If account sales are against TOS, why are they permitted?

We have to get written consent of the Lindens in order to have sex now?

This is not going to be popular at all.

Now if we can actually get some sex by writing to the Lindens and asking, that might be a way to increase customer retention.

Martin wasn't far off when he said "E-bay" influence and selling accounts.

There are many who sell WoW accounts, DAoC accounts, and yes, even specific names for accounts on many gaming sites, such as Pogo and Yahoo. People will pay for their oft-used "nickname" and/or in SL terms -- an account name that someone truly wants.

And while SL doesn't have to expose the policies and guidelines that they would follow in "what would constitue a valid sale of an existing SL account" -- it would be nice to know what a valid sale would be.

SL wills have been mentioned before -- so that creator's content could continue "living" in SL while he/she are no longer living in the real world. But in the instance wherein a player decides that he/she wants to leave, has a full inventory of items that do sell well -- what are the standards/guidlines that SL follows in permitting and/or denying such a transfer?

Don't worry about sex in SL SuezanneC -- we all know sex doesn't sell. There's actually a living avatar in-world that's proof that telehub land is more profitable than selling sex. As far as sex with the Linden's? I'm thinking squirrels, and I don't know why.

Sorry about that toejammer.

Now that's just Vicious.

This is one more episode in Cristiano's neverending saga of: "People did it for years, I never care, Anshe does it now, I suddenly care".

Of course the account transfer here was done with the full knowledge of Linden Lab. It was the easy way to make sure that the large amount of content is still available to shoppers in SL. If you face similar situation you may want write to [email]support@lindenlab.com[/email].

It would be nice if I could believe this thread was really about TOS rules and not about somebody's obsession with my person and the fact that the account in question directly compete with his animation business

Well, it is bothersome if "because X person pays a lot of money to LL, they allow them to commit TOS violations".

How many extra sims should the other landowners of SL buy in order to get permission to grief Lazarus Divine?

That's a form of FIC.

Hmm. I wonder how "accommodating" LL would be if some schlub like me, who doesn't have a huge stake in SL, wanted to sell my account.

"People did it for years" doesn't excuse anything; if it's against the TOS, then I care, regardless of who did it. It should be available to everyone, or available to noone.

And regardless whether LL consented or not, there needs to be some indicator to potential customers that this is no longer the original holder of the account.

Business relationships are built over time on trust. If I spend a year getting to a point where I'd drop a large sum of money on a particular business, and just before I do, someone else buys the account without my knowledge, suddenly I'm in a position where I have no way to know I'm risking that money on someone I wouldn't otherwise.

And it isn't just about risk. I also vote with my dollars. Business methods, beliefs, behavior, etc. are considerations as important to me as the quality of the actual products someone is offerring. I refuse to deal with entities I have little respect for. If a person that I refuse to deal with can drop some amount of money and buy the account of a person I do deal with regularly, without my knowledge, I'm not going to be very happy with anyone involved.

Don't worry the rule will change when LL can figure out how to get a cut from selling accounts.
Just like currency sales. When they figured out how to get a piece of the action they were all for it.

SL it's all about money now


Rox

Being that cynical must get tiring after awhile. Are you ever worried that your face will freeze like that?

or its just honest.

Anshe Anshe Anshe come on just admit that what you want for Christmas is a SL monopoly.

Go for it, perhaps you will consider my suggestions for SL in the future when your running the place. Because at this rate you will be soon.

Actually, Anshe, I was unaware of all of it until two people came to me about it from completely different angles and asked me to post about it because I am not afraid of you. It's not about "it's fine until Anshe does it", it's about "Anshe thinks she can do whatever the fuck she wants because she spends a lot of money in SL". Your pervasive attitude that you are above it all is sickening. You can throw out all the smoke and mirrors you want about it being about other things, but it is about you breaking the same rules that we all have to abide by. Linden Lab has repeatedly said they do not give consent, and that sale of accounts is prohibited. Why are you an exemption?

Given the circumstances surrounding this particular account. I would think someone as supposedly moral as yourself wouldn't touch it, but nothing you do really surprises me. Then to openly be soliciting even more accounts on your group IMs - you just really want to own everything and everyone in SL.

the tos is cover your ass. they aren't going to use it when it will hinder progress. they will use it to limit liability. it's not really a mystery. they want to limit themselves and players from exposure to fraud.

if the original account seller contacts LL to get the account back, if it was sold without explicit written approval, i think you could see the sale revoked. buyer beware!

Against TOS or not, there is something very wrong about transfer of accounts. If LL do allow this in certain circumstances, is there anything to signify that a different person is controlling that av?

if they check the credit card perhaps?

this is a very good point hiro. it reveals the very conflicting nature of the SL account. on the one hand it's the property of LL. on the other hand it's the virtual identity of a player.

philip pushed the idea that the virtual economy does not need RL identity to enact honest business practices. it could rely on virtual world reputation. when accounts can be bought and sold, virtual reputation is no longer tied to a person but to an account. reputation can be a commodity to buy and sell.

i don't see a problem with buying and selling accounts, because i think that virtual world identities are not suitable for making binding business relationships anyway. but to do so without possibilities of fraud, it should be done through LL. also there should be ways to manage objects created by an account. for example:

i have a dozen popular creations. i make a sale of my account to another person. but before i do, i transfer full mod copies of my creations to an alt account. what prevents this kind of fraud at the moment?

as for the TOS - it is a cover your ass document. it is not there to restrict second life activities by residents, it's meant to limit linden labs exposure to liability. sure you can go around buying and selling accounts, but if it bites you in the butt and you get defrauded, don't go crying to LL.

this is similar to the buying and selling of island sim land, where it would be easy to defraud a player. LL doesn't stop the two or three established and trusted businesses from doing this, but their official position is that island sim alnd cannot be bought and sold. my opinion is they do this to tell players "buyer beware - you aren't going to get support from LL so do your research."

I meant other residents. What if your business partner sells their account? Now if they're a decent partner they would of course tell you anyway, but what if they don't? We always associate an avs name with a particular person controlling it. If an av of a friend, business partner, customer, or what ever changes hands, everyone should be made aware of it.

Also, everday SL pretty much runs on trust and reputation. What is that reputation worth if its now in the hands of someone else?

There is no economic heaven without an economic hell. Simple game theory tells us this is completely ludicrous.

The value of a contract is equal to the min(cost to party a, cost to party b).

This might work with content, actually. Because the content itself becomes the pain (it suffers ). But for things like Ginko ..

Do you have a link to where he proposes this?

he talked about this in the sop3 virtual stock exchange panel.

Businesses get sold every day in RL. Consumers are usually not aware of this and they trust the previous owner sell to somebody trustworthy.

As for the TOS, it say:



What you need to do is get the written consent from Linden.

Yes, I agree with everything Anshe says.

She's just acting rationally, which we could all use a lot more of.

What really bothers me is Adam's post regarding this. My guess is that he's out of the loop.


And Cristiano, as a content developer, you should be very happy about this turn of a events. This makes our content that much more valuable because it's available for resale.

Maybe the transfer was done with the full knowledge of LL, but I believe that it should also be done with the full knowledge of the wider SL community as well. Is there anywhere on this person's content or shop that now states that it is you Anshe that owns it? If not then I see that as a form of deception. You will be continuing to trade of that accounts repution which is not rightly yours.
So the person had to leave in a hurry, I assume you paid a fair price for it, or did you treat them the same way you treat landowners that have to sell in a hurry due to a real life emergency or crisis?

The way SL is going, I begin to wonder how long it will be before we see a name change to Anshe's Second Life. Much the same way that we see events, buildings, etc named after the major stakeholder/sponsor in real life.

That's absolutely crazy IMO.

If accounts are transferred, they should be flagged as such. This is not just a business, it's the in world identity of a person.