Griefer Autobanning Rings.

For crying out loud, take your age play rants and arguements to another thread.




Tell me, is peer pressure an excuse when a kid attempts to shop lift or gets caught defacing a building? No, it isn't. They're still responsable for their own actions and their past will stick to them like glue tarnishing their repuatation. At least in SL, they have the option to start completely over with a new alt.

Slow down, Lina. Before you tell me what to re-read, perhaps you should read a little further yourself. You got here a little late, so you didn't get to see the rather lengthy, now deleted chat log that was in post number 3 of this thread. However, still remaining are the notification that the post was edited 4 hours after it was written, the comments from several people (not just me) about how posting the log was inappropriate, and the OP's acknowledgement in post number 14 of having "deleted [the chat log] out of good faith" after having been told it was against the rules.

As for most of the rest of what you've said in this thread, I'm not sure why you seem so hellbent on defending griefers (or maybe just this particular griefer), but you'd do well to at least make sure your amunition is live before you fire it. You're throwing quite a few duds here.

And for the record, not everyone has it in them to grief. Maybe you do, and clearly the OP does, but I don't, and neither do any of those I'm fortunate enough to call my friends. You see, we have this little thing called empathy, which allows us to imagine how others feel when they're wronged, so the thought of deliberately harming someone else causes us great discomfort. It's one of those things that allows civilazations to form, but tends to be lacking among predators, sociopaths, small children, and some teenagers. Most human adults do possess it though. I'm sorry to hear you imply that you don't, and that you expect no one else does either.

has anyone ever thought of just leaveing eachother alone? I mean without the internet there would be no ageplay and you would never have known! you cant cange the way people think by hateing and banning them and mabe if people cant ageplay on things like sl they will go and have sex with actual children! you could be makeing it worse! you dont have to like it or put up with it but dont seak people our and attack them for their sick virtual sexual activities unless they are doing it to actual children! if there is no victim or victims there is no real crime!

Im the owner of A group called YTMND, a group of fans of a website, we are not dedicated to the site or even repreasent it.

I would like to learn the Name of the fabricator of this "ban system" becuase now that a few of my members that decided to go out and greif somewhere without my knowledge has gotten me and many of the poeple in my group banned from I don't know how many sims.

I do not support greifing or even raiding, or anything else that is intended to annoy the fine paying residents of this game.

But, banning me and assuming that im responsible for their actions in this game is ludicracy, I spend almost 135$ a month USD for land and am responsible for running 2-3 estates, I decide to go visit with some friends at a club to tp there and be auto-banned becuase im on some list that I have no awareness or proper reasoning to even be on ?

I want to learn the names of this Ban system so that I may speak with them or file out a lawsuit over neglagent attention to their ban lists.

Note: Chatlogs can be fabricated as easily as ripping textures, if the new standard is to go off of a simple text file, then they better be prepared reap what they have sown.

Thats true its not an excuse and it is still a choice for them i agree with you there. He is responsible for his own actions. But peer pressure does lead to alot of stupid actions just to fit in and it happens its not an excuse but it is a cause of things that can happen and do happen. However he still chose to do it to fit in I was just bring up that peer pressure does lead to stupid actions alot.

But isn't having the griefer make a new alt part of the problem?

"The devil you know" vs the "unknown stranger"

I had a very rocky start in SL as I joined a group, merged my land with the group, added tier, and then was acused of stealing the groups items due to a misunderstanding. I had to temporalry deed the items to myself in order to move them to the new building. I had permision to move them, it was just a matter of not having the time to deed them all back before leaving for x-mass. Those that know me know that I am an honest person, but that first start was bad.

Right now he is a known and there are some places he can go. If he get's an alt some people will simply ban his alt once they find out it's him.

Edit: group story clarity.

I didnt bring up the issue even i just stated a standing of why i was agaisnt griefing. Lost is just a troll pay no attention to him. I live that way i leave it alone and i respect their rights to do it. So I'm sick in Lost's eyes for thinking like that. I leave people to their own accord unless they bring it in front of me or into a public place. And a pedophile isnt going to be interested in age play all that much since its an adult behind the avatar. They want real children. And yes if there are pedophiles here banning them could lead to worse things in the real world. I dont hate anyone in SL in fact i have a rule at the place i run that if a guest or staff member has a problem with a said group leave it at the door just dont bring it up. Its courtesy and Just because i respect people's rights to do things doesnt make me weird and most people know that.

Lost does this kind of thing to instill anger. Its what a troll does quite sad really.

No, no... it WAS changed. No maybe about it.



I think my head just exploded.



He posted a private conversation and named names. Two violations. We might start to believe his apology if he actually took the time to read the ToS.

I'm not defending him i think he should be banned if he was greifering. Everyone can grief thats a truth. As i said we all have it in us to do it most of us jsut dont act on it. Your going to tell me you have never once wanted to shoot a person in SL. Thats what i said and its the truth. You have gotten mad at someone and thought about shooting them or wanting to attack them at some point. Its just normal to think like that. It doesnt make you a bad person. Its in there you just dont actually act on doing it. I never went into defending this greifer i wanted to get some facts first. He shouldnt of griefed but griefers can change.

My only real defense if you reread was that fact that griefers can change. I think people griefing need harsher punishments then simple land bans really and LL needs to take it more seriously then they do. I was just simply stating things. And i think preemptive banning for a what if situation is wrong. I dont like griefers. I ban them myself quite fast in fact. I just think that there are some concerns as others do with these lists.

While i may not like griefers as i stated if we go by the what if or sheerly what people say alot of things might be weird. It is wrong to grief and i stated that. If they decide to grief ban them. I will to if they grief me. While I do protect the rights of people in sl to do as they please i dont include griefers in there. If they are going to they should be banned. Just remember that a person griefing is not an incling of a group they are involved in even if several people are in that group.

Ok see real easy to just say that. So now i have that out there but it is a tos violation in that terms yeah. Ok well regardless of that being defunct the premptive banning and the like being a bit off does still stand with me. I think in a way its judging actions that havent been taken but may be and to a degree thats wrong depending how severe the plot really is and how serious the people are about it. Also the banning of a group for a few group members actions is quite a bit off to i dont agree with it but i do kind of understand why people take these actions. They are welcome to i dont have a problem if they do im just shooting out my opinion on the matter if you agree or not cool whatever.

I think i need to explain this bit not sure you understood it.
"i was jsut curious cuz the quote after was changed to meaning that had to be changed as well but i do know that now and while that may be off as far as breaking the rules it may of been to back up some sort of case he had."

Basically i as curios cuz stuff was changed apparently and i wasnt really aware of it hehe. Was stating the quote after it must of been changed then as well and also that chat logs are somtimes used on the forums but arnt always viewed as a TOS violation unless actual names are named in which this case apparently they were. I use the term mabye a bit to much. I meant must of.

Just a side note folks dont take my tones on anything harshly i write from a very kind of calm/serene sensible base in my head it just sometimes comes off a bit harsh as my fingers for some reason get ahead of my mind.

Bwaaahahahaaahahahaaaa!!! I totally missed this. Oh man, that's rich.

Bal to a degree i agree with you but the lawsuit thing is a little to far. Speak with them kindly this just makes things sound worse for you in all honesty and makes you look like a bad guy really. I dont think they should ban a group for actions but mabye you should talk with members of your group then and make it a priority to let them know if they are going to be griefing to leave the group or dont bother joining it at all. I told this to an employee of mine last week if she felt she was going to grief or shoot at people wearing the club i owns tag she'd be fired. She left promptly.

I was contacted by someone regarding a situation where he though my group was involved in something and he has my heartfelt apology. Im very sorry it happened and considering my stance against griefers that was the action taken. I asked him to report her promptly as well. You just wanna take it to far when if you actually wish to mabye talk to them calmly and rationally about it as well as members of your groups mabye there will be a solution. Saying things about law suits just makes people not want to bother to work it out and it'd get thrown out of court fast as hell.

Geeze this is going way off topic... o.o

I just wan't to make something clear. Rons first reply was AWSOME. ;p I couldn't have said it better myself. However bal... As i and ron stated earlier there issnt a ban list system. its basicly a group that close furry admins are in and we pass alone news. Like if ssoandso griefs fox valley, one of their officers either opens a session or makes a vote about it to announce it. it's up to the other sim officers to do with that info whatever they wish.

While you might be banned from 1 sim the other might not. I personally have NOT banned YOU from serenity woods or any of the other sims i help out in. I never witnessed or heard of any griefings done by you so as far as i know your clean. I've even talked to you a couple times and found you to be a nice guy.

Bal - to clarify: (and without giving out any personal info)

In checking the BanLink database, you were banned by one location that subscribes to the system, and only one other location currently 'trusts' this site, which is mine (The Shelter). Anotherwords: you have only been banned from two locations as a result of BanLink. (However, the other location is a single large landowner, so it may feel like you're banned from a lot of places.)

Getting off my ban list is as simple as sending me a friendly IM, explaining that you're not a griefer or intend to grief, and you'll be off as soon as I'm in world. Same goes for the Original Poster. Even if you've really griefed me, I nearly always give 2nd or 3rd chances - provided you can IM me maturely & reasonably and ask for another chance.

Getting off the ban list of the other site that feels you were a griefer however, involves you speaking to them. I'm fairly certain you know who that site is - because you've already spoken to them.

Cheers!

Threatening a lawsuit has no legal matters in this department since they own the sim and have the right to ban anyone they choose. Lets say Jack Whatshisname bans Philip Linden from his sim (even though lindens can bypass it). Philip might be kinda ticked or probably wont care. But he has no legal authority to sue them for it.

Lina = defending a known griefer
Lost = ignorant and intolerant

Now to your rooms both of you... and NO dinner.

Im not defending him i stated that several times i think he got what he deserved and would of taken the same action against him. I was just stating a few concerns of mine about greifers in general as far as preemptive banning before anything is done. It doesnt work to well unless they are attacking a set group of people in that sense. If they are going to attack a set group by all means that group should be able to ban anyone they see fit as a whole community if they wish. Its not meant to defend just to express those concerns. I just kinda understand things a bit more about peer pressure and wanting to fit in with a group and its usually not the way to go (i learned that cuz of my brother almost dying from it). Its still that persons actions and thusly they should be punished for it.

Like i said i dont defend griefing i take a strong stand against it myself. I've banned at least 3 or 4 people in the last week. Freaking people shooting nukes around i swear =/. I wish more could be done and more was done about griefers really it is a problem but its going to happen =/. Sadly people act on urges to attack people you get it in real life as well. I accept all social groups and as such i dont really tolerate attacks made on specific groups or even hateful comments made towards specific groups.

I'm not defending if you reread it some of it may come off the wrong way as i stated i kind of get ahead of myself when typing and it sometimes sounds off. Its not meant to defend at all in any sense what so ever aside from enacting on pre emptive bans if its not an attack on a set group really.

ty for the idea i finished writing my own ^^

You've got a funny way of showing that then.


No, I've never wanted to shoot anyone in SL (outside of games with willing participants, of course). If someone annoys me inworld, I don't associate with them. It's that simple.

If someone does something bad, I simply AR them, ban them from my land, and make sure I never have to deal with them again. For repeat offenders who do things like hang out just across the border and launch things onto my property, I simply call a Linden to the scene (and they're always there within seconds), and then the offending person is gone.

So, what would shooting them possibly accomplish? First, it's exactly what they want, so it's not like it could be satisfying to me in any way to give it to them. Second, it would give them an excuse to AR me themselves. It's far more satisfying to see to it that they experience some real consequences for their actions (like the OP in this thread has) than that I stoop to their level.

So, I repeat, not everyone has it in them to grief. Just because you think that way doesn't mean everyone does.



No, it's your opinion, not ultimate truth. You're projecting your own thoughts and feelings onto others. Learn to tell the difference.


I have? All this time I never knew. Tell me, when was it? I seem to have missed it myself. Whom was I thinking about shooting? Whom did I want to attack? Please enlighten me. Clearly you must have some sort of mystical insight into my mind to know all this, right?

Oh wait a minute. Maybe it's just possible that you think I must have to think a certain way because that happens to be how you think, and it doesn't occur to you that it's just you. Which possibility makes more sense? Kind of a no-brainer, don't you think?


Normal for YOU, maybe, not for me. Whether it makes you a bad person or not is debatable.



What's important is WHY yo don't do it, not just the fact that you don't. If you refrain simply to avoid punsihment, then you're a bad person, but if you refrain because you can empathize with other people so making them feel bad goes against your morals, that's a different story. For the OP, and for you, I suspect the former is the case, and that's pretty sad.


Sure sounded like a defense. Yes, people CAN change, but that doesn't mean they necessarily DO. According to your own described belief system, wanting to grief is an ever present feeling. You seem to think it's there for everyone, but the truth is it's only there for certain people. Why should any of us take the risk that a person like that would succumb to temptation a second time, especially when there's absolutely no evidence whatsoever that any change has taken place?

Posting chat logs without permission, and begging not to be punished anymore is hardly a sign of any kind of change.



This is the one part of all this where I agree with you. There is an inherent danger in any form of blacklisting. Anyone can be accused of anything by anyone. That doesn't mean they deserve it. To assume guilt is always wrong.

However, this particular person has admitted his guilt, and his reason for doing so doesn't seem very genuine. Further, nothing you've said here has appeared to be just a simple statement about the nature of ban lists or just the simple fact that people can change. The feeling of everything you've said has been very much that you're suggesting people should believe this particular griefer has changed without any evidence to support that assuption. Therefore, it's a defense of this person, not just a neutral statement.



Sure. I don't think any of what you've said in this paragraph was ever in question. I don't care what groups this person may or may not be a part of; his actions are his own responsibilty.

I do think blacklists are the wrong way to go, which is why I don't subscribe to them myself, but if a group of landowners happen to trust eachother's judgment, that's up to them. Private land is private land.

I'd like to access the list too, I have a few Lindens I would like to add to it.

What i said is just stuff people do you've had the urge to do it and dont try to deny it we all have every single being on the planet at some point has wanted to hurt someone be it in a game or otherwise. It may or may not of been in second life but you have at some point wanted to. I wasnt specifically talking SL but the point of that was to prove that we all have thought about doing something that would be considered greifing at some point in the time we have played online games. If your denying it your simply lying about it because its just normal really.

Im just pointing out that the capacity of the mind would allow anyone to become a griefer. If they dont act on that feeling or the thought there really isnt anything wrong its when someone acts on an idea like this that it becomes a problem and for most of us we have the self control not to do it. Some people arnt that strong willed but i still do agree that their actions are still their own choice even with peer pressure. And it doesnt even need to be thoughts of shooting a person. It could be as simple as wishing someone was dead or whatever the capacity to do it and the thought of you doing something about it has risen before your just have the strength not to act on it like most people do.

In all honesty i dont get the appeal of greifing at all. I mean if someone deliberately did something to me I'd think of retaliating but never would. I'd just file a report and ban them from the land and leave it at that. Although i wish LL was a bit harsher with their punishments about greifing really. I think in all honesty the man power to deal with all the reports just isnt there =/. The basic just of what i said probably came off a bit wrong when i got into people being able to change really.

I think the guy got what he deserved in all honesty and like i said i wish they'd actually enforce harsher punishments for griefing. I dont think he deserves a defense really and if he is breaking other TOS violations he should be booted from SL really. I think the defending part alot of people are reading into the part where i said people can change. A griefer can sincerely stop and not act that way again if and only if he wants to change. As stated by someone else though if he violates the TOS to try and prove it he really isnt helping his case at all. Im just saying in general if people want to sincerely change they can. Some people still hold it against them, while others dont. As the banlink guy stated getting off his is as simple as im'ing and apologizing/speaking to him in a mature manner.

I believe in second chances if someone is really sincere. But thats hard to tell really sometimes. I know alot of people in SL so i usually do check in with people i trust that have bigger popular area's to see if the person has been trouble as of late and other things. I dont usually have griefer problems and push is off on the land so most of the time doesnt do them any good. As stated i dont defend griefing though. And i wish it would stop really its rediculous. If they hate SL or the people of SL so much they can simply leave. Why they grief who the heck knows really =/.

Mabye it came off that way as a defense its not meant to. My statements were meant as nuetral as stated previously i get ahead of myself sometimes and usually dont bother going back and rereading it. Mabye i should start doing that. I dont think anyone should think he changed unless he can sincerely beyond a doubt prove it. I think people can change and mabye mashing the two together into a hodge podge of stuff really didnt come off right. I honestly dont think this guy is sincere he may or may not be. With everything laid out he in my opinion really isnt sincere. I dont know of a way for someone to prove they are aside from a string of a spotless record reported in which in all likely hood wont happen.

He may be mad he got banned but he went with a group of his own accord and did things to a certain community and may of gotten banned from several area's for it. If you attack a community expect it to happen. He should in all likely hood if sorry create a new alt and get on with his SL. If he was sincere then mabye he'll be fine if not he'll likely be banned again.

The sad part of that is they can bypass it.

To quote the post saying we all have a little griefer in us...
I don't. I never wanted to purposly tick off inocent people.
And i never have done such a thing.