Will Your Event Be Ruined?

Hi, I am Naydee. I am a DJ .. who sought places to play Big Band and Swing. No one wanted to hire me when I started, So I created the Blue Note. After almost 7 months of creating an atmosphere for a romantic one of a kind event on Saturday Nights, I found a dream that came true and so many people loved to be there. I never thought it would happen ... I never saw the Blue Note getting to be the icon of SL that is has become and honestly, it was very overwhelming at first. I really just love to DJ and I love the music that I play.

I have recently had a neighbor move in directly behind our quaint beach in Tuliptree and it has become mass disorder. The shop is a DJ equipment shop (ie.. meaning it contains flashing lights, floors, moving water.. tons of animation) I asked this person why they would put such an eyesore behind my dream .. and yes, my view on it is skewed I am sure .. because this all meant so much to me. I know he is another designer in SL who has worked hard and it trying to make a business out of work and I totally understand that with P2P now in place, he doesnt need to spend the money on a commercial area for his business. We have had the Lindens there several times, people are very upset about what he has done to the area with the *looks* of the place.... but moreso ... its the lag. I tried to explain to the owner that often the whole sim fills with patrons of the Blue Note ... full.. and no one else can get in. He was rude, defensive and has raised his flashing lights up to 10 stories high in response. He is upset with the harrassment he has recieved. I am torn up over not only losing my dream ... but also that the land it sits on now is not worth what it was before he moved in. Our Land group has lost ALOT of money because of this one rental neighbor.

As much as I would like to sit here and whine about this being my dream crushed.... the real issue here is..... What is going to happen to your land value? When laggy stores move in next door and degrade the value of your land? What is going to happen to the the land value in Secondlife overall? ... If all these stores are allowed to move all over the place now, What happens to SL? All of these stores .. or a good amount of them were in mall or commercial areas. They were all on their own servers... hence, they held their own lag in their own places. Now, if they move all over the map, What happens to our life in SL? Are we destined to a lag hell?

Linden staff have been at my beach several times and say that the lag is fine.
#1 .. The lag in Tuliptree was always low, that is what created such a quality event at the Blue Note

#2 .. You may not be as lagged once you load at the Blue Note, BUT ..... it takes Twice .. three times .. the amount of time to load there now because you HAVE to load those textures from the store next to the Jazz Lounge. Sure.. Come to the Blue Note, in 5 minutes you may be able to see your dance partner!! (Maybe)

So.. Okay, its not bad when there are ten people there, but what happens when the sim fills to the top in 10 minutes like it did last Saturday? People crash, People now have lag to add to the slow loading time .. and when they come back, they have to do it all over a second time.


So what has happened to the Blue Note? I dont honestly know. I do know that I wont hold events there and make people feel like they are at one of the top dance clubs in Secondlife. That is what made the Blue Note special. It wasnt so bad that you couldnt move. It was lovely.


Answers to this? I only have one suggestion and that would be to create specific areas for stores so they are on their own servers and so they dont ruin the experience for everyone. Otherwise, we are all in jeopardy of losing our land value and creating the laggiest SL ever.

No one can lag you without lagging themselves. Why don't you offer to help them reduce it for both your benfits

The owner of the land doesnt care ... the person is a renter .... and there is no way to lessen the lag of having to load those textures. That is his business Blue. Its what he does. He makes flashing animated objects.
And when we tried to build a wall to cover it, he just fought back with making the flashing lights go up 10 stories into the sky ... he is defensive and so am I ... its a stalemate and neither of us wins here.

Something else .. needs to be done.

So what if I had a nice little country house, peace and tranquility and then all of the sudden, someone builds a club next to my nice little house and the sim is now full of traffic and lag?

What if I went to tell the owner of the club and nicely suggested he go somewhere else or reduce the traffic at his club so I could regain my privacy and the sim's tranquility? What do you think would be the response?


Scratch "store" and replace with "club". IMHO Equally annoying...

ah I see.. hmmm and I bet he has vendors on top of that..... eesh so he sells lag

Well this is a long time problem......

Ahh he said too bad, boo hoo .. cry some more and If I keep getting harrassed about this from people I will lag you so bad that I will shut you down.


and he has every right to do whatever he wants .. on HIS parcel.

ooo that looks like a threat... wonder if that's AR material?

and NOTHING has been done.

my RL experiences runing a business with similar problems, the solution i found was to try and appease both parties.

Perhaps since you're a club type of atmosphere as well, maybe your patrons would be interested in some of the items he sells? Perhaps trying to create a working business agreement would help both of you out; i.e in exchange for him setting things on a trigger to activate all the lights or whatnot whenever anyone enters his shop, or reducing the amount of lights constantly going at once, you could place a free advertising banner and teleporter for his shop in your club? in return, you would get less lag in your club, and he would get free advertising and more traffic to his business?

edit: if it would help you out any, i will offer my scripting services for free to create any teleporters, triggers on lights, or whatever =)

in a place where people feel like they cant move?... or the music stream is skipping out?
There is no compromise. I need to sell the land and pack up and go home...


The issue is what happens when this same thing happens to everyone else?

If you dont believe me, Clear your cache, relog .. and port to the Blue Note .. and see how long it takes to load up.


and feel free to check my profile to see what happens when you ask a guy who makes moving signs to lessen his lag .... (I was so mad, but in retrospect... its really almost funny) LOL

it happened in a plot that i own as well, purely residential area that someone bought 2 16m plots around me and placed billboards that were not too great in taste (bsdm club, escort service, and "realistic multifunction pierced penis!" i first asked nicely, and when it came to the point of no compromise, i built 50' walls around my plot, covering his signs pretty well, then reported to the advetisee's that their billboards were unviewable. we finally settled upon a height of 50m up in the air minimum on the boards. too bad some people are just selfish and stubborn, and unwilling to negotiate =/

I've been on every side of this.. I've lagged, I've been lagged...but I"ve never had a major place hurt. My home has gotten laggy but never my business.

My solution was always to move.... but with a business... well that sucks.

So a person has a right to move in and do what they like...but it effects your current establishment. In RL this is what zoning is for. I work at an engineering firm and the first thing we have to when building something is first see if we are allowed to... and even if we are allowed to we see if it's really going to gel with what is there.

The idea of Zoning is some horrible Natzi, communist ideas to some, but it addresses this very problem.

Now my school is a VERY zoned area.. I'm not allowed to have any vendors or to have any laggy objects. The sim next to me is commerical, and is full of vendors... but in a place you want it to be (remember sim city??)

We have "PG" and "mature" areas..... now this is just an idea.. but what if we had....

PG - Commercial
Mature -Residentail.

Just an idea. LL

As far as the Blue Note I can't think of any solution but for one of you to move....

hmmmmm a showdown?

**** tumble weed goes by ******

In RL .. we wouldnt allow that to happen and a town zoning board would be able to veto anyone trying to build a business like that in a residential area

Through studious inaction on this issue since forever, the Lindens have established a de facto "buy your own sim or suffer" or, given the experiences of some, "buy your own sim and you won't have to suffer neighbors, just the bad performance of the grid generally".

They hide behind a "your land, your right to screw your neighbors out of the sim" when it really is more of a "we don't care, we don't have to, and if it increases demand for each player to be an island, hey happy accident for our revenue".

Almost makes you want to set up a computer to sit in a camping chair all day.

Clubs and stores go hand in hand as far as lag goes, with clubs holding a slight edge in my book. Maybe not your specific club, but you seem to think that the stores are the main problem and they are not by themselves in lag city.

As for your club, is it true you could pack the sim with no lag? Is it packed such that other residents in the sim can't get home? I wonder how they would feel about that? Perhaps you should have regular sit-ins that grind the sim to a halt. Hard for a club (or store) to be successful in that atmosphere.

No clubs and stores in the same zoning area in RL? Try no clubs and lounges in residential areas.

zoning would be an awesome idea! i definately believe a neighborhood should be a neighborhood, and a business should be in a business sector. a few concerns arise, though:

1) what about people that are already in a certain area? surely we couldn't require them to move; maybe any new businesses opened? and if current businesses in residential areas are sold, they become flagged as residential only?

2) With the PG = business and mature = residential, what about sex clubs, combat arenas, etc?

I totally agree with Gabe and he is right ... but, when this happened... 4 out of 5 of the neighbors of the Blue Note Showed up... and if there had been a vote, I can tell you that our neighbors love our build and support it. It is only once a week that I run an event.... same bat time, same bat place... thats how it got as popular as it is....... really.

So basically, How about we say this to be fair ... because the real problem is the animations and the scripts .... (which I have very few of myself) *nothing moves* LOL

Clubs ..and Stores...... vendos, moving lights and animated floors .. in one.
*****(I dont have any of those, by the way)

I don't want to be next to suburban houses, and I don't want to be next to laggy tringo parlors either. A simple commercial vs. residential is not enough, and I don't think that you could come up with zoning that would actually work.

When people buy land, they expect to be able to do what they want, and they should be able to, even if it is in poor taste. We all have the problem of the neighbor whose tastes are the opposite of our own, or someone who crashes our events to complain that they annoy their customers, or sets every item on their property to glow, or has sound effects that spill over onto our property, or so on and so on.

I wouldn't move, though; ususally when someone builds something dreadful, they go out of business pretty quickly. I would put up a tasteful backdrop of some kind to hide their laggy blinking textures. There is not much you can do about the scripts lagging things out, though.

The problem with zoning is that you can never find the land that you want in the zone that you want. It just makes the whole problem even more difficult.

At any rate, zoning would not solve the problem that began this thread, because both plots are commercial establishments.

When you said ... Both are commercial .... doesnt that mean that I would be actually making money? See, thats something that most patrons of mine dont even realize.. and thats that I buy Lindens on a regular basis... because I dont sell anything and I dont make any money off the dwell on a place that only runs for 5 hours on a Sat night.
The Blue Note isnt a business... Its something I enjoy doing... and I pay to do it.

Well lets begin with this...We have a DJ Store, NOT A NIGHT CLUB. Most of our stuff is Boxed up and we do our hardest to not contribute to lag. The things we have made and built ARE NON LAG OBJECTS. We have tried to better the DJ Equipment Ect in SL with Low lag objects. (Questions about the Lag, Please Contact a LINDEN)

Next Thing, I spoke with Owner One evening we sat down and tried to come up with a solution to make us ALL Happy. I was more than concerned with what thier issues were all about. She gave us her demands and we did as she asked. Her demands were that we Remove our flashing lights off the roof, and keep the flashy objects on the inside of our building....Which we complied with her demands completely. We had a black building and we even were changing the color of the building to a Pretty White Stucco Outside. For all of our trouble we actually though we could all compromise and make things work.

The next day, We come online and we had dirt in our building (they raised thier land so it would come onto our land and into our Building) and they had put up a wood border that looked terrible. I went over to talk to her, and told her we had an agreement so what was the problem now and that we even went that EXTRA MILE to make it even better by changing the color of the building and make it pretty. All I got out of her was the fact that she was about to Boot My Butt and I needed to Leave.

They have objects that are lagging the sim out when you get people on the sim (Snow Poofers that Keep Poofing, and Bubble Poofers). They also Have textures that are not SL textures which take time to load also. We aren't ruining events anymore than they are.

Okay so please tell me, When you comply with demands and then are smacked in the face again.....What would you do??

Mind you this is a mature area...and we could have put out a porn store or many other offensive objects. Which we have no desire to do this. She has a buisness as do we.....and the fact of the matter is this, SL doesn't have residential and commercial property guidelines. Maybe this should be something that should be implemented.


My Hubby is still getting threatening IMS Daily... The Owners of the Blue Note don't want you to know that they are being extremely rude, and having many others IM us and be rude also. Granted my Hubby has been rude back because he is tired of dealing with this, and especially after trying to meet the demands and being slapped in the face for doing it.

I Haven't reported abuse for several reasons.....they have a right to build what they want in SL as Do we. So either we can be civil or they can keep on doing what they are doing and we will just ignore the whole thing.

Have a Great Night and My Regards to all

Mikayla, with all due respect, this is not an accurate representation of what has transpired.

Now let me say for all to hear that you are a far more reasonable and pleasant person to deal with than your husband. And while both sides have done their share of name calling as this has escalated, I have been generally impressed by your willingness to listen and to even suggest compromise. However, what is also clear is that your husband does not share your temperament. He has been rude and hardheaded, slinging every four-letter-word known to mankind at the owners of the Blue Note, and even at it's supportive patrons.

Your husband's choice to locate his store adjacent to the Blue Note was not an accident. He chose this spot for it's popularity and the chance that patrons of the Blue Note might visit his store. He told me that he has been very happy with the dwell he has received thus far and this is one of the reasons that he does not wish to relocate.

Your husband's decision to make a grand spectacle of his store was also not an accident. All of the flashing textures and spinning lights are designed to grab attention from a distance and they are very effective at this. In fairness, this is the stuff his store actually sells, so having them on display is makes sense. But integrating these displays into the roof structure, or removing the roof altogether creates a powerful visual pull. Indeed, it is quite hard to avoid having your eyes continually drawn to the explosion of color and dancing geometric shapes just over the back wall of the Blue Note.

Your husband's complete disregard for the quiet romantic setting into which he dropped his store is also not an accident. He chose the location specifically for the draw created by the popular Blue Note club; he constructed a build specifically designed to pull the attention of visitors to the Blue Note, and in initial communications, when things were still quite pleasant and the possibility of compromise was good, he was obnoxious and offensive.

He has upset not only the owners of the Blue Note, but virtually every land owner in the immediate area. All have contacted him in one form or another, and he has been equally rude to them all.

While he is clearly within his rights to set up a store like this anywhere he chooses, he has angered a great many people in the process. Naydee has spent more than seven months building the Blue Note and providing a romantic setting for couples who enjoy jazz and swing music. The success of this location is hers, not your husband's. His decision to capitalize on her success, and to destroy the location in the process, is parasitic at best. If the Blue Note relocates, there is little benefit to your staying in your rental spot and your husband will likely move on to find another host.

The IMs you are receiving are neither organized or encouraged by Naydee or the owners of the Blue Note. What you are hearing is the honest frustration and disappointment of supporters of this location that do not wish their experience to be destroyed by your husband's business practices.

While some compromises have certainly been made (we appreciated the removal of the flashing textures on the roof, and the recoloring of the exterior walls), there is still more that would need to be done to ensure that this store is not an eyesore for visitors to the Blue Note.

Issues of lag are certainly debatable and reasonable arguments can be made either way. However, please note that on a typical Saturday night with a sim packed with 40 people, and another dozen people banging on the sim borders to get in, it already takes the average Blue Note visitor more than 5 minutes to download all of the textures for the surrounding area. Your husband's store will certainly degrade this performance to some additional degree.

In conclusion, we recognize that it is within your husband's rights to place a store here, to make it as flashy as possible, and to even be rude about it all. But please understand how many people you are hurting in the process.

As I said in my last IM to you, it is very clear to me that you are reasonable and empathetic, even if your husband is not. We would very much like to resolve this issue peacefully, and soon. I encourage you to contact any of the owners of the Blue Note if you wish the same.

With respect,

Persevil Moxie

Well...its a sticky situation but the thing you said about buying lindens throws me off. I believe that people should create and make there own money, and if they cant create, thye shoudl work, but thats just my opinion. People who buy Lindens are a waste of Second Life space. People who do not add to the second life economy are just wasting my time. Second Life is full of clubs. Try going to any club anywhere and see if you load faster than 5 minutes. This is a gridwide problem not just your sim and your land. Also, you shouldnt clean your cache unless you are having serious issues. Cleaning your cache will make you load slower. No one has any right to tell anyone to move or change what they are doing on there land, even if they are renting. If you dont like your neighbors, I suggest you start packing up your bongos and find a new spot. Good Luck.

Cazzi ....... its not club. point blank. Its a place where people come all week .. sparingly 2 maybe 4 at a time... because its a nice environment. Its a romantic spot to dance and I keep big band and swing music on the place all the time, so people just meander in.
*laughs* .. Im sorry I am laughing at you saying that because I buy lindens that my efforts in SL are a waste of time HAHAHA
I build alot of things and just because I dont have the time nor the interest to market them because I am worrying about creating a nice place for people to meet, dance and romance does not me me a *ZERO* in Secondlife
*still laughing*

The reason I wrote the post was to bright to light what P2P is going to do to all of Secondlife ... not just what it has done to mine.

Naydee McGettigan wow ur a huge loser for one for 2 ur club sucks and 3 u have no life so u should alt f4 life and cut ur self, and another thing maybe if u tried ur hand at something other then complaing u might have a better time. i mean for u to say that ppl dont show up maybe because its repatitious and ur doing the same thing all the time ooo lets go listen to jazz music o tons of fun and hosting an event once a week gets u no where,but then agian u dont care that ur making money so why harrass ppl that are trying to make money grow up ur suspoda be an adult and u act like a child, O btw(by the way) want some cheese with that wine??? *HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH* *POINTS AND LAUGHING* OOO STILL LAUGHING*
AND THANKS FOR DESTROYING SL ECONOMY
WASTE OF SPACE NO WONDER NO 1 SHOWS UP AT UR EVENTS