llPushObject Restriction Explanation

Hey guys, Cube Linden here, everybody's favorite sentient prim. I've put on my forum scuba gear and dived the general forums to give you an explanation of exactly what to expect with the llPushObject restriction, since there's so many threads speculating on the subject already. ^_^

First off, I stress that is the OPT-IN. Push Restriction will be available as a parcel option or a region option, and will be set to off by default.

Secondly, this is a /restriction/, not an outright ban. Banning llPO for everyone on the parcel would make quite a few things go all explody (or, well, not explody). So, here's the ruleset.

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llPushObject will work on Agents (i.e. residents (i.e. you)) if:

On a parcel owned by single resident:

- The originator of the call is a script in a prim owned by the owner of the parcel
- The originator of the call is a script in a prim owned by the target of the push. (i.e. you can push yourself)

Parcel Deeded to Group:
- The originator of the call is a script in a prim set to the group of the parcel
- The originator of the call is a script in a prim deeded to the group of the parcel

Parcel Owned by Single Resident w/ Group Set (but not deeded to group):
- All 4 conditions above will pass.

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Between all these rules, we should have a way for games and combat to still work, while still restricting some of the more common griefing techniques. This definitely isn't the end of griefing, but it's a start. Er, a start to the end. Yes. ^^;;;

I'm going through the other threads and taking notes on things to look at next in terms of griefing tactics and what, if anything, we can do to help out on these issues.

Works for me.

Now heres to hoping its not horribly bugged or broken.

cube....but..what most wonder is,someone pushing someonone that is in a parcel with push restricted from the outside,it will work?and theres a height limit for that restriction like scripts?

LEt me be the first to give you a big MUAH for that, Cube!! =^.^=

~Jessy

Seriously, the easiest thing you could do would be for it to be a menu toggle for all pushes against the avatar.

The benefits? For a push weapon to work, then both players are consenting by having "push" enabled against the avatar. If someone sets off a nuke in a club, then only those who have 'push' enabled will be affected, and unless you are into combat, you'd probably have it turned off anyway. To fire a weapon, the avatar has to turn on push, which in turn opens them up to being pushed themselves in retaliation.

The downside? None that I can see.

Having this in the next update would be great, thankyou.

Lewis

Griefer sets himself 'nopush' and goes around the world pushing newbies who don't have it set; dropping C4 on a group that is unset, and waiting for them to come back while rolling in his 'invincibility'.

I suppose we could then put the onus on the newbie who didn't have no-push set. Because after all, it really is their fault for not RTFM, right?

Cube? Please verify:

1: If a shooter is on a push-enabled parcel, and he shoots at two targets, one on a push-enabled parcel, and one on a push disabled parcel, he can only shoot the one on the push enabled parcel. The one on the push disabled parcel is safe, even though the shooter is not in the push disabled area.

2: If a shooter is on a push disabled parcel, and he shoots at two targets, one on a push-enabled parcel, and one on a push disabled parcel, he can not shoot any target, unless he is the owner of the parcel he is on (one of the above 4 conditions in Cube's post for push still working apply), both are safe.

If "Push" was, by default, off... that would solve the problem, until anyone chooses to turn it on.

Lewis

I think you missed the part that you have to have yourself set to push in order for you to be able to push. That's the "opening up yourself to being pushed if you want to push" part.

As for newbies, it is all part of learning to play SL to know about the situations and how to deal with them. Add a station on Help Island which describes griefing and how to avoid it. /shrug

I support this idea, since I have posted it elsewhere in the past.

Thanks for the clarification, Cube -- it's a land *option*, which is cool.

(Edited the rest of the post that was based on reading the original post *without* it being clear that it was an option, not forced.)

Great stuff, Cube, thank you so much!

Next, do you think you guys could figure out a way to counter trapping other avatars (cages, etc)? After the gigantic push stuff, caging is the second favorite griefer tactic.


This is exactly the issue, and one which every other MMOG which tried to mix PvP and non-PvP together has run into. It would make sense that if you were able to set your own avie for "nopush" it also disabled your ability to push other avatars. It'd be kind of like the PvP flags in EQ and other games -- you either consent or you cannot participate in any way, even to heal your friends or loot bodies.

I would agree with Lewis to the extent that while push is disabled for an avatar, they should be unable to activate any device that uses push, which I believe was what he was trying to say, Michi.

But he would also have to be unable to leave any functioning push-scripted objects behind, such as explosives, that would activate later if he turned it back on. This would prevent him from dropping a nuke and several packs of C4, walking away, and then activating them by turning his 'invincibility' off.

You're just mad cuz you sell guns.

That's one reason, so?

Addendum: I'm unclear on today's change which mutes banned people inside of the land from which they're banned. It has been suggested that someone who was banned from a parcel should also be banned from rezzing prims or using scripts that affected anything inside the land from which they're banned. I don't think that's been implemented yet, has it? Or is that what the parcel mute thing does?

The downside here is that you are allowing people who are into griefing and combat to use the rest of us as a playground and battlefield.

This would enable and encourage griefing behavior while simultaneously making it impossible to really AR them for it.

Running gun battles through crowded clubs come to mind, with the greifers pleading "but no one got hurt but us," when the Lindens showed up.

Greifing has always been more about harassment than about being pushed. If I am engaged in my own activity at my own club or home, you should not be allowed to chase your targets across it or through it with your guns blazing unless I want you to.

The Push Restriction is an option (About Land > Options > Push Restriction) that land owners can turn on and off. When it's off, llPushObject works as it always had and you can launch your friends and foes across the grid with glee. When turned on however, the rules that the talking cube posted are in effect.

Oh, an option, eh?

Well, that's an *entirely* different story, then.

I am all for giving landowners more parcel options, especially to restrict griefers. As long as current functionality is in place as an option, then I will have to withdraw my previous comments. Nice job LL!

No. If a landowner wants their land to be a free-fire zone, he just leaves this option off, and any weapon weilding avatar can play with any weapon they wish. Both his guests and the griefers can shoot at each other to their heart's content. If he wants to restrct his firing range to members only, and exclude griefers, he can establish an access group and only allow member of that group onto his firing range.
Nope. They just have to be on any land that still allows push, which remains the default state. And there is no reason that sim owners like you can't grant rights to your renters, via the new land controls, to control that on their own parcels.
Combat scripts will work fine anywhere that the landowner says push is OK. You want to go shoot someone, seek out a combat sim or a firing range. But not my front lawn, or my store, thanks.

Ok, let's see here.

First off, these rules apply to the position of the TARGET. In llPushObject, you specify the key of the target in order to push them. llPushObject now finds the position of the target on the region, and if the region or parcel the target is above has the push restriction on, the ruleset is applied.

Here's some of the examples provided so far:



Yes. The target in the push restricted parcel will have the ruleset applied, so unless the shooter falls in the aforementioned rules, they will not be pushed. The target in the push enabled parcel will always be pushed.



Ok, if I'm reading this correctly (still sipping my morning coffee so my vertices are a little droopy z.Z ), this isn't what will happen. Remember, we're worried about the target, not the originating location of the shot.

So, like the last example, the target above the push-enabled parcel will still be pushed, and the target above the push-disabled parcel will be pushed if the shooter is the owner of the parcel the target is above.

Did all that make sense?

Yes, and it wasn't clear from the original post that it would be an option. (you were writing your post as I was writing my clarification, probably)

Thank you for finally clarifying this, Cube. That's all you have to say. In fact, this should be part of the documentation/official release notes since this is the very first thing I wondered when it was announced.

Made perfect sense to me.

Little words:

If you stand on Push Restrcted Land you can NOT be pushed. Doesn't matter where the "griefer" is.

YAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

~Jessy

*noddles* Thank you, Cube, that does help and answered my question about this.

Good now people can be less worryed about weapons and so on.

from my understanding it will make it so guns and other weapons don't work in land set to this correct me if im wrong, Its how i understand it but im not sure