Petition for alteration of age restrictions

I second raising it to 25

"The first time one of those types of parents actually pays attention and realizes little Johnny is being talked dirty to by a half-naked barbie named Steve, heads are going to roll."

hahaha! I agree, I wouldn't want us all to lose SL either.

coco

This is something I agree with also. The comments of the girl genius pretty much speak for me as well with the exception of her repeated use of adult words like "onanistic."

Age is a poor determinant, but it's the only one we have and if we are going to use it to exclude "immature" behaviour, 25 would certainly be a more effective cut-off than 18. That's just practical.

Your posts show a level of maturity and intelligence that is quite above some of the theoretically "mature" folks on the main grid, but you are kind of proving the other posters point here by the way in which you are reacting to this comment. It's not an "insult on your intelligence," it's not even an insult.

A part of maturity is experience in the sense of being tested by life and the situations that come up. Sure you are mature, but how do you react when someone criticises you, or when some greifer shows up? This is the real test of maturity and indications from your reaction here are that you might fail some of these "tests" even at the ripe old age of 22.

Additionaly, parents "rights" do not trump cirminal law. You acknowledge yourself that the quest you are on is likely hopeless, but I don't think you really appreciate that the law cannot be changed, and will not be changed. What your parents think about stuff like this is really just irrelevant. They simply dont have the right to decide, and wishing wont make it so.

This is indeed a different and strange definition of "mature" to me. How do you objectively determine what the proper behaviour for a given age is? How does one know when one is "acting that age"?

/me coughs politely

You gonna start with that again?

I have to disagree with this to a degree, Coco. In essence, I think you are right. I just think that for many a teen boy, griefing would not be seen as something that is that bad. And it is just the kind of thing they enjoy. I remember those days (barely, but I do) and teen boys waiver between mature and responsible and down right asinine on a daily basis.

Now, probably, the avg teen SL member would not really fit that mold, but you would be opening up to that possibility. I think the current split off of the Teen grid is a great work around. The issue for me would be at what age do you cut it off? Obviously, you (me anyway) don't want 13-year olds roaming around the SL that I hang in. And anyway, how do you stop the youngsters from cruising around in Dad's Damani Roadster?

I have lost several good friends to the teen grid (I suspect I will lose some more before the week is out). So I understand how difficult it is. A lot of these kids are generally mature, productive members of the grid. And I never really found the occasional bouts of sillyness (e.g. "let me try this gun and shoot you 6 sims away" ) particularly annoying.

From what I've seen of my friends who moved to tg, they police themselves, too. When they were on the main grid, the hung out mostly in PG sims; and avoiding really risque areas. So yes, many tg'ers are probably more deserving to be in the main grid than many so-called adults here. And yes, it sucks that you arent allowed to talk to your friends anymore.

However, it is true that LL has to abide by US laws, and that's that.

In many ways, I'm glad those who switched to tg did. They dont have to pretend they're older than they are anymore. They can wander their grid freely without having to worry (too much) what their parents will see on their screen.

In a couple of years, if you're both playing SL still, you'd see each other again, and be reacquainted. Meantime, there are plenty of friendly and fun people in the main grid. I'm sure you'll find them.

Yes, raise the age limit to 25, because obviously people who can vote for the future of their respective country and get all the drag of responsibilities that come with being a legal adult (income taxes, healthcare changes that affect you directly as opposed to before, all sorts of other government BS) shouldn't be allowed the same perks as the other, older, wiser adults should, even though they have the same responsibilities.



You know what, you pay my taxes, then I'll leave the main grid. Fair trade, I think.

God I would hope my kids did nothing more than sneak onto the Sl main grid. I mena sure there are dangers, but If my child is home playing SL then she is not out doing the things I did when I was in high school.

Very true, Jake. Let me say that part of this issue for me is centered on the fact that I would be uncomfortable in certain very adult situations if I wasn't sure there was an effort to keep minors from engaging in them. They will be exposed to all sorts of things in this world in due time, I don't want to be the one exposing them (or myself to them ). Their parents should be the gatekeepers for this and that isn't possible if they are allowed free reign on the main grid.

With that in mind, Emma's remarks highlight just why the "age of consent" in the US is a number that could be agreed upon as a determinant.

And lest we forget NAMBLA members? Free memberships for all, and no discrimination. Woot!

Where's the local NAMBLA SL Chapter House?

Sorry Enbran.
She brought it up, not me.

I would say you should stop worrying about it because it will never happen anyway, but then if it is never going to happen maybe I should shut up about it too.

It's just such a deliciously subversive suggestion, I can't help myself.

Well, I would have to agree with your disagreement to a degree. I am the mother of only teenage girls, and I have never been a teenage boy myself. Then, too, I've been told by a younger friend that some of the teenagers I knew on TSO acted a LOT different when they weren't around me. (Language, naughtyness, etc.) So that was a bit of an eye-opener.

coco

Hehe

By median behavior more or less, I suppose. I'll try to explain myself further.

"Maturity" is not something one ever attains, or automatically attains at a certain age. Everyone is immature and acts immature on occasion. Old, young, doesn't matter.

Take for example, I have two girls. One of them has always been somehow more mature than the other at that age, in visible ways at least. No matter what their ages, the one is always more mature in more ways than the other (and less in some). In any group of children, you have some that are less mature acting in visible ways than others, and some who seem mature beyond their age, with most people falling in the middle somewhere, at the median behavior.

But at all ages, most people (even babies) come with a certain built-in humanity, I guess you might call it. Babies come to us as full-fledged individual people, complete in their humanity, lacking only language and experience (and biological development). Babies pretty much have the spectrum of human traits, including even modesty (as a reaction to praise, not physical modesty), and the need to save face.

I think I read recently something about the brain not being fully mature till somewhere in the early twenties. So we could say we are sending people to war who haven't finished forming their brains, or allowing them to get married, etc. Or allowing them to spout off on these message boards, lol.

But since they are fully formed ENOUGH (and biologically capable of reproducing and intellectually capable of managing their affairs), we have set these various age minimums for various activities. For playing in this game, that is set at 18, which is reasonable by law.

I have met some people in games who are WAY below the minimum age for that game, whose parents are at home. I figure the parent - from all I can tell from what the kids tell me - are on it, and supervising, and all that. But I still think it is a mistake, for reasons such as what Enabran stated, like robbing them of their time for innocence. It also gives them a totally warped idea of what "adult" means. I kind of hate the way that word has been subverted to mean "sexual," and the more kinky, the more "adult." That just doesn't make sense to me.

And with those kids, way too young to be in a game, I kind of resent it, too, because I figure the parents are counting on people like me to KEEP them safe. And since I don't like to be put in the role of their mother, nor do I like to snitch, I pretty much leave them to their own defenses, but I know they view me as a safe haven, and that is more responsibility for me than is fair to expect of me. So that's another reason why parents shouldn't dump their kids in things way too old for them.*

I guess to sum up, what I mean is, people are pretty much people, regardless of their age. And can be mature (for their age) at any age, and most are. A 12-year-old can be a fine, upstanding person, albeit in the budding stage of life, rather than full-flowered, and most are. A teenager can be the best friend you can imagine and the best friend he can be, albeit the large age difference.

I guess you could say I consider my friends of all ages to be equally my friend, regardless of their age. They will be equal in a different way, of course, and I will treat them differently. But always as equals, in terms of respect. Younger people are, for their age, fully mature - for their age - and terrific people, lacking only in experience (and physiological development).

I get all bumbled up trying to explain this. But I do remember that when I was in my twenties, I really didn't like teenagers at all. It took getting older to start appreciating them again. And right now, there are several in their twenties I would like to take a sledge-hammer to. I figure as I get older, that, too, will pass. Maybe some day I'll find myself impatient with 40-year-olds, I don't know.

coco

*P.S. It occurs to me now, that SOME of these kids may not have had parents at home knowing that they were on that game, even though they claimed that. Kids can be awfully clever, including getting ahold of and using credit cards without their parents knowing.

I remember being sort of angry when I discovered, upon turning 18, that I could not rent a hotel room or a car. In fact, most hotel and car rental businesses do not rent to young adults until they are in their early to mid 20s. I suppose this is to keep "wild college kids" out. Let's face it, beer bongs and keg stands can lead to some pretty crazy behavior among young adults, so I can see the reasoning, however unfair it felt when I was that age.

So I think that LL is being pretty fair drawing the line at 18.

One thing that popped into my head as I thought about this at work this morning, are the age of sexual consent laws, which are 16 in most US states, and the UK as well (not sure about Canada, and someone correct me if I am wrong about the UK please), so there could be an argument made in that direction as well.

Regardless, I am happy with it at 18.

It's true with rental cars, but I had no trouble with the hotel portion. In fact, during my senior year in high school...

Well, anyway, the Motel 6 seemed to care only that I had money to pay, not that I was 18. Which is good, because a king bed beats the back seat of a car any day of the week (especially Saturday).

But you do raise an interesting point about maturity and CYA measures taken outside of government-established limits.

I am fan of the 18 year old limit, but I don't for a single instant beleive it protects kids. It protecs me, and I am happy with that.

High school kids deal with a huge range of adult problems, and are most often hampered by the fact that the fear telling thier parents what they are dealing with because they will get in trouble. I know that I went to huge effort to Isolate my parents from the shit I was really doing (I still do, and I'm 3.

I think the notion that high school kids are somehow innocent to day needs to be done away with. It is a fiction that denies kids the tools they need to deal with the reality of thier world. And they go and find the tools elsewhere.

Shit the days of innocence in high school were when you only had to worry about how to get booze and buy condoms. We are way past that now.

Ah, perhaps it was because we used to try to get into places a little bit more spendy than Motel 6 - there really wasn't any Motel 6 and the like in the area I grew up in. We had the Marriot, Radisson, etc., to choose from. The few times we tried, they had two requirements - a minimum age and a major credit card. We waved cash at them - to no avail. Not to mention, when I was a young adult, it was a bit more unusual to have major credit cards. *sound of bones creaking*

Leave the age restrictions as they are on the main grid.

Thx

Mar

Frankly it's in the best interest of both adults and teens, and on a personal level if everyone is HONEST im sure my home will once again be lag and bomb/bullet/lost junk free

The login announcement yesterday indicated that it's teen amnesty week. LL seems to be encouraging kids to come forward and be transferred.

Yes, I saw that, and considered it as well, but that doesn't mean he had to come forward. At any rate, was just curious about the circumstances.

Have you ever heard of the term ... CONTRIBITING TO THE DELQANCY OF A MINOR???
There are rules here for a reason .... !!!
Wheather is drug /sex/ciggs....ect ..... !!!!

I like the rules lindens have right now .. and should always be like this .... they are there for our protection ..... and dont want not changes to the age requiremnts .....
*Two* Thumbs down on this
"BTW" i have a 15 year old ... and she will never thouch sl ... aor now about it till she is 18 ....
Zeph