Razist Abuse On Sl And No One Move A Finger!

Again, it's not illegal in America, which is where the servers are located.

Are you sure?

Can you show me laws of the US State of lindens labs laboratory that write this? Not is a crime to enter and make no autorized actions over another computer if who make the actions not is the owner?
Are you sure that this is possible over ALL US ?

Show me the acts please, and the "Giurysprudence".

Thx.

Actually LL does not stand for it this is THIER country, but I could walk down My Street USA shouting through a megaphone that I hates gays, lesbians and Jews and it would be my opinion and NOT illegal. Crude and deserving of an ass kicking, but not illegal

Ah, it doesn't work that way - Laws dont exist to make things legal, its the other way around. I would have to show it is illegal, not that it is legal.

But yes, I'm sure.

That's hot.

it doesn't work that way? Who say this? You? Who are you?

I'm a lawer in Italy and Romany (if you want visit my Office, come in Rome i will take you my adress!), my boy, and i know very well laws so please stop to play whith me.
If you want discuss about laws go to College, begin a graduate like me and from 5 years return here and maybe you will be able to speak about laws whith me!

I know your pissed about the griefers but your kinda hacking on the wrong person and may not be totally understanding what was being said.

Pheraps you have problems to understand what is write here.
It is illegal make abuse to another people!
You understand now?

*Throws up hands and walks off*

Let me take a shot at this.....

Almost all forms of expression are protected in the U.S., as long as it's not pornographic or inciting others to violence. Criminal charges are not applicable in this type of situation. Merely shouting obnoxious opinions, no matter how terrible, intolerant, or offensive, is not illegal. This is different from many European countries, which make advocating things like Nazi ideology or holocaust denial a criminal offense.

Probably very little of what is considered 'abuse' in SL terminology would be considered abuse in any form by the City and County of San Francisco, the State of California, or the United States of America, the three jurisdictions in which LL operates.

Reitsuki does have a point, in that one doesn't have to pass a law to make something legal unless it's already been made illegal. Otherwise, laws don't make things legal.

So let's drop the legal thing. But you've definitely got a fair point - in-world, this type of thing needs to be dealt with much more consistently, harshly, and effectively, IMHO.

I tried to reason and request patience but came to the same conclusion. There is no way I can condone the actions of her griefers, but I am rapidly coming to the conclusion that in this particular case...

If you want to you can describe what happened, with names, and post your screen shots at forums.sluniverse.com, forums.secondcitizen.com, or forums.sldrama.com, if you think this would benefit your cause. I suspect the offenders would enjoy the publicity.

When I want a liaison to respond in a timely manner, I use the Find dialog, people tab, with the online box checked, put in Linden as the search term, and check the resulting list for the ones that have liaison in their group list. You can't expect an instant answer, and they may be busy with other problems. If the first one doesn't satisfy you, try another one. Don't transfer your anger with the people bothering you to the people you are wanting to help you.

If you are filing abuse reports using the "view PvP abuse" menu option, make sure to add more detail than just the "pushed you with a script" or "bumped you with a physical object" message that is entered automatically.

If people were bothering me repeatedly in a way that violates the rules I would call the support number and or send email to [email]support@secondlife.com[/email].

She's not that far off base.

I could see an argument being made that since you are only authorized to use SL within the TOS and community standards, using it after violating them could be called unauthorized computer access, which is a crime most everywhere.

Remember the first amendment only protects us from government censorship. It doesn't apply when you are using private resources. You have no right to use a private resource, other than within the terms of whatever contract you have with the owner.

Until such a time when LL abides by their own tos and cs and treats everyone with equality. There is no way in hell this platform can or will be taken seriously. Consider it LL loss not yours. Kids are not allowed in SL main grid. I suspect they are kids. Again the above applies. Countless times abuse reports are filed and nothing is done. Apparently LL would rather protect its acumulated subscription fees rather than its subscribers. That my dear is what I take from this situation.

Ban em all from your land and your friends lands as well.

Hugz
Cat

Yes, it is: "This is different from many European countries, which make advocating things like Nazi ideology or holocaust denial a criminal offense".
In Italy this kind of abuse is a crime: i can call "Legge Mancino" that punish this abuses.

Now i'm working in Rl (yes also on Sunday) so i have no time to quote all but i want say THX to all people that write here to try to help me.

I hope that Lindens will arrive soon here to examine my considerations and take the appropriate actions against this kind of razist scum.
From my point of view this is a very important problem, more important then the graphics performance of Sl, for example. All people can be shoot , one day, from this awfull razists so it is a problem of all the community.

Also i hope that in the next release of SL, Lindens will want to include a more efficient procedure for PvP abuse, more quickly !. It is no difficult! All people here have a credit card. It is sufficient block the credit card account or see the name of the credit card' s owner to notificate an appropriate action!.

Again: the only that have the POWER to resolve this are the Lindens so i can' t understand, once again, why they do no resolve this problems ! It is a money question?

I'm actually a college graduate, working towards a doctorate, thank you very much, and unlike you, I am from America. I'm quite familiar with our legal system in this regard, as it has several times in the recent past been an issue for me.

It's very simple - in the American legal system, a thing is legal until a law prohibits it. No law exists to prohibit what you are talking about, QED it is legal.

I honestly don't care if you have a legal degree in Italy or even Canada, you are evidently not terribly familiar with how the American legal system works, particularly as relates to the first amendment of the Consitution. And since LL is an American company, located in America, as are the servers you are accessing, American laws hold sway, NOT Italian. Thankfully, unlike most of Europe, we haven't made saying naughty things illegal yet.

Ok to clarify how SL works and why only US laws apply to SL in this situation. when greifers are attacking you in SL they are not attacking your lan, network, or computer. they are attacking the avatar that represents you in SL. in SL everything, even the movement of said avatar is controled by the server which is located in the US and subject to US laws. the secondlife client connects to the servers and renders what the servers tell it to. there is no way anyone inworld in SL is attacking your computer directly when they attack your avatar in SL.

Of course - that could be put another way. That you tolerate racist abuse.

Don't get too snotty about Europe - if America's supposed love of free speech is exemplified in these forums then it falls a long way short of its ideals.

Now, see, this is where things get fun. As a private entity, they are allowed to control usage and access in ways as they see fit. First Amendment protections, in general, only extend to public domains. We are, at this moment, using the resources of a private system, located in a private place.

I can walk out on the street screaming "I hate *random group of people*, *random group of people* should all be sent to *random country*" and this is protected. If I go and say, punch someone for being a member of it, then I can be arrested for 'hate crimes', which are punished.

If I walk into a business, saying this same stuff, they are completely within their right to deny me service and to have me removed from the building.

As an example, the Ku Klux Klan, one of America's oldest racist groups. They can hold rallies and demonstrations, saying what they want on public property. On private property, it's another matter.

Linden Labs has chosen in the past to act against racism, nazi references, and other matters, but their enforcement of anything seems to lack consistency.

I sympathize with the original poster, and agree that stuff should be dealt with.

If Linden Labs operated servers in Italy, then they would have to enact protections to prevent things that ARE against Italian law, so that they could not be liable.

And, to the original poster: You may be a lawyer, but you do not appear well versed in the concept of networking. The users in question are in no way accessing your network. They are accessing a centralized system, located within the United States, of which you are also connected. Second Life is accessing your system, and it is completely voluntary, as you are free to disconnect of your own free will at any time.

If these people managed to get you to say your IP in open chat, and were accessing the system, in that fashion, it would possibly be against various computer crime laws, depending on the location.

I'm surprised to hear that Italy is strict about racism. I remember a news report a few years ago about things said (chants) and done (even with huge banners) at a soccer match that was very offensive/racist. I guess the police cant arrest thousands of people. I'm not 100% certain but I'm pretty sure it was Italy.

Hmnnn.

You know, you can come here and discuss the fact you're upset about a griefer.

But it's not going to fix a darn thing. Seriously now, we are talking not about LL's ability to deal with griefers, we are looking at the fact that griefers usually outnumber them several times over. Lindens are usually spending most of their day running from fire to fire and putting them out to the best of their ability.

Now, as to preventing such attacks in the first place? I never have been able to. You can make it annoying for them: Get a security device and put their name in it. Have it set to instant TP home AFTER you have a recorded and complained about instance of their attack. Also, this way it's even a good idea NOT to turn on ban, as it's easier to let them on the land and make them have to TP back each time. They get bored REAL quick with that.

As a final note, I understand you are upset. You even are rightfully upset. You are NOT right in the attitude you have shown here so far. If you want people to talk and give opinions, then learn to deal with them on an equal footing. Nobody here griefed you, so keep a level head.

Either that or you can just keep ranting. Either way, I've said what needed to be said and am "exiting, stage right!"

I'm fairly comfortable with that statement. A more accurate way of saying it would be, we tollerate racism. Abuse, no, we don't tend to tollerate that. If someone walks up to me and says "Gay people like you are scum", I don't consider that abuse - that's an idiot with his own opinion, which he's entitled to.



These forums have never been "free", they are owned by a private company.

I don't know, if somebody came up to me and said something like that I'd consider that the intent was to insult - why else would they approach me and use the word "scum", a loaded term?

Now, if somebody were to say "all gay people are going to hell" that might not be intended as abuse.

I guess we define abuse differently... Anything I can walk away from none the worse for wear I really have a hard time classifying as "abuse".

Well, still... You should not have to put up with abuse OR petty annoyance.

That's just MY opinion though. I still run with the antique concepts of hospitality, and deal poorly with people annoying my guests.