Clubs = the all-powerful, can't-do-shit-about server thieves.

if you want em to suffer, leave the sim exepted a tiny plot and run a script farm on it, delocalise all your non critical server scripts there ^^

Ping me in world Aaron - I have an idea!

My friend in Nangrim has a plot about 1024m. A club owned the land all around and from what i heard, it was a decent run club. They went under and sold the land to an apartment developer. Unfortunately, the new owner bought all the land around my friend and put up NO ENTRY ban lines. She contacted Live Support and told her she could still TP to her store. LOL.

*shakes head*

Xplorer

Yeah, I went there a few weeks ago and there is a huge difference.
Back when Club Elite was there, somedays you could barely move and other days you couldn't even enter the sim because there were too many people. The Club Elite building itself was an eyesore. Then there were the BigJohn yelling matches.

Ahhh, those were the days

Clubs are actually taking a beating now. I had to close mine and several of the big, popular ones are in seriousl trouble. No dwell....kinda kills. Running the club becomes something you have to do every moment you're awake, having a RL is impossible, because you've gotta come up with enough to at least break even on tier.

Though I will admit one time a neighbor annoyed me, and when I tried to get him to sell me his land so I wouldnt have to deal with him, he refused. So i picked up my house and rezzed a club. He and other neighbors cleared out and I bought up the land.

BIGJOHN SMASH!

Looks for cheese to go with your whine.....

Kinda like how you felt you were so important that your use of your land was more important than their use of their land?

If it were just an obnoxious private neighbor, and not a club, would you feel a need to whine about it in the forums, or did you just post this thread because clubs are easy to attack?

While I am not a club owner, and don't like the big obnoxious clubs with tons of lights and scripts any more than most people, I also don't like people getting high and mighty about lag and property rights. LL gives us all the right to do what we want on our land; unless you live in a managed sim, if the neighbor is sticking to their land there's nothing to be done about it. This issue has been beaten to death and beaten to death, and it seems as though nothing is going to change about it any time soon.

We've all moved because of lag. It happens. The SL Shangri-La is not easy to find, but you're better off to just keep looking for it than to come and complain in the forums about lag.

Perhaps for reasons other than money. Some people like running a club; it gives them something to do in-world, and a place where all their friends will come to visit them. They're willing to spend some money to make their club vision happen, just as others are willing to spend money to bulid other things. (Is spending RL money to run a club any stranger than spending it to run a museum?) I've known a number of club owners like that, and they enjoyed their clubs for a while, but most shut down when it got to be either too much work or too much money to spend.

There may be some cases where somebody who makes a lot of money in SL sees running a club as a way of giving something back to the community. Bad Girls is a likely candidate, though this is just speculation.

If you can keep your prim count low, you can keep the cost of running a club down by co-locating it with other land uses. Clubs in skyboxes over other areas (especailly malls) are common now. If your mall income is already covering the tier, the club just has to produce enough income to cover its staff expenses. On the other hand, malls aren't an easy way to make money in SL either; there seems to be a glut of them in the world these days.

For most, it's clearly not for the money. Even back in the days of dwell and DI, running a club was a tough way to make money in SL; with those revenue sources gone, it's nearly impossible. The club itself isn't likely to produce enough revenue to even cover the salaries of the staff; you get some tips coming in, but it's small. You can use the crowds that the club draws to sell vendor space, but it's still a challenge to make enough to cover tier. You can probably count the number of clubs that are actually making this model work, or even close to working, on your fingers, and even some of those have other associated businesses as well -- for example, The Edge and Voodoo Lounge, two of the more successful clubs in SL, are renting land now.

The only other model that seems likely to be financially successful is running a club that makes most of its money from escort services. The Barbie Club is the example I'm most familiar with, but I'm sure there are many others.

Why not buy them out?

Smart money.

Mmmm. Lovely. "You're not going to fix it, so don't complain about it". The attitude of the forever-defeated.

In every otherwise reasonable complaint that's utterly justifiable in every which-way, there will always be the one asshat who comes along and says "YOU GUYS ARE ALL WHINING, _____ IS COMPLETELY RIGHT DUURRR." caps added for emphasis. So confident in this fact am I that I believe it should be given its proper place next to the likes of Godwin's Law and so forth.

Congratulations, Mr Leandros. You are today's asshat.

Operating a club IS theft. They're of absolutely no redeemable value to Second Life at all and exist only as selfish money-pits for those without the creativity to create their own things. There's no originality to them because they all use the same dumb scripted slot machines and lottery devices that every other club and gambling hall uses. It's insulting to look at and even more insulting that anyone who "doesn't" (yeah, right) own a club would dare apologize for them. In my barely-humble opinion I think script limits should be enforced hand-in-hand with prim ones, and anyone wanting to operate a club or casino should be strongly "suggested" to consider a private island.

This isn't entirely fair. Yes, a LOT of clubs are resource-sucking cess-pits whose only point is to try and make money for the owner, but certainly not ALL. The only club I frequent on any regular basis does have a scripted dancefloor, but lacks all of the other 'scripted draws' that plague most of the places I avoid. No slot machines, no lottery/raffle balls, nothing. The owner rents out a little bit of vendor space in the club, but I know for a fact this doesn't come even close to offsetting the RL money she's shelling out to give her patrons a place to come, hang out and enjoy one another's company.

I said this before in another thread, but it really bears repeating: A representative sampling is just that, a sampling. Just because one, or 10, or even 100 clubs are suckfests, it doesn't follow that ALL clubs are suckfests. Just because many (not most, but a significant number) forum users are loudmouthed, bigoted, opinionated jerks (and I'm talking about ALL forums, not just these ones), it doesn't automatically follow that we all are. (And if you take offense to the above description of forum users, you may wish to take a long look at yourself and think about why it offends you.

Most clubs end up making no money, sucking up all the time and RL money of the club owner. Eventually they go "What the hell am I paying for all this BS for?" and close up the club.. This happened reciently when a club nearby died. The neighbors all took up a collective sigh of relief. And we werent even in the sim itself, just a neighboring sim. As LL won't do anything, best I can say is hold on and don't panic.

If you have enough people in your life, you could hold your own lag party just at the same time they are having theirs. Naa, thats just evil....

Maybe limit server mips to actual land size? larger plots get more prim...maybe more mips. That way if they own the whole sim, they get to do a lot more. If they have just set up the latest camping-sation chairs and casino in the sim taking up very little space but packing in lots of people... they find that first the customer's processor time gets taken away... then their own and casino games etc go down.

I see the script scheduler has been doing its job.

Perhaps it's time to QoS the sims.

Set up script scheduling per-parcel: Each parcel would have a script cap that is proportional to its size on the sim.

So a 4x4 plot (the smallest possible size) would have a cap of 1/16384 of the sim's resources. A 512m lot could occupy at most 1/128 of the sim's cpu.

As to full sims... I think that parcel owners should get priority. If the sim is full, and an owner can't get to his lot, than someone who doesn't own a lot in the sim should get kicked out.

having the right to do whatever you want on your land should cut both ways: you should have the right to do what you want, but the current system makes it too easy to force others out of the sim by the mafia-like tactics of simply making the rest of the sim unlivable.

Dr Tardis, I can see alot of mileage in your sugestion there. Hard-linking the amount of CPU cycles to the land would end alot of the abusive trends in SL.

BTW, has anyone put this in the feature voting section? If not, I'll start off a proposal.

i will *Yawn* now lol ... i got better things to do ... i dont do the club thing ...

Fight fire with fire. Meaning, use your lands worth of scripts when they are lagging you. Lag back. I only say use this option if they arnt being reasonable.

This topic and thread can only make me smile. I moved my club from the mainland to an island sim because of the lag-and any club that is the umm "suckfest" as you guys above put it won't last. Like some of these others said just wait them out, they'll die soon and you'll be able to get some cheap land to expand on or resale when they do.

I do take a bit of offense in the context of clubs being greedy, honestly unless you are on a private sim with the script tools available you just can't see what is causing lag in a sim. Some things are horrendously laggy and you don't have to own a club to lag the rest of the sim out. Tossing up a bunch of 1024 textures, sitting on some poseballs (some of them I've found to use over 3 ms of time!!), and some other scripted devices (some of the sex toy thingys).

Finally, in dealings with neighbors, it is better to take a moderate road than being confrontational up front-not saying that the OP was of course, but communication can cure alot of ills.

And somehow captain high and mighty here is "The better man". Look bud we pay our tier same as you, and "Oops" people like coming to our place and hanging out. Slot machines? Nope don't have them. Vendors? Nope. Sensors? We have a security orb which is currently turned off/disabled and a single visitor counter that scans once every 30 seconds, and its turned off half the time. Sim FPS stays high except during "Peak" hours i.e. we have 20+ people.

No redeamable value? Do YOU have any redeamable value? Probably not, so how dare YOU log in and waste ANY sims valuable processing time. Meanwhile our club is being used as a meeting place, discussion forum, oh and yesterday someone was using a small corner booth as a small private sandbox to script a checkerboard table, he wanted to listen to music while working. Do I care? Not really just glad we could give him a place he could plop. I'm sick of people fucking thinking that thier ability to put "I'm with stupid" on a t-shirt and thus making themselves a "Content Creator" all the sudden entitles them to tell the rest of us how/what/when we should play, and that by god if we're not doing the same shit with T-shirts we're obviously less important than them. No offense jack, but you could disappear tommorow and the world wouldn't change. Odds are a smattering of your friends would notice and thats it. YOU are not important. Welcome to real life.

The club has been in the sim longer than MOST of the residential development, when we got there most of the plots had "For Sale" signs on them. Previously there were shops there from my understanding. So yeah, we run the club as low lag as we can, and we have been there for quite a while, I do think this entitles us to leave it up, don't you?

The only thing I agree with you on is script limitations which wouldn't bother me a bit. I'm not running that many scripts that its a concern.

Considering you wouldn't have the slightest idea of what content I actually create, you look really foolish making assumptions. Incidentally I've never designed t-shirts to begin with, so if I were to put "I'm With Stupid" I'd do it on a hat and email it for your approval.

Clubs are ugly boxes that only sprung up for the developer incentives and dwell because people gave up trying to make nice things and took the easy road towards money-land. They're one of the strongest reasons for SL looking like shit today. I've been in SL substantially longer than you have, I'm not talking out of my ass. I've contributed a lot more to the community than your "meeting place" has.

Yes most clubs are full of scripts.. But most of the problem I've had with lag on SIMs has nothing to do with clubs. It's a freakishly large amount of pose balls with show/hide scripts and pool doodlies that move around and junk.

Most of the club lag comes from people. People = lag.

What ya need to be complaining about is the number of scripts they let people wear. I've seen people with upwards of 600 scripts on. They are they ones stealing your SIM fps.

No, please!

Think about that: under those rules, if you buy a 512, then your scripts on that 512 will run as if every other parcel on their land was running scripts up to their maximum capacity, even if they're not!

Effectively, it would mean that everyone was next to a club, all the time. Not fun.

Ut oh here comes the pissing contest of I was here longer than you! Hey Josh think maybe that is his alt that runs the club?? I know of three people that have been here longer than me but they created a new alt and started over because of the drama and BS of all the updates breaking their products!

So lets not start the pissing contest of who has a earlier birthday!