be a definite improvement =)

Hehe..I totally agree..those November 2002 players were a bunch of lazy moochers!

Wheeeee, generalizations are fun! Damn those lazy do nothing oldbies!

If you had been paying attention, you might have noticed that most old players are relatively ok with the changes.

The loudest protests have been coming mainly from club owners and such, most of whom haven't been round too terribly long...

Sounds like another person who is disgruntled that time is linear from the inception of any reality, virtual or otherwise, and therefore other people will have been around a little longer.

I hope you don't actually expect me to pay attention by now, Nolan. I call it like i see it, and i was responding to this particular pity party.

I could care less if people have been around longer - what I care about is when people think they have a right to something others don't and can't have (amazingly large rating levels and weekly bonuses that don't in any way reflect the persons skills) due to the way a system is designed.


I mean come on...

I think most of us "old" players could not even say what the difference in our bonus has been with the recent change. I suspect most of us "old" players would be much less heartbroken to see the whole rating thing just disappear than the average player. I think mainly it is a matter of having to re-issue ratings, and not for the sake of bonuses, but rather because we'll look a little wierd wandering around with going on 2 years of experience and 0 ratings.

I don't see what the big deal is. Oldbies, have gone through MASSIVE changes, these protests and contests of such are NOTHING compared to the major changes in regards to our pocket books. You want to talk major change? That was a huge one.

Ratings I could care less about. As the saying goes, 'First impressions last a lifetime.'

Come on what?
I get rated about 1 point a week for the classes I teach, but I don't go to parties, so I don't get triple rated. Get your facts straight before you start pointing fingers.

Oh, and by the way... could you extract the comment from my quote and point out the bit where I was moaning? I've actually openly posted elsewhere that I'm actually in favour of this, though I would prefer to see ratings abolished.

Come on Lindens, get the kiddie grid set up so we can get on with the grown-up game here.

Ouch. Someones a little touchy. =P

Lol all I did was quote what you said, nothing more. Your situation is ridiculous and should never have happened, whether you were moaning about it or not. Don't expect me to hunt down your entire post history any time i happen to post in a thread with you or you'll be sadly disappointed. I go by what you say, I cant read minds. =P

A little?

I make a comment, and I get some newbie whinger accusing me of complaining, and I'm a little touchy? Damn right I'm touchy. Every day I read some post from a clueless newb who knows nothing about the subject in discussion criticising people, seemingly randomly for the heinous crime if discovering SL before them.

I didn't ask you to quote me. If you do, then at least make sure you quote me in context.

Lol how can i quote in more context than your entire statement?

Do you have any idea what it does to assume?