"Your only limit is your imagination."

And is a hundred times better than anything I can do.

And there's your attitude problem.

If you don't find joy in the thrill of learning and creating and getting better at something - no matter if it sucks or not or if people want to buy it - then SL isn't for you.

I have never claimed that these things "= success". I have claimed that we are heading for a point where the lack of these things = no success.



Who said I was talking about "the most successful folks in SL?" I'm talking about a newbie who builds a couple things, gets given tier-free land to develop, builds something, has it fail, but gets to retain the land and to 'have done what they wanted' even though others are struggling with the market. Whether they were successful or not pretty much depends on your definition of successful. They didn't make money, but they got to do what they wanted in SL, and that's what I'm lacking. Not everyone wants to use SL as a cash cow, and I'm not talking about the top end successes.

Also, I notice you missed the point where I pointed out I had been working for most of every login almost since I arrived.

How is this anything to do with what Enabran posted?

I do find joy in the "thrill of learning and creating and getting better". However, I could do all that in Blender, or Torque, or PSP with a better user interface and no lag. The reason to use SL instead of these things is the social aspect, since that's what SL provides that none of these others do. As such, unless there is some social point in making something there's little point in doing it in SL as opposed to anything else.

If there's a reason not to do something, Yumi will find it!

I give up. You don't want it to happen. That's cool. But enough talking about it, huh?

Of course I want it to happen. Why would I be making all the effort to post here if not? Cocoanut's posts were both excellent.

Then can you explain what the "its 100 times better than anything I can do" statement meant? I'm not sure where you're going with that besides the initial impression of "woe is me".

There are many reasons to create in SL - ease of the interface, cheap (free accounts!), etc. etc. I can 3-D model in SL without having to buy Maya. Yes, interaction and feedback from other people is one reason to work in SL. But if you're only creating because you want praise and/or money, then its a rather ignoble goal.

Only that if Enabran was (as he appeared to be) trying to show that practice is necessary to get better, then that example did not show it. Now, I'd hoped he might have posted about the practice he did before that, as I bet his robot wasn't the first thing he ever built in SL.

On "the most successful folks in SL?" - you set the bar with the astronaut thing.

How many newbies that built a couple of things really get free land that they get to retain even if they fail? If they fail, why does it even matter? That parcel they have doesn't do them any good if they are incapable or not sufficiently motivated to succeed. A parcel of land doesn't mean squat, many of the business people in SL don't even own land, they rent vendor space and either make their products in the sandboxes, a friend's parcel, or in the case of clothes, anywhere they wish.

I have never heard of even one case such as you describe, although I am sure it happens from time to time. *shrug* It's certainly not some widespread epidemic, holding other newbies down.

And what of it if a newbie gets noticed and another player gives them a chance? Are you saying that it should not be allowed?

So far you have given examples that just simply do not guarantee success or lack thereof.

Those programs can be and are used in conjunction with SL.

The first thing anybody in SL ever built is a plywood cube. It all comes from that first step.

And I completely see Enabran's frustration with this thread. You started out nitpicking the ultimate truth of SL's marketing slogan to laying out all sorts of reasons why someone can't win the SL game to I don't even know what point you're trying to argue now.

You seem to be a terribly negative person on the SL tip. I really don't think that if you're that unhappy with the platform that any one of us are going to be able to change your mind. Maybe what you're looking for is somewhere out there, or it hasn't been made yet, but I dunno if SL is it.

Ah, ok. My understanding was that "astronaut" was meant to represent something that the individual person wanted, not something that was amazingly successful from society's view as a whole. I don't think many people nowadays do consider astronauts to be super-successful - not compared to Ray Kroc or Bill Gates - and it was a pretty horrible job at the time, but lots of young children want (or wanted) to be one.



You don't get it. They have a bit of SL that's theirs, where they can put whatever they like and want to have. They can "play a role" that they want to, even if it isn't marketable. They can do things in SL on their terms, not anyone else's, and not depending on what others choose to provide. And unlike others, they don't have to choose between making it marketable or forking out US$ on tier.



No, I'm saying that the chances should be handed out in a more open and accessible fashion. I actually designed an architecture for it, but the feasibility study I posted here got no responses, so I figured it wouldn't do well.

Right, exactly. So, how?



I don't mean anything about "win" in terms of making lots of money. I mean it in terms of actually getting to do what you imagine. And I contend that not everyone can do that.

Meaning - when every person in SL started out, they sucked. The degree to which they sucked varied according to how much RL previous skill they brought with them - I've seen day-old newbies build some impressive things right out of the box - but its really 98% practice. Just like most things in life.




Not everyone can do that with only 2 months in SL under their belt, that's true. To expect otherwise is a pipe dream. There is no software platform that will make you into Michaelangelo overnight.

Christ alive, I was using product-based examples. Do you know how many thousands of prims I'd made and trashed at that point? That was something I built in my sixth month here. You don't get to jump off the boat and become governor of California overnight. You have to work for that stuff. (Unless you're a savant. I am not.)

(nodnod)

I acknowledge that. The question was, how did you do the work (or more particularly, what work did you do?)

What was the very first thing you decided to try and build something resembling?

(nod)

However, that doesn't mean there can't be one that doesn't even require you to be Michaelangelo as a prerequisite for getting to do what you imagine.

An adobe house, because I missed New Mexico.

It looked like shit and I threw it away and started on something else.

(nod)

Ok, getting to the tricky part. How did you decide what the first prim should be in your house?

Impossible given the current interface and power of most computer systems and software.

Until a computer can read your mind and translate it into pixels for you, you will always have to have some sort of skill or practice with the given interface.

I think you'll be happier in 20 years.

I don't remember. This was 14 months ago. But I doubt I had any particular rhyme or reason for my choices. I'd never worked in the environment before.

Well, this is something I wonder about. SL's backend database has a huge library of textures, and prim parameters for objects. It also has all the data about which objects have recieved building ratings or which have made the most money on sale. In other words, the ideal initial knowledge base for an artist AI. It'd be intruiging if someone did a deal with LL to use it that way.

(nodnod) Well, I'm sure you didn't just pick randomly, though.

What's your point with all of that?

You'd end up with 5 variations on prim dicks and sex balls, hon. What sells isn't necessarily what other people want to create. Hence - your imagination, not someone elses.