in development now, thought I'd solicit your kind feedback...
let me stress that...this is a work in progress so none of these features are imminent.
we are considering shifting to a system of dynamic pricing. this means you set the amount you want to pay for your advertising in the classifieds section.
* Default display would be sorted by amount paid for the listing. If more than one listing costs the same amount per bidder, the older one will show up 1st on down the list until you reach the newest
* the amount paid for the listing will show up in search results and in the description once an item is clicked.
* classifieds will start with a minimum bid between 75 - 125 Lindens and will run or ONE week instead of two. you will be given the option to renew your ad and place a new bid for higher placement.
* we will no longer allow sorting search results alphabetically because this defeats purpose of dynamic pricing. Searchers can still search using keywords
* categories will remain in tact
KK, DISCUSS ~! ;p
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classifieds shifting to dynamic pricing |
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Jesse Linden
Administrator
Join date: 4 Apr 2005
Posts: 285
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11-29-2005 17:42
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Annah Zamboni
Banannah Annah
Join date: 2 Jun 2004
Posts: 1,022
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11-29-2005 17:44
Sounds good. Gonna have to think about it. In the meantime I'll read all the "what about the poor" replies.
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Lordfly Digeridoo
Prim Orchestrator
Join date: 21 Jul 2003
Posts: 3,628
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11-29-2005 17:47
Paging Google Adwords, come in Adwords...
This sounds good, on paper, but I can see the prices of popular searches (clubs, clothes) going through the roof. Huge money sink. Better think about that too. I like it, I suppose... although I think keeping the two week time would work best, IMO. I'm at work, so I can't fully elaborate.  LF _____________________
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http://www.lordfly.com/ http://www.twitter.com/lordfly http://www.plurk.com/lordfly |
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Burke Prefect
Cafe Owner, Superhero
Join date: 29 Oct 2004
Posts: 2,785
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11-29-2005 17:47
Sounds interesting. Can you force rules that prevent alphabetising hacks in the title?
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Aaron Levy
Medicated Lately?
Join date: 3 Jun 2004
Posts: 2,147
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11-29-2005 17:48
Honestly, its not a good idea and I ask that you not spend time developing it. Work on other, much much more needed projects.
Sort by date posted and leave it at that. My little real-world 2-person computer store pays the same classified rates as Wal-Mart when they take out a classified. Besides, the last thing SL needs more of is spots and places of advertising that only the rich players can afford. The new player will never, ever have their ads seen "at the top of the list," because they can't afford to. So, please. Don't waste time on this. Work on stuff WE CARE ABOUT. _____________________
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blaze Spinnaker
1/2 Serious
Join date: 12 Aug 2004
Posts: 5,898
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11-29-2005 17:50
This will be much much more effective if we had more categories!
_____________________
Taken from The last paragraph on pg. 16 of Cory Ondrejka's paper "Changing Realities: User Creation, Communication, and Innovation in Digital Worlds :
"User-created content takes the idea of leveraging player opinions a step further by allowing them to effectively prototype new ideas and features. Developers can then measure which new concepts most improve the products and incorporate them into the game in future patches." |
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Ron Overdrive
Registered User
Join date: 10 Jul 2005
Posts: 1,002
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11-29-2005 17:52
I see one problem, the little guys like me won't have a chance in hell of getting near the top because the rich would basicly own the higher search results like they do now from traffic with those stupid lagchairs (aka moneychairs). I'd like to have it where you can choose for how long your ad runs though.
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DogSpot Boxer
vortex thruster
Join date: 23 Aug 2005
Posts: 671
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11-29-2005 17:52
Great. They have time to work on crap like this but not to make sure people don't steal shit and resell it.
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Dogspot Boxer
Charter Member Of The Socially Inept Club Our Motto: We may be inept, but at least we're social |
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Ron Overdrive
Registered User
Join date: 10 Jul 2005
Posts: 1,002
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11-29-2005 18:05
Great. They have time to work on crap like this but not to make sure people don't steal shit and resell it. Or work on teh caching issues, the land extortionists, the crashing issues for ATI users, etc., etc. |
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Burke Prefect
Cafe Owner, Superhero
Join date: 29 Oct 2004
Posts: 2,785
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11-29-2005 18:09
PLEASE REFRAIN FROM COMPLAINING ABOUT "THINGS LL SHOULD BE DOING INSTEAD"
This isn't the thread for it. Take that crap elsewhere. Thank you. A dynamic pricing scheme will need some thought put into it or you'll run into a High-Class / Low-Class situation. Which will stifle new players, yada-yada, while feeding the oldbies, yada-yada. Can I recommend a regular purging of classifieds? |
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Hank Ramos
Lifetime Scripter
Join date: 15 Nov 2003
Posts: 2,328
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11-29-2005 18:11
PLEASE REFRAIN FROM COMPLAINING ABOUT "THINGS LL SHOULD BE DOING INSTEAD" This isn't the thread for it. Take that crap elsewhere. Thank you. Shall we talk about Prok instead?  |
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Luth Brodie
Registered User
Join date: 31 May 2004
Posts: 530
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11-29-2005 18:12
Yes this is a very bad idea. The ones that have the money to win these kinds of things would already have the customers. The issues with being in business here is that there is little or no way of getting the word out to people who don't know what you sell. We need a fair way of advertising. With all costing the same and sorting by date will help more then having the ones at the top being the same ones that everyone knows.
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"'Aarrr,' roared the Pirate Captain, because it seemed a good way to end the conversation."
The Pirates! In An Adventure With Scientists. Reel Expression Poses and Animations: reelgeek.co.uk/blog |
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Moss Talamasca
Serpent & Thistle
Join date: 20 Aug 2005
Posts: 367
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11-29-2005 18:13
Surely the team resposibe for clasifieds organization has nothing to do with such social issues as The 'Impeach Bush' guy.
He's a jerk, but he's skirtig the rules of the game. Features like this and P2P mean not having to fly through a forrest of bad advertising and gaudy clubs. I think it sounds great, though i think the 'Popular Places' find feature is advertising enough for places like IceDragon's and Luskwood. |
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Torley Linden
Enlightenment!
Join date: 15 Sep 2004
Posts: 16,530
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11-29-2005 18:13
KK, DISCUSS ~! ;p ^ LOLEX, that's great. TO CLARIFY however: this means we AREN'T going to be able to sort by Date, at all? If so, how am I gonna tell what Classifieds are new without poking through each one for DATE POSTED? That's what's troubling me right now, I have to dig through so many and being a time-traveller, it's disturbing that I can't even arrange ads chronologically! What about all the New Products, or special events and things that need a date? (In more ways than one, mayhaps.) Alphabetical titles can be manipulated by Resis. Now, paying more to appear on top, you still appear in the Classifieds... some peeps like me read from the bottom up on occasion too. But time—time is hard to mess with. So, even if this system is used, I'd still personally prefer alternative ways of sorting, please.  (AS an aside, even with Google AdWords, campaigns are targeted based on context and you can weight words differently.) _____________________
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Zapoteth Zaius
Is back
Join date: 14 Feb 2004
Posts: 5,634
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11-29-2005 18:14
I have a question.. Is your shift key broken?
Anyway, seriously I don't like it.. I don't like what we have at the moment (poor old Zapoteth Designs), but I don't think this would be better.. You'd get pages and pages of land for sale, clubs, and already established shops, which aren't exactly in NEED of customers.. Once I get past the "*****AAAA" posts I've found a lot of very nice shops, with quality products, waiting to get off their feet.. I preffer Flips other suggestion... _____________________
I have the right to remain silent. Anything I say will be misquoted and used against me.
--------------- Zapoteth Designs, Temotu (100,50) ---------------  |
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Enabran Templar
Capitalist Pig
Join date: 26 Aug 2004
Posts: 4,506
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11-29-2005 18:18
Fantastic work. I am much looking forward to seeing this implemented. If I can have auto-renewal once I set all my little variables, I'll be a happy camper.
Lordfly, this isn't very much like AdWords in that you can buy your way to the top. AdWords ranks advertisers based on max bid + clickthrough rate to (hopefully) display the most relevant results at the top. This is more like Overture, which lets you have whatever position you're crazy enough to pay for. In any case, I think that for user experience, this will vastly improve the value of the classifieds. Some way of evaluating relevance would definitely be neat, but that becomes a stocking-stuffer feature in light of the power of bid-based ranking. |
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Csven Concord
*
Join date: 19 Mar 2005
Posts: 1,015
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11-29-2005 18:19
Nothing done to sorting is going to make me want to use the Classifieds until the categories make more sense to me.
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Desmond Shang
Guvnah of Caledon
Join date: 14 Mar 2005
Posts: 5,250
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11-29-2005 18:20
I shouldn't complain, as I have already well-established my business.
This ad thing is only going to help me, in every possible way, just like the Classifieds did. Now there would just be this small matter of getting the stains off my hands, but one can't have everything I suppose? One very conflicted antiques dealer, _____________________
 Steampunk Victorian, Well-Mannered Caledon! |
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SuezanneC Baskerville
Forums Rock!
Join date: 22 Dec 2003
Posts: 14,229
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11-29-2005 18:21
I don't like it.
If LR is not making money off it, as is said to be the case with texture uploads, for example, what is the rational for charging more for ads that cost the same to produce? Default sort order by date and time of posting the ad, sortable alphabeically. This function is competing against web page search and shop systems that are more powerful. It needs to focus on attracting users by allowing them to search efficiently. _____________________
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So long to these forums, the vBulletin forums that used to be at forums.secondlife.com. I will miss them. I can be found on the web by searching for "SuezanneC Baskerville", or go to http://www.google.com/profiles/suezanne - http://lindenlab.tribe.net/ created on 11/19/03. Members: Ben, Catherine, Colin, Cory, Dan, Doug, Jim, Philip, Phoenix, Richard, Robin, and Ryan - |
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vivi Odets
Flibbertigibbet
Join date: 4 Sep 2005
Posts: 698
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Why can't it just be simple?
11-29-2005 18:21
Classified ads have run in newspapers for ages under a very simple process:
1) ads are divided up by category (if you are looking for an apartment to rent, you're not going to waste your time reading the used car ads) 2) you pay by the word or line, for a certain length of time 3) your ads show up on the page where they show up on the page. In the case of the apartment, it is probably listed by price. In the case of the used car, it is probably listed by make Why can't this very simple and logical method be used in SL? Give everybody the chance to advertise in an affordable manner, give them the same footing as all other ad buyers. This will make people much more willing to advertise their non-event information outside of the event page (hmmmm, events are free, classifieds are $250L... simple math that). Until you somehow offer a way to sell "display ads" we should all be treated fairly. In the classifieds, there is no inside front cover, no back cover, no 4 color whoop-de-do. We're all just trying to share our goods and services and sales and what not in an affordable, fair manner. |
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Gabe Lippmann
"Phone's ringing, Dude."
Join date: 14 Jun 2004
Posts: 4,219
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11-29-2005 18:23
I preffer Flips other suggestion... _____________________
go to Nocturnal Threads
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Torley Linden
Enlightenment!
Join date: 15 Sep 2004
Posts: 16,530
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11-29-2005 18:26
Classified ads have run in newspapers for ages under a very simple process: 1) ads are divided up by category (if you are looking for an apartment to rent, you're not going to waste your time reading the used car ads) 2) you pay by the word or line, for a certain length of time 3) your ads show up on the page where they show up on the page. In the case of the apartment, it is probably listed by price. In the case of the used car, it is probably listed by make Why can't this very simple and logical method be used in SL? Give everybody the chance to advertise in an affordable manner, give them the same footing as all other ad buyers. This will make people much more willing to advertise their non-event information outside of the event page (hmmmm, events are free, classifieds are $250L... simple math that). Until you somehow offer a way to sell "display ads" we should all be treated fairly. In the classifieds, there is no inside front cover, no back cover, no 4 color whoop-de-do. We're all just trying to share our goods and services and sales and what not in an affordable, fair manner. Downside: The business models within an online world are different... for example, if you saw a cat for adoption in the paper, part of expenses would include cost to drive out. That doesn't apply here, besides wasted time (which will be less time once P@P ROX! comes into play, soonish). Upside: I don't read newspapers, altho I do like some of the traditions involved. I do like the fact each newspaper is dated. Without dates, humans go psychologically insane. (Called "temporal dementia", amongst other names.) _____________________
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Lo Jacobs
Awesome Possum
Join date: 28 May 2004
Posts: 2,734
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11-29-2005 18:26
I am very much against this suggestion.
Organizing them according to the time and date added makes sense, why make it more complicated? _____________________
http://churchofluxe.com/Luster
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Enabran Templar
Capitalist Pig
Join date: 26 Aug 2004
Posts: 4,506
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11-29-2005 18:29
Classified ads have run in newspapers for ages under a very simple process: A process which includes enormous (by comparison) ads for places like car dealerships who are willing to spend more to get more prominent placement. I'm not sure why everyone who brings up the newspaper example leaves that part out. Anyway, I'm amused to note that when classifieds were first announced, there was enormous uproar about the cost. Now the minimum cost has been slashed to L$75 a week, and everyone is furious that someone else might decide to pay a little more and rank higher. |
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Torley Linden
Enlightenment!
Join date: 15 Sep 2004
Posts: 16,530
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11-29-2005 18:30
Anyway, I'm amused to note that when classifieds were first announced, there was enormous uproar about the cost. Now the minimum cost has been slashed to L$75 a week, and everyone is furious that someone else might decide to pay a little more and rank higher. Like the old proverb, "Even if you drink the water, you still have the glass." _____________________
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