FAO: Gays and Lesbians!

Lol.

Thats random.

My answer (even though im straight) would be no. Like someone else said, you cant cure it because its not something wrong.

If there was a pill to stop you preferring cheese over ham WOULD YOU???

If there were a drug that made you desire ugly people...
would you take it?



Oh wait, what am I talking about? They sell it in six-packs.

the very idea is insulting.

*snorts with laughter at Jopsy*

Why would I take this pill?

No, I really think not. Not at all.

It isn't that being ... actually, bi ... "defines" me, as Dr. Tardis was suggesting some people believe it does. More, it's just that it's me. The very idea of having my nature fundamentally altered, artificially, in such a way, is repellant to me. It would be the same with a pill that could change my views on things (for example): in some way, it would be artificially stealing away part of what and whom I am.

I don't know why exactly it is that I'm bisexual. I only know that I am, and despite losing family and friends because of it, it's such a fundamental part of me that changing it seems profoundly wrong.

I wouldn't expect anyone to change their orientation (except very teasingly). I would love to be extended the same consideration.

The issue is the fact that you don't see straight people going around saying, "Oh, and by the way, I'm straight, get used to it." The issue is groups like Act Up. The issue is Pride Marches, and how speakers at pride marchers give speeches about how pride marches exist to somehow "prove" that gay people are like everyone else, yet pride marches generally shove forth the most extreme elements, and then they exclude straight people unless they're a group that promotes gay people (pflag, etc.)--it's like some exclusive club. Also, ever notice how common it is for a gay person to say to a bisexual, "Make up your mind!"--it's quite common, yet I don't usually see straight people saying that--in that area, straight people are usually more open minded.

I don't think people should be in the closet, but I don't think people should go around acting like a bunch of little queeny bitches telling people "get used to it" either. If women went around saying "I'm a bitch, get used to it", people would rightly have a problem with it. If you want to wear a dress, wear a dress--don't make a bunch of drama out of it. We live in a time where, as long as they're not living in some small po-dunk little town in the bible belt, they don't have to worry about repercussions from being themselves. Much of the attitude is from trying to counter verbal attacks that used to happen from prejudice straight people, which rarely happens anymore, and they just haven't learned how to turn off the attitude yet--they NEED to learn how to turn that attitude off, but since they're haven't, it has turned into a cultural norm for gay men to act like a bunch of little queeny bitches, and I personally can't stand it. Yes, there are women out there who act that way, and I think they should be treated poorly for it--nobody is THAT fucking important--nobody deserves to be treated like a princess "just because".

If you want to wear a skirt, or a leather harness, or makeup, or 2 foot high hair, or pumps, or fake breasts, or whatever--do it, stop making such a big deal out of it! Unless you live in a small town in the bible belt, nobody's stopping you.

I'd need to agree with you on this matter. Its hard with the public scrutiny on Homosexuality to lead life the way a straight person would. They cant be near as open as a straight couple would in a public place and very often they cant even be open that they are gay to begin with. Be it disownment and other things you said. The folks that are out there that find it offensive and im sorry to be a "bible basher" are usually the ones taught that way by devote religious people in their life from the time they are children. That homosexuality is evil and messes with the natural order of things and yet at the same time they teach to accept the way someone is born and that you shouldnt attempt to change your body.

Being gay is not a choice you go out and make one day. Like the one post in this thread where a guy was homophobic and found himself attracted to men and became even more homophobic to the point where he learned to accept who he was. Now im just taking a wild guess but the enviroment that you were raised in if you openly admitted such a thing to family and friends what would of happened? What ends up pissing me off the most about the world today is Parents....... I honestly gotta wonder what amount of parenting actually is going on these days. There is a lack of sexual education and people blather on about protecting children, but are rather just sheltering them.

Protection of the children starts with properly educating them not keeping everything from them. And then these parents also try to instill their morals into their children. I'll give an example of over protection. The whole making the internet "safe" crusade or getting rid of porn or censoring a ton of things on TV. With proper parenting these things arnt even an issue. The internet go buy a firewall and enable a parental filter for it Zone Labs, Zone Alarm firewall can filter out adult content with a password or just even actually check up on what your kids are doing on the internet periodically. If you dont want them watching porn thats up to you really but a teenager is going to become sexually curious when puberty starts and its important for them to educate themselves and be able to get those pent up feelings out.

Better they watch porn or whatever then go out and have sex with someone uneducated. That brings me to educating people properly on sex. To many parents leave this to the school and the government who mind you do a pretty poor job of educating the children on the matter. You have to remember to talk to your children as well not at them be open with them about it if they have questions answer them. Also with censoring TV what is the big deal???? So the might see a boob or whatever. Make it like the movies where there isnt any gratuitous sexual scenes or what not and if you dont want your kids watching those channels dont allow them their own tv till you feel they can handle the responsibility and periodically check up on what they are watching. A boob isnt going to scar anyone for life or corrupt the minds of anyone.

Parents in general are basically teaching their children their own morals. This doesnt apply to all parents but alot just feel they are to busy or what have you but they need to make the time to really reach their kids and talk to them. The problem with them teaching their morals is sadly it often continues a cycle of hate unless kids learn that their parents morals are totally off base and unless more people start to acknowledge homosexuality as a normal behavior rather then something evil to the church it will never get better. The U.K as of late seems alot more culturally accepting compared to the U.S and its quite shocking at how the U.S views things considering it is supposed to be the land of "the free".

But what is freedom really? And what are the costs of those freedoms?

But thats the problem is alot of gays are no longer being themselves but are trying to fit a norm that is set by the public these days. They want to be treated like everyone else and quite often arnt regardless of where they live. There is someone who is always going to be prejudiced even out of the bible belt. These gay pride marches arnt so much to turn it into an exclusive club as it is to make the public aware that they do take pride in the fact that they are gay and that they should accept them as is. They shouldnt have to fit to a norm or hide their feelings in public which quite often is what happens. They hide it so they are not discriminated against.

I've seen numerous gay men i know change their lifestyle so they blend in just because its not so much socially acceptable. It is more then it used to be but it still isnt for a gay couple to conduct themselves like a normal couple would. Im talking more about the states in this aspect as well. I know the U.K is more accepting of it. But the U.S government itself is a problem in the states. They outlaw gay marriage on what basis in all honesty? The church doesnt like it so all of a sudden hey gotta ban it because the church said so? Whatever happened to the Constitution and the Seperation Between Church And State?

Interesting views emerging here. The media presents a huge problem when it comes to propagating gay stereotypes because flamboyant, effeminate men trigger obvious associations in the mind of the viewer, and there's lots of comedy value to be had from them. But as you say, Brokeback mountain bucks this trend, and I can think of other fairly recent productions that have too. Queer as Folk UK strikes me as an obvious example in that -- for a series entirely about homosexual life in Manchester -- the characters depicted were *mainly* typical, masculine English lads who happened to be gay, rather than flamboyantly dressed girlie-boys exaggerating every camp trait known to man. Not that the show didn't have its share of those, but it was about 70/30 against...and having lived and worked in central Manchester's gay village (in a bar and club whilst at Uni), I'd say that's a pretty accurate reflection.

But then Pride comes around and the statistic flips. *sigh*

Personally I stay at home. If I'm proud of anything it's that my sexuality doesn't define my lifestyle, and that my sexuality isn't inhibited as a result of the way I choose to live my life. Unfortunately, there are no marches for that.

What if it just made you bi? lol

-Kiamat Dusk

Whoa! Settle down there, sugarpants. Ease off on that throttle a little bit cuz I'm here to tell you being a straight white male in the US these days ain't no walk in the park. First off you have to accept the blame and guilt for everything bad that ever happened to ANYONE not a fellow WASP ever in the history of the world. Lemme tell ya, compared to that-Atlas is a bitch.

Then there's the fact that we tend to die a lot sooner than everyone else, usually from heart attacks. Oh, and let's not even get into the issue of trying to get custody of your own children in a contested case. Well, actually, that last one is pretty much all males. The only time that doesn't apply is gay male couple cuz either way the father ends up wiht the kid.

Better to be a woman, I say....

...and discretion being the better part of valor, I'm gonna stop right there.

-Kiamat Dusk

Most gay men act queeny because it's the accepted societal norm for gay men in gay culture. They don't just try to be themselves, they try to fit into the gay culture. It's the same reason why ghetto culture acts they way they do--to be accepted you've gotta listen to gangster rap and act like a badass all the time. To fit into the gay male culture, you have to act like a queeny bitch and listen to broadway musicals and cheap dance music.

There's a problem everywhere in general in this society with people not feeling comfortable truly being themselves--gay or straight. Most people do everything they can to fit into a culture--if they don't, they're considered an outcast--but usually they're only an outcast in their own mind, which can make them become anti-social (and they end up perpetuating their own fears). People are more accepting of others being themselves more than most people think.

Straight male culture can learn a lot from gay male culture, and vice-versa. There's no doubt about that.

There will always be people who are prejudice against whatever. In fact, EVERYONE is prejudice against something. People who try to claim they're not prejudice against anyone or anything are flat-out lying. The problem is when people violently act out on their prejudices, and that is happening less and less. The likliness of being beat up for being gay is now just as little as someone black being beat up in a white neighborhood or vise-versa. Diversity is happening more and more, and people are accepting more and more other people's differences, even if they don't like those differences. It's a side-effect of growing diversity.

If people can't learn to be themselves, there will always be a polarization of cultures.

If more gay couples would be willing to hold hands, kiss, hug, that sort of thing in public, it would simply become more accepted as it is with straight couples, even if for a period of time, people make bad comments about it. It used to be unacceptable to see couples of mixed races showing affection, now it's commonplace, and it's not because of "mixed race pride marches" either, it's because people threw away their fears and stopped caring if other's didn't like it.

Now, if we could just convince the part of the gay male community that spends a lot of time at bathhouses or truck stops that rampant promiscuity is dangerous, there'd be even more acceptance of gay people by straight culture, but those people unfortunately give gay people a bad name, like my ex, whom I'm still bitter about. (I could give the long story about what happened about him bringing an abusive 3rd person into the relationship and then dumping all over me, but I'll leave that to another post on a different forum since this one is closing soon anyway.)

One good thing about my ex, however, is that he wasn't afraid of holding hands in public--even when we lived in a small town of only 1,800 people. Sure, we got strange looks, but people even came up to us to talk, and asked questions sometimes, and we didn't take those questions offensively because they really weren't meant to be offensive. There are too many gay people who take honest questions and curiosity from straight people as offensive as if they're just trying to be judgmental. People can't know the answers to things unless they ask questions in the first place--unfortunately, there are too many gay people who will answer every question with "You're just a bigot!".

Sooooo....we should stop trying to cure cancer? What about mental retardation? If we isolated the genes that lead to that or other birth defects and were able to reverse them in the womb you honestly think the religious Right would be opposed to it because God intended it?

No, I'm not saying being gay is a disease-put the flamethrowers down. I'm saying that this hypothesis that Conservatives of faith would automatically decry the reversal of some biological abnormality because it was "an affront to God."

-Kiamat Dusk

hell I get blamed for everything that goes wrong in my own house, forget about everyone else. almost every day its

"honey, blah blah blah"

my reply

"yes dear!, it was all my fault." (this is when I sigh and go and fix whatever I am being held responsible for.

oh and word to the wise for all you young men out there
when you hear "We need to talk!"

DO NOT ACTUALLY TALK!!
pretend as though you just got pulled over and are talking to the cops. Stare straight ahead and give short "yes" and "no" answers till you find out what your being accused of. There is no sense in confessing to a crime they don't know about yet.



P.S. Can yall see how my morning went?

I'm not one to put up with that BS for long. Thus my divorce.

-Kiamat Dusk

Series Finale Of Will & Grace Ends Eight-Year Truce Between Gay, Straight Communities

May 29, 2006 | Issue 42•22

LOS ANGELES—Widespread violence and riots have broken out across the U.S. since the May 18 airing of the last episode of Will & Grace, the NBC sitcom hailed as the lone common bond between American gays and straights. Relations between the two sides have returned to the hostility that marked the tumultuous period before the show ushered in a tenuous truce eight years ago.
Will & Grace


In the nearly two weeks since gay Will and straight Grace ended their televised domestic cohabitation, dozens of vigilante raids on gay bars and nightclubs have been reported, Provincetown, MA announced its secession from the U.S., while skirmishes have broken out at gay–straight border areas along New York's Chelsea neighborhood and the Castro district of San Francisco. And Monday, openly gay congressman Barney Frank was shot and killed on the steps of the Capitol.

"Straight men and women have reverted to their stereotypical view of gays, painting them as two-dimensional caricatures of either uptight, impeccably dressed neat-freaks, or shallow, flamboyant, sex-crazed maniacs," said Neil Giuliano, president of the Gay And Lesbian Alliance Against Defamation.

"Without the glue that held us together every Thursday night at 9, the floodgates have opened, and it's only going to get worse from here," he added.

Until now, the gay community has largely obeyed leaders' appeals for calm, but gay–straight violence seems likely to intensify in the vacuum left by the show's departure. Last Friday, a posse of militant homosexuals laid siege to ESPN's Bristol, CT studios and took five hostages, while actors Harvey Fierstein and Nathan Lane are facing assault charges after throwing several Molotov cocktails into a UCLA fraternity house over the weekend.

Giuliano warned that if the situation does not improve, it could sink beyond the level of the "very dark days" that followed the cancellation of Ellen in July 1998.

"Have we as a society already forgotten the lessons of 'Fagmalion Part One: Gay It Forward'?" Giuliano added, referring to the groundbreaking Will & Grace episode in which Will and Jack teach Karen's cousin how to be gay.

Premiering shortly after the Matthew Shepard slaying in 1998, Will & Grace deftly and memorably addressed the hate-crime incident with a landmark episode in which Jack wants to become a massage therapist.

"When I watched the episode 'Homo For The Holidays' with several of my new straight friends who I had met and bonded with thanks to the show, I thought it had put an end to homophobia in America forever," Phoenix resident Dan Salemme said. "I guess I never considered that a show of such cultural importance as Will & Grace might at some point go off the air."

"Will & Grace opened up the lines of pithy, innuendo-laden dialogue between gay and straight America," said Tom Harris, a freelance writer for The Advocate. "But since it ended, straight men have been far less apt to engage in tartly witty, rapid-fire exchanges with me, and are far more likely just to call me 'faggot.'"

The sudden absence of the series, which educated millions of gay and straight viewers each week about the other side's lifestyle, fashion sense, and catchphrases, has had a far-reaching social effect beyond the reactionary violence.

Said Austin, TX landlord Walt Howard, "Now that a gay person and a straight person don't live together on TV anymore, there's no reason I should let them do that in my apartment building." Howard plans to evict all gay tenants June 1.

Will & Grace creators David Kohan and Max Mutchnick have come under fire from both sides for effectively removing the only stopgap between peaceful order and uncontrollable chaos.

"We'll all miss the wonderful characters, the numerous celebrity guest stars, and utopian harmony between gays and straights in America," Kohan said. "But the show had run its course. It was time."

"I urge everyone to keep re-learning and applying the lessons of Will & Grace, which, fortunately, will still live on twice daily in syndication," Kohan added.
http://www.theonion.com/content/node/48958/print/

-Kiamat Dusk

24 years this November

and I've loved almost every minute of it!

Fmeh I tip my hat to you I could not have expressed myself nearly as clearly as you did and I agree with you on most counts.

This pressure to be "GAY ENOUGH" I think is very much the reason we still see so much of the Queen mentality. It is also one of the reasons I stay completely out of the arena of Gay organizations and politics.

I think most folks would be surprised how many gays are out there that simply live their lives. No overdramatic BS. We are what we are. Mind you it took me the better part of 40 years to figure out that gay is not something that is a choice. I lived bi (unsuccessfully) for many years before I finally stopped trying to fight it and settled down with my partner. Once past that crises though I found myself simply living. I don't hide it but I don't run around screaming it to the universe either. How can anyone be "GAY ENOUGH" you are either gay or you are not. And quite honestly its none of my D*** business what anyone other than myself and my partner are.

I'm curious,
Can some of you gay guys tell me what you thought of the gay roles in Will and Grace?

Don't be such a queen!

This is the philosophy I was given when I was growing up as a young and pretty obvious lesbian, by my grams, who loved me unconditionally, which is a thing I would wish more for my fellow human then some dumb pill to turn everyone into something they are not:



This philosphy covers such a broad range of issues, and has served me so well in my dealings with others who would have me be something or someone other then just ME, that I offer it as a substitute for your pill.

your link failed

hehehe! Queen are the gods of stadium rock!

-Kiamat Dusk
...all hail Freddie Mercury!