Kansas School Board gets the boot

Wow. No.

What you just identified is "sophistry". That's the practice of saying that whoever seems to win an argument must be right, facts be damned, so why use facts when you can assault the opponent. In fact, facts are bad for the sophomoric argument.

Arguing without knowing the facts on what you are arguing is base sophistry. Stop it.

So we're all decendents from the incestuous relationships their children had? Wellll ok, if you're talking about the southern US I'll grant you that one.

Careful... Billybob might raise the Confederate Battle Flag and charge you down...

don't go there!

Hey, now... Royal families too. (and don't forget the Roosevelt thing)

Can I be a lemur? They're cute!

"Can I be a mongoose?" -Gir

dibs on the flying squirrel

Have you ever read Matthew?
Matthew 25?
verses 31-46?

I have.

"When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.

"Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me. Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink? When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee? Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee? And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.

"Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal."

Matthew 7?

"Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them. Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity."

Let me go to the first part first.

"Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me."

When you, or she, or /anyone/ /else/ - (and this is /your/ religion I'm preaching to you, so sit down shut up and be quiet until this is through - I know you don't like looking your deity in the face but you need this and it hurts me more than it hurts you)

When you go about lying to people about evolution, misrepresenting it, spreading lies and propaganda about it, about the scientists who study it, trying to politically derail their careers and lying to people about what evolution claims and says,

Jesus - "Ye have done it unto me." You Lied. To the least of us, and thus to Jesus, harmed the least of us and thus Jesus. Defended someone's lying from ignorance.

Science produces many fruits. It provides food for millions. It clothes, shelters, cures millions. "A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit - neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit." The fruits of Intelligent Design: ZERO. The fruits of Creationism: ZERO. Those who defend it and practice it produce /no/ work of their own and the majority of their propaganda is cherry-picking the work of others and twisting it to make it seem to fit their prejudices. "Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them."

"Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity."

You. Face it. You are a worker of iniquity, proclaiming that neither you nor anyone else in your cause need know whereof they speak - that anything you claim is justifiable, any amount of slander or ridiculousness so long as it turns people away from biology, science, and evolution towards your interpretation of the creation account taken from the three-thousand-year-old Tanakh.

You're not talking to a group of ignorant people who don't know what your aims are.
You're not talking to a group of people ignorant of your faith, your myths, your superstitions, the tenets of your religion. You're not talking to people who need your questionable guidance regarding supposed morals.

We aren't fooled by you.

Can you prove it?

I call finger monkey!

If I want your opinion I'll ask Ulrika.

Things that I can reasonably infer about Kevn:

Kevn isn't a biologist.

Kevn is a Christian Fundamentalist.

Kevn thinks George Bush being in office (or any politician, really) is good /specifically/ because that politician shares his particular religious views (way to turn politics into football!)

Kevn reads and is preached to from 1st corinthians chapter fifteen a lot. And Revelations chapter twenty, too.

See, I'm up in the air and I want to find out straight from Kevn -

I can infer that he rejects the notion that one is saved by works.

I can infer that he feels that one is saved by faith.

Or is it from /faith that works/?

Wow. i think you just totally fucked Kevn up via el beeblay.

You see, Billybob, when someone has basically the same opinion about certain things** as Ulrika, that person is obviously Ulrika's alt. Doesn't that make all the sense in the world to you?

You're too Centrist to ever be an Ulrika alt.

**By certain things, I mean only the threads Kevn trolls.

So, by your own admission, if I get Ulrika to tell you precisely this, and demand an answer from you - you'll give the straight answer and deal with the fact that you're violating the tenets of your supposed faith by lying about evolution - right? Or will it be more evasion and sophistry? Scared that someone knows more about your religion than you do? Scared that your behaviour has you in the hands of an Angry God - angry at you for keeping the letter but raping the Spirit? I've seen you chastise people for making evasions fom your remarks - stick to your values, man! Sit down and deal with it! Ulrika - by your own insinuated remarks - won't treat you any differently!

You're part right:
There is certainly no proof that EVERYONE evolves.



No, sorry, I'm working my way through Shakespeare now. I'll get to the second-most popular work of fiction in the English language in a few decades.

Wrong. Talkorigins (if you've ever taken the time to read and understand it) is written by scientists and biology professors who approach questions very rationally, with ample evidence to support their points. The Mormons are a religious group who, like any religious group, simply state their opinions. Of course, on the bottom end of the food tree are people like Discovery Institute who not only publish opinion, they lie and disguise it as "scientific fact" when it's nothing of the kind.


Except for that one troubling little detail, Kevn: they're right. If you don't know enough about evolution to know what you're talking about, sometimes it's best not to say a thing. Take the hint, k?

To get back around to topic.

The anti-evolutionists are the result of a Faustian bargain that the Republican party made with various extremist biblical literalists - in return for persuading their congregations that voting for anyone but the Republican candidate was voting against their deity's choice, the Republicans would scratch the biblical literalists' backs - and so we have the result of the past six years and two more to come:

"elections" that defy statistical trending and operated via unaccountable, decades-old technology that can be hacked, cracked, and smacked by the flip of a switch or the insertion of a camera memory card -

A head of state that stood up and proclaimed a CRUSADE in a state of the union address -

major science departments (nasa, FDA) and the Supreme Court even, where candidates and appointees produced have only their religious tenets and loyalty to their religion and the Republican Party as the deciding factors and where sometimes even no other qualifications -

billions of dollars in "faith-based intiatives" handed out to churches to do with as they please with little or no oversight -

a major terrorist attack on our soil that was preventable -

a major natural disaster that was preventable -

complete incomeptence in handling the consequences of that natural disaster -

the stalling of medical science due to superstition -

the unwanted intervention in the practice of medicine by superstition -

The repeat of Germany's invasion of Czechoslovakia, except this time it's Iraq -

unconstitutional wiretapping of almost every major internet service provider -

and thousands of people dead -

By the leave or design of the same people who are peddling the routinely debunked myth that "evolution is a lie".

People who actually understand the teachings of the Christ are mighty angry and want answers about why these things happened, and why you collaborated.

HEY! Mormonism IS fact!!

Kevin:

Whether evolution, which is a larger thing than you seem to believe it is (you seem to think the only thing it's about is humans coming from apes) is true or not, there is at least a science to the study of it.

Please tell me about the study of creationism, besides "bible study".

Bible study does not belong in a science class, it belongs in a literature class, or a bible study class at a private religious school. If you want to promote the idea of teaching religious beliefs in public schools, that's a different debate completely.

If you should decide to respond to this message in an inflammatory way (like, "Did I ask for your opinion?" when you -were- asking for people's opinions, or "You don't know anything!" instead of actually having a discussion, then you are simply a troll.

How do you suppose I should respond to your post?

I have never suggested the only alternative to Evolutionism is Creationism as read literally from the Bible. So let's do away with that misconception now.

I am never rude, and what I said to Finning was because every last word was a repeat of what Ulrika has said a hundred times before. Ulrika has been caught using alts, and even went so far as to create a thread suggesting she will create many alts to use in the forums. One can tell an alt by writing style, content and mannerisms.

If you really want to discuss Evolutionism, let me know what you mean, micro-evolution or Macro-evolutionism. Then we can have a nice little chat about it.

I promise to never insult your intelligence by suggesting you go inform yourself of what I think is true. I will listen to your points and counter them with information I find compelling.

Finning, I know I'm apparantly an alt of yours, according to His "Holiness", but I'd like to thank you for those posts. You've given me well thought-out ammunition against ignorance and intolerance.

As for the "We're not from monkeys" person,

Um. As has been said, first off, it's apes. Monkeys have tails.
Second, all it states is that we share a common ancestor, like cats do.
We're classified as "Great Apes", along with Orang Utans, Gorillas and Chimpanzees (and Bonobos, although they're still considered in the same genus as Chimps.)
We share 98% of DNA in common with Bonobos. They passed the mirror-recognition test for self-awareness (The fabled Knowledge of Good and Evil fron Genesis). Kanzi, an ape in Iowa can communicate using symbols. Not parrot, communicate.

Is that not proof enough?

Then take a look at the other posts here.

If you still can't see the proof in this, I'm not sure what else to say.
What else are you looking for? What kind of proof do you want?