Classes in SL

I'm new, this is maybe my fifth day. And I've been looking for classes because I found this game rather "unstructured" and realised I needed to teach myself or find someone to teach me. I've found that the best substitute for classes, since there are none (practically), is a static, self-guided tutorial (I'm talking about Ivory Tower Library in Noya?).

That library is a building tutorial. It taught me how to build. It gave me a notecard for a bunch of different techniques and once I left the tutorial I retained all the notecards. Similar beginner clothing, animation, scripting tutorials are of much more value and benefit to the community if they can be statically located and accessed at any time.

It would seem to me that classes are better for more advanced skills. Teach me to animate this horse I just built. Teach me how to script a cool strip-tease. If I know the basics, then I can advance, but if I have to wait a week and a half just for a relavant "live-taught" class, I'm quitting before my trial runs out.

This may be too random, but it seems that this game would be better served with an elected body of players. We need zoning rules (maybe a Las Vegas-type area for all the tringo, clubs and casinos and we need a bigger noob welcome center with static tutorials and guides.

I know, this is an idea for my own island, but I can see how this game would have issues retaining players past a few days. And how the entire community would be benefited by taking time to educate new players.

Excuse my noob rant. I hope my comments help.

I should probably clarify that LL is trying to move away from subsidising in general and increasing the stipend from $500L is extremely unlikely. Given some changes to the current policies that would make it easier to apply to become an instructor, an improved event calendar and a few other system tweaks in the works, what do people think of the idea of charging for classes instread? I haven't heard that idea come up much in this thread....

$100L to learn Alpha Textures etc.

Mostly becuase charging would shoot the idea in the foot.

A) Most people wanting to learn are new and therefore only have a limited amount of money and the little stripend they get and the startup money won't last long.

B) Most people pay for a class becuase they get something noone else gets. All the information is freely handed out here and many people will help you with one problem or another.

Jesse,

I agree with Foulcault.

It is already hard to attract residents to a class event, in part because they're 'following the money,' so to speak. Charging for a class event in the current environent will likely be the final nail in the current coffin called SL's educational event system.

I have to agree with Foulcault, and even take it a step further and say that it's very difficult to get people to pay for ANY event; that's just the state of things in SL. You think instructors complain about low attendance now? Try charging.

I would rather not get paid anything than charge people to learn.. But if LL do want to reward people for holding classes, L$500 just doesn't cut it for the work thats involved..

The other thing about Mentor show and tells and things was that you not only got L$500 for hosting but you got L$500 in prize money to give away.. Something similar for the most improved student or a short contest at the end would be nice too...

Idealy for classes I'd like to see..

1: Having to send in a report rather than having the class "pre-aproved". It makes the whole thing very trying.

2: A change in the events calender to seperate out classes

3: No "5 people" attenance rule

4: Ideally more funding, although I understand its not gonna happen . Maybe prize money to make up for it?

Zap

Well the event I held last night had a high turnout then I thougth but not alot of people actually doing the event about 50/50 Total number present 10-15 including me and glossy who were hosting the event. We even offered prize money to the best one made and future plans include vendor space in a special vendor that would give them the profits (if just for prize winner or all not sure).

Problem here I think is:
A) If you can't build, script, animate, or texture with mastery then you are taking a job AWAY from those that might be able to teach it. I can't build well but I dang well understand it enough to help teach a class and still learn myself.

B) Few will pay for a teaching class cause of the low turn out. This makes it almost impossible for those willing to teach to even get an event going. Heck hard enough just to do anything that doesn't give the person L$ (Which might be an intersting look. If it is hard to get people without L$ being offered then maybe not enough moeny going to the small guy)

C) Certain lessons would cause alot of objects all over the palce and not everyone can afford to have a private sandbox sort to speak. (we had to put a prim limit on the contest)

In my head, I keep coming back to the idea that classes are not the same thing as events.

What if there was a tab in the Find window, entirely separate from the Events tab, called Education? In other words, change the paradigm so that expectations are different for classes than events.

And what if instead of $500 per class, people who signed up to be "official" instructors received an additional stipend of (for example) $2500 per month as long as they complete (for example) any combination of six of the bulleted activities below each month:
*Teach a class
*Perform as an instructor's assistant for two classes
*Create teaching materials for a class
*Write a class outline to be used as a shared teacher's reference
*Create a standalone tutorial to be made publicly available
*etc.

Not perfect, but you get the idea.

K.

Charging won't work for the reasons others have stated in previous posts.

Small History Lesson:

A year ago you had hourly notifications that reminded people of events and classes. LL took that away even with my suggestion to have them automated so the Liasons didn't hafta sit around writing them up.

Attendance to ALL events dropped NOTICABLY right after that. SL Basics classes were the hardest hit, as omg I been saying this forever now: new folks just dont SEE that Events button, they really don't. 5-10 times a day I get to see new folk's eyes light up when I point out that button and the other goodies on the toolbar.

Many residents who did those events as a consquence closed up shop as the work put into such classes and events sure felt like a waste of time when you have ZERO attendees.

Few months back LL had a system to pay event hosts, educational or not, and in such a way that you could at the same time get compensated for your money and time put into it, and give out something to those attending. Great way to draw in folks. Lots of people learned, attendees & hosts were happy: win-win all the way around.

That got taken away also, and new system implemented where its just easier to throw a basic contest then get approval for anything educational; not to mention the narrow interpretation of that to begin with.

Few months back you could say just post up an event or class on land you didn't happen to own, and therefore if you were a renter and/or landless you COULD add to the content and throw a class or two at venues offered as learning spaces or your own rented land.

LL recently made THAT process very difficult to accomplish; as you know have to rely on another person's schedule ie your landlord or land owner in order to get set up.

Now you want suggestions on how to make things all better. And those tweaks and things are wonderful and all but its barndooring if you ask me. I tried to be polite with my first post, but really. Good luck with this educational program thingy.

Cuz I give up.

Launch of Volunteer Management Page!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

POSTED BY LL TODAY:

Starting today, you will be able to better manage your Volunteer experience within Second Life via the Your Account link on the web site.

Key Features of the Volunteer Management Page:

- Ability to apply for SL Volunteer Programs
- View and track your status in SL Volunteer Programs
- Edit your volunteer profile information (for the Greeter and Live Help programs)
- End your volunteer term

This is the first step in integrating the different SL Volunteer Programs (Mentors, Instructors, Live Helpers and Greeters) into one larger pool of Volunteers. Also, in the future, this page will provide updates and other information directed towards SL Volunteers.

In other SL Volunteer news, we will be soft launching the SL Greeter Program next week! Watch these announcements for more information.

So Now as I see it Mentors and instructors are all SL Volunteers ???

The Live Helpers were a weak tool as they really could do nothing but hear you out and pass one more email to the LL staff. But still a tool however useful, The Geeks did it for the fun and we all love and adour Geeks. But not only taking most of the two way street away from the TEACHING of useage of mine and your Game, NOW Just come complety out of the closet with not only are we not going to replace any tools that worked before but mentors will be all VOLUNTEERS WHAT !! do I look like the frecken Red Cross $#!$#%

My Time is dear to me ingame, Your playing your " Some will still come Card " the human need to teach and show other of our kind. Man- this is not the way what planet are you people from ?

-WL

Looks like its all been summed up here prety good.

1. SL residents love teaching, its fun --- but its a lot of work you are asking of us for only $500L. It use to be worth it -- back in the day - but the changing economy made it not so much. Sorry LL, but if you want us to teach -- we want $1000.

2. New players want cash too -- why should they go to a class when they can go find a money tree? Give us $500 in prize money to hand out. Come on - dont be such tight wads -- you can afford it -- its all virtual.

2. The classes are getting lost in between Sexy AV and Tringo in the calendar. New players just dont know what to look for or where to go - theres no structure, direction or guidance. Also return SL notification when they occur.

3. The turn out will be good if a variety of classes can be offered. Your SL residents have the knowledge and the ability to put these together for you -- you just need to make it worth our while. Sorry Jesse - LL wants to play hard ball and not give us cash, we can play hard ball too, and not give you what you want --and this is what you want:

Standard SL Classes
Building 101
Advance Building
Scritping 101
Advance Scripting
Particles 101
Advance Particles
Textures 101
Advance Textures
Land Management 101
Advance Land Management
Animations & Gestures 101
Advance Animation and Gestures
How to Make Money
How to Make a Plane
How to Make a Car
How to Make a Boat
How to Make a "Flying Pesty Anima that Follows You Aroundl"
How to Make a Sky Lift
How to Make an Avatar
How to Make a Skin
How to Make Clothes
How to Stream Music
How to Stream Video
How to Put On Clothes from a Box
How to Manage Your Inventory
How to Make a Vendor
How to Host an Event
How to Use the SL Interface

SL Residents Electives
African Art and Textiles
How to Use Poser
How to Use Photoshop
Scotish Lore and Make a Kilt
USA Lore and Make Fireworks
{Head hurts - im sure there are others}

SL Learn and Play
Build A Plane Contest
Build A Car Contest
Build a Flower Contest
6 Prims and 1 Script Contest
Show and Tell
SL Trivia Contest

Ok, get back to us when you got this all fixed up and you have the combination to the Linden vault.

Have your people call my people and our people can do lunch.

WOMAN

You scar me sometimes,

you and Brace are not alowed to talk about me together !

LOL

Kisses Baby

Hi handsome!

LL just needs to stay realistic here. I don't particularly care which direction you go, but you cannot have your cake and eat it too.

If you do not want to spend the money to pay for your own documentation people, that is fine, but do not expect to solve all your newbie orientation and learning issues for a complex system entirely on the backs of free residents labor.

You might see people paying for very advanced classes where the instructor has a solid reputation, but not for basic classes. SL is in a transition phase when it comes to paying for services, and do not expect a change in user behavior any time soon.

Not to mention -- think of the simple psychology to a new player: you are marketed this game by LL or another resident. LL says it costs "X" to play. Most products come with some intructions as part of that "X", but LO! you are being nickeled-and-dimed right off the bat just to learn how to play this strange game you haven't even explored yet. (granted most instructions stink, but LL doesn't have to be mediocre like everyone else). New players want to spend money on fun stuff, not on learning the basics.

You are only going to face more newbie frustration as the percentage of new SL members shifts to mainstream users, rather than techies and creatives who are motivated and skilled at self-learning.

I personally dislike most subsidy structures, but you have a quandary here that needs to be solved. Paying a contractor for labor is not a subsidy. If you have no incentive structure (whether monetary or other), the quality of educational work will suffer as will the volume. Frustration will rise as you put the bulk of the work on residents but do not put any structures in place to put the results of their efforts in the hands of those who need it.

You need to incentivize educators by either 1. compensation; 2. making them feel like someone is actually SEEING their work and benefiting from it. i.e. there is no point wasting tons of hours intended to help your fellow man, if it's only you in a closet.


You've got some thinking to do here jesse (and robin), but stay pragmatic about human nature, about the complexity of your product, about the shifting demographics of your users, how to keep educational quality high and efficient, etc.

I think the points being made between Tang and Forseti's posts is extremely valid.

SL is essentially presented as a program - not a game. Though people come into the world expecting a game, a game structure and laid out goals, SL's biggest surprise for most new people seems to be that there are only self-assigned/developed goals. The second biggest surprise, in my experience, is that LL does not provide a manual, any intuitive tutorials or even 24/7 PAID tutors/guides.

Instead, having been out of BETA mode for what, two years now, LL continues to rely on residents to provide documentation of the system, to teach new residents, and even to test its software --- preferably at little to no cost to LL. Now, before you think that this is wandering off into a diatribe against LL, give me a couple more paragraphs to make the point.

As Tang delineated and Forseti amplified, 1) there is a lot that new people want and need to learn about SL in order to have the experience that they desire (and that LL supposedly wants them to have), and 2) LL seems to not want to "pay" what is necessary to "pay" for SL to actually "work" (without residents'/av's doing things, creating things, interacting, there would be no SL,only a dead world in virtual neverland).

Residents will interact - basic human nature. Residents will explore - same reason. Residents will experiement - okay, I am repeating myself now. However, the spread of knowledge without some semblance of organization in the communicative network/structure is haphazard at best, inconsistent over time, quality and quantity, AND is open to misuse, abuse and distortion by the ethically-challenged, the malicious and the immature amonst us. Consequently, consider the following.

If you bought a game on today's market and there were NO manual, no stated goal, and no interaction with other players, what would you do? That is, if you logged onto SL, saw no one, heard no one, and never found the wiki, the Ivory Tower of Primitives or thought to click on the infamous green SL hands that are in a limited number of locations and whose contents are "apparently random" in terms of location... well, why would you continue to "play"? I submit that the true geeks, those that stumble across some moddable/open scrips and a few others would continue to return - for an indeterminate period. However, most people aren't geeks and would leave within a week's play time.

Eventually, the world would lose its appeal for even the most intrigued.

So, LL relies on residents to fill the gaps. They don't MAKE anyone volunteer to share knowledge, to teach or anything like that. But the SL population today is not the SL population of alpha or beta times. The bulk of SL residents are not geeks, code freaks or professional/talatend amatuer graphics gurus who can figure out the intricacies and interactions required to make Photoshopped clothes work with SL's artistic "design structure".

Sure there are a few templates. Sure the help file has been replaced by the wiki --- but the latter actually makes my point. It's resident driven, been resident driven and been poorly acknowledged or "rewarded" by LL. I believe that I am correct in saying that SL's single BEST educational experience is/has been the Ivory Tower - developed and funded entirely by residents, not by LL... at least, I haven't heard that Lumiere Noir ever got any kind of price break on his land tier payments or any specific help from LL in developing his tutorials (and I do know that other residents did help him develop some of them - but it's essentially "his baby", right?).

So, Jesse/LL. You want to move away from "move away from subsidising in general", especially where educating residents, both new and old, is concerned. Good luck to you. You are signing LL's/SL's death warrant in a manner of speaking.

I haven't been to a class in nearly half a year, have only occasionally held impromptu classes for newbs on my own as I ran across them and as seemed appropriate. I'd go to a good class in a heartbeat - I won't pay much to go to many. My monthly fee/subscription/tier payment, I feel, ENTITLES me to education classes provided by or at least supported by LL. Hell, I am not the only person who has "invested" over 1000USD in real money (tier fees, etc.) to play here. If there were a manual, I'd RTFM. But there isn't a comprehensive one - nothing close to what is a "player's guide" as opposed to a coder's guide.

And LL wants to end all education-related stipends while trying to reinvigorate the education area? DOH.

BTW, I have some non-virtual land to sell you... it's on Mars. You just have to figure out how to get there on your own.

I do not like the idea of paying for classes either. When I first signed up, I didnt know anything about the money system. I did know, that as a basic player, I had very little. Everything I saw cost money. BUT... for the most part, classes were free... at least the beginning ones. So I spent my time going to classes... until there was a price.... because, again, there was no money coming in and I didnt know what I needed.

What is one of the first things a newcomer asks? Most everyone I have run into says, "How do I make money." So, we say to that newcomer, use up all the money that you do have so that MAYBE you can make some? Instant player attrition.

Now, if there is a cost for materials in a make-it/take-it workshop, that is different. The consumer sees a result for his/her dollar. However, going in an taking chances on coming out with some knowledge that you didnt have before is a bit risky for all of us... esp the new person with no money.

Maybe for intemediate or higher end classes/demonstrations/events/whatever, a charge might be reasonable as was mentioned.

I don't believe the stipend really needs to be raised. But, it is important to the basic level person (and others, too) to have recognition for their work. The cost of rating someone is not cheap either... so that avenue is dead. Few people, in my experience, even use ratings much anymore.

You may have noticed along the way that people need to work for SOMETHING... recogniton, power, money, something. Not everyone is able to put that aside in teaching for the greater good. The enjoyment fades quickly. In SL with the typed message and the confusion tht occurs in discussions and classes because typing is not amenable to multiple questions/comments, there is a need to work toward some sort of reward. Yes, there are people who will trudge on regardless of recognition.. but check out their quality of product after awhile.

Actually, I think that the number of classes are going to increase once SL becomes stable. A number of newbie programs have been mentioned. I have self-teaching tutorials on Texturing and Inventory at Dreams, adjacent to Touchstone and the rest of the Mighty Prim series is in the works. Jase Byrne and Touchstone are actively working toward a well rounded educational program. Plus, he is provided space upon which to teach beyond the traditional LL areas. I see others on this board are too. So, there are people interested in teaching and there are people who wish to be taught. 2 main ingredients.

The issues that I see are:
1. Keeping SL stable enough that lag or crashing or freezing does not disrupt the class or schedule.
2. Matching up students with available teachers through some means beyond hit and miss and taking for granted that the new person knows what the Events button is.
(How about an educational events sign for the day at each of the sandboxes and newbie areas? You can't depend on orientation. I crashed and never got to finish it.)
3. Making it worthwhile for a teacher to teach. If a master builder or master scripter is going to take time out from doing something for which he/she will be paid, I think some sort of stipend really is needed. (Again, in my mind, you don't need more than is presently there.)
4. Streamline the application process, knowledge of what an educational event is, expand that definition perhaps a bit more, provide a prompt uncomplicated way to record the educational event's results. The event recorders are not accurate.. at least the last ones I used.
5. Make it easier for people to find educational events (classes, discussions, competitions based on SL products ie show and tell, building and scripting competitions).

I know that #1 is a part of SL life. However, there has been a big decrease in educational events since SL stability has been a major issue. Also, #5 is being addressed. #3 sounds like it is going to be more of a problem than presently is. #2&4 maybe needs some looking into.

IMO, of course..
Persevere, Onward and Upward
Soj

I think there are a number of people who like passing on their knowledge who aren't actually skilled as instructors (required patience, etc.) so maybe this would spur a team-approach for mini universities!

One fundamental difference between events and education is that this is education about using the interface system SL has made. This needs to be taught by the employees in some way or contracted out for cheap to players. If we're gonna do the latter, maybe we need to think about how to maximize instructors. It seems we need to empower those who are not yet immersed in their careers as builders and designers to teach. This broader approach might help that.

Oh good point Persephone, I forgot about the skilled instructor stuff.

I think I put together a very well organized class. Beginning, middle, and end to a step by step instruction. And with that, comes lots of explaining and describing which means tons of typing!!! Oh My we are teaching some very complex classes all by typing one liners of chat. And we are doing it in between dozens of new students who are typing and chatting and asking questions.

Face It Lindens, its not an easy task to do. Putting on classes takes some effort. On an evening on game with my friends, just chatting away at non-sensical jokes and other irrelevant blather, I dont type or explain that much.

Now I knolw there are some who can stroke the keyboard pretty darn good, and they like to hear themselves talk -- so for some this may not be an issue. And I fancy myself as a pretty dang good and fast typist - but still. . . .. its work man!!!!!

Now fork over the mula!!! Scratch my back and Ill scratch yours.

The island, Serenite, has an area designed for teaching.

I believe the default on auto-return is 90 minutes which should be enough time for an hour long class. The sim is stable and rates between 900-1000 FPS.

All are welcome to use it. Keith designed it for the Touchstone group but it is not limited to that group.

Please feel free to utilize it. It is rated M as well.

Sereine, I LOVE your island, especially the eagle flying over the big lodge building.

I was also going to suggest a SL University located in one place that could be accessed easily from either the Welcome Area or the Orientation area. My idea is to have a permanent building located near a telehub, with mini tutorials on the basics (what is a Prim, what is a Sim, what is Dwell and First Land, Ulrika's tutorial on basic clothing design, etc.). I've heard of Ivory Tower but haven't visited yet, so maybe I'm just rebuilding the wheel here? I'm sort of new, so wasn't sure if anything like that is available?

I am about to buy a buildling and some land, and had thought to offer it as a University or teaching place (where I can also learn, lol). Classes could be held there 24/7. Mini tutorials via notecards could be available. Mentors/Volunteers could hang out there, whatever. After having a month of fun in SL I want to stay, but I don't want to lead an empty existence dependent on clubbing and tringo (actually have not played tringo and don't get the point of it I'm willing to pay the tier fees and offer the place for a University if anyone is interested. Also willing to post a regular schedule of classes, if someone will show me how to do this and if teachers are willing to participate.

Another idea I had: instructors could advertise private advanced tutorials on SL life which people might be willing to pay for. I really need to learn how to fix the expensive hair I tried to edit last week, lol.

TY for replies.

I agree with most of this

The main problem is how hard it is to put a class in at the moment, if it was straight forward like it used to be, I'd put one in once in a while.

The rest still needs to be addressed though.. I wouldn't consider putting in regular classes without several of the issues being solved..

I'll put in some input here:

I'm a builder, scripter, texturer, and creative.

I get paid a good amount of L$ to put these skills to work for others, and enjoy doing so...

I can build a custom design in a few hours, and possibly get $10,000 for it. More for more complex builds.

Or... I can get 500 for teaching a one hour class. A class that has a MINIMUM of severeral hours to design so that it makes sense.

Now, that is not going to stop me. I still plan on doing classes. I just don't plan on bothering with Linden help to do so (no offense or attack intended). I'll just suck up the cost as a price of doing business and be done.

The point is, though: Why should anyone do classes? No one has given them any reason to do so. Anyone with the skillset you want to be teaching will be effectivly PAYING for the right to have a class, even with the substity, since they will be not doing paying work.

This was not meant to be an attack, Jesse... I'm actually understand the point of view LL has on paying for events. I'm just wanting to point out that the current system actually discourages compitent teachers. Especially in the advanced classes.

Not to mention some with a less generous mindset might see training a group of people who MIGHT replace them later as a BAD THING...


See what I'm talking about?


<sigh> Now I'm depresses about it...

I am a new instructor and have yet to run a class. I agree with everyone that:

a) there is no way you can charge a new player anything to attend a class

b) the payment from LL to an instructor does not cover the work they do to prepare for the class - 1k is more acceptable. After all, LL have not produced help docs or tutorials on a lot of subjects. They would have to pay a great deal more to do that.

c) I have seen classes where 3 or 4 people turn up. The instructor has still done all the preparatory work, so should be paid for it by LL.

d) We definitely need a separate list for teaching events. As everyone says, currently they disappear under a sea of tringo/bingo/slingo/sexy avie events.

e) I wonder if LL ever attend classes to quality control. I joined a newbie friend of mine in a class and was less than impressed by the teacher who did not answer his questions and made some mistakes. Upon being corrected, the person said "whatever".

Lastly, I know the greeters programme will be up and running soon. From my experience of being at the Welcome Area and helping newbies, these are the things they want to know: how do I make money/get a job, what do i do next, how do i wear these clothes you have given me, etc etc. They need someone to take them to the sandbox and show them about opening boxes, given info about free items from the junkyard and other places, how to use the find, events and other tabs. How to bring up their debug menu and told they can turn night into day (why isn't the debug menu default) and so on.

Is a greeter going to do all this? If not, why not?

Alexa

Hi All,

I see a lot of people in this thread whose classes I attended when I was new and it was helpful. I have classes sometimes but usually only 2 or 3 people show up, which is okay with me, I enjoy the one on 2 tutoring. I agree with what everyone says here.

I just had one idea. I hope it's a good one. I know we already have a glut of forums. But I also know I read the forums like I'm eating a bag of potato chips. I just can't get enough of them. What if there was a Classes forum? I know there's an even forum, but I mean just for classes. There could be thread for signing up people. Private Tutoring Threads and so on.

I can see where it might be a problem, but I could also see where it would be a central place for class info.

Much as I hate to give anyone ideas on this subject, most instructors at an adult education level do have to have some kind of minimum attendance in order to have a class "run." This has sucked for me irl before when I had, say, 5 students ready to take an advanced acting class but couldn't run it until I had a 6th participant. (some uni's have higher numbers still to ensure the class will effectively pay for itself). Now the issue here is that we have a scarcity of instructors and classes. I teach about once a month, mainly because I have so little time and it is so much work.

I might teach more, though, if I could teach a different interesting subject. For instance: if I could go to a page (like the add an event page but an add a class page) and select from various already approved classes I could teach (such as building basics, for example) and then could download a text resource with a class outline all prepared, I am certain that I would teach more classes. I am good at teaching as I do this irl, but because I do it irl, I get bored teaching the same two classes over and over (the two I have been approved to teach).