Mark, how about checking udp packets from dreamhost.
If you can see them, then it must be dreamhost blocking them
Someone can send UDP packets via netcat pretty easily
Welcome to the Second Life Forums Archive
These forums are CLOSED. Please visit the new forums HERE
Dreamhost bouncing LL mail? |
|
|
blaze Spinnaker
1/2 Serious
Join date: 12 Aug 2004
Posts: 5,898
|
11-06-2005 12:31
|
|
Mark Linden
Funky Linden Monkey
Join date: 20 Nov 2002
Posts: 179
|
11-06-2005 15:16
Mark, how about checking udp packets from dreamhost. If you can see them, then it must be dreamhost blocking them Someone can send UDP packets via netcat pretty easily I had a talk with Internap today, and we did some digging. It appears that Level3 may be administratively blocking us. As Level3 appears to be Dreamhost's bandwidth provider, this explains why: a) Dreamhost has no idea about the block. b) we have no idea about the block. c) Internap has no idea about the block. d) There is, in fact, a block. I've emailed [email]abuse@dreamhost.com[/email] with the details from a non-blocked email address; hopefully that will get some sort of response on Monday. Otherwise, I'll dig through our voice mail and see if Dreamhost left a contact number. If they didn't, then we're back to square zero here... there's not a lot that I can do if another company decides to blacklist our IPs without telling us about it. I am sorry this is taking so very long to resolve, though. For those of you keep score, here's what our traceroute looks like now. Note that !A at the end; that means (according to the traceroute docs) that we're being administratively denied, but at least they are telling us so via ICMP. 66.33.213.101 is harpo.dreamhost.com. CODE
|
|
Alondria LeFay
Registered User
Join date: 2 May 2003
Posts: 725
|
11-06-2005 15:33
Francis are you guys running Roam off of Dreamhost? Is it up? Is it using email? No, she is not running Roam off of Dreamhost. It is up last I checked. |
|
blaze Spinnaker
1/2 Serious
Join date: 12 Aug 2004
Posts: 5,898
|
11-06-2005 15:38
ugh.
Excessive bandwidth at cheap rates for SL not making it over peering points. Interesting that it's Level3 causing the pain, one wonders if they're having economic problems with their business model so they're starting to clamp down on this stuff. I was really screwed when my hosting provider got squeezed during the cogent fiasco.. I moved to another provider because of it. Which is expensive, but now I'm wondering if it was Level3 that is unstable. Hopefully this is just the case of some LSL scripts going crazy with llEmail and is just a dreamhost issue. Of course, it could still be something at dreamhost/ll but that does seem unlikely. Good call, Adam.. |
|
Huns Valen
Don't PM me here.
Join date: 3 May 2003
Posts: 2,749
|
11-06-2005 17:33
stuff _____________________
|
|
Hiro Pendragon
bye bye f0rums!
Join date: 22 Jan 2004
Posts: 5,905
|
11-06-2005 22:26
I had a talk with Internap today, and we did some digging. It appears that Level3 may be administratively blocking us. As Level3 appears to be Dreamhost's bandwidth provider, this explains why: a) Dreamhost has no idea about the block. b) we have no idea about the block. c) Internap has no idea about the block. d) There is, in fact, a block. I've emailed [email]abuse@dreamhost.com[/email] with the details from a non-blocked email address; hopefully that will get some sort of response on Monday. Otherwise, I'll dig through our voice mail and see if Dreamhost left a contact number. If they didn't, then we're back to square zero here... there's not a lot that I can do if another company decides to blacklist our IPs without telling us about it. I am sorry this is taking so very long to resolve, though. For those of you keep score, here's what our traceroute looks like now. Note that !A at the end; that means (according to the traceroute docs) that we're being administratively denied, but at least they are telling us so via ICMP. 66.33.213.101 is harpo.dreamhost.com. Thanks, Mark. And Level 3 officially sucks monkey ... erm ... elbow ... after they were doing the same blocking that hosed up the video at SLCC. Hooray deregulation and selective service providing!!!!!!!!11111oneoneoentwo _____________________
Hiro Pendragon
------------------ http://www.involve3d.com - Involve - Metaverse / Emerging Media Studio Visit my SL blog: http://secondtense.blogspot.com |
|
blaze Spinnaker
1/2 Serious
Join date: 12 Aug 2004
Posts: 5,898
|
11-06-2005 22:36
Mark, are there any dedicated hosting services at your colo that you can recommend to us?
Perhaps one of us could buy a box and then rent out to SLers. We could provide XML-RPC scripts, mysql stuff, etc, all the usual suspects for SL programming. Low ping, working out of the box, no chance of blockage, etc. |
|
Strife Onizuka
Moonchild
Join date: 3 Mar 2004
Posts: 5,887
|
11-06-2005 23:46
First i would try tech support turbo'ing Level3. If that didn't work i would think about plan B
*evil grin* Plan B I think this will light a fire under Level3 (pretty sure it is legal). This will require a dozen people (or more) willing to spend a bit of time and money on the phone. First what needs to be done is a good solid story should be cooked up and everyone involved knows the details in and out. Then have all the parties for a 3-5 day period call the main headquarters of Level3 pretending to be reports from a newspapers across the country, asking for comment on the latest administrative blocks. Level3 has been getting so much bad press they might want this to go away quietly. Plan C If Plan B fails, contact the press. _____________________
Truth is a river that is always splitting up into arms that reunite. Islanded between the arms, the inhabitants argue for a lifetime as to which is the main river. - Cyril Connolly Without the political will to find common ground, the continual friction of tactic and counter tactic, only creates suspicion and hatred and vengeance, and perpetuates the cycle of violence. - James Nachtwey |
|
Sapphire Bombay
Avatar
Join date: 8 Oct 2003
Posts: 341
|
11-08-2005 07:00
3 Weeks total downtime now without resolution. I'm beginning to wonder if I should switch web hosts or switch MMOs. This pretty much puts it over the top for me - SL is a game. It is definitely not a business platform.
_____________________
Avatar: A temporary manifestation or aspect of a continuing entity.
|
|
Nicola Escher
512 by 512
Join date: 1 May 2003
Posts: 200
|
11-08-2005 08:08
I submitted a support request to DH. I'll let you know what they say.
_____________________
NicolaEscher.com
Tutorials, fashion, and photos. |
|
Nicola Escher
512 by 512
Join date: 1 May 2003
Posts: 200
|
11-08-2005 09:04
from Peter at Dreamhost customer service:
"I've heard of the Second Life community, and we want them to know that we appreciate their praise and their business. This has turned out to be a complicated problem, but I'm going to pass this up to our next tier tech support to ensure this new contact information is received. I hope we can find a resolution soon." The "new contact information" is just Mark Linden's email (which I explained they couldn't use unless it was with an external email system) and the LL phone number. I stressed that quite a few people in the SL community use Dreamhost and many referrals have originated here. Anyone else have any news? _____________________
NicolaEscher.com
Tutorials, fashion, and photos. |
|
Alondria LeFay
Registered User
Join date: 2 May 2003
Posts: 725
|
11-08-2005 17:10
Well, that is more promising than my "It is LL's fault, tell them to stop blocking" or "LL's DNS is not set up right, it should be pointed to our NS" one.
Mark, you have any new feedback? |
|
Mark Linden
Funky Linden Monkey
Join date: 20 Nov 2002
Posts: 179
|
11-08-2005 17:27
Well, that is more promising than my "It is LL's fault, tell them to stop blocking" or "LL's DNS is not set up right, it should be pointed to our NS" one. Mark, you have any new feedback? Not at this point. From what I can tell at this time, the host ge1-l3.dreamhost.com (4.78.192.66) has an admin block for the subnets 66.150.244.0/23 and 69.25.104.0/23. I have left another message on the only contact number I have for Dreamhost (from their whois info), but the outgoing message talks about a downtime event from March, so I don't have a high confidence that they actually check their voice mail. M |
|
Krazzora Zaftig
Do you have my marbles?
Join date: 20 Aug 2005
Posts: 649
|
11-08-2005 17:34
My advice is getting organized. Someone call DreamHost and someone call Level3 (volunteers). When you talk to someone GET A TICKET NUMBER! Make them aware this is affecting multiple customers and come here and post the ticket numbers. Then everyone else call in and relate those ticket numbers. THIS INCLUDES LINDEN LABS! I say this for a few reasons.
A) Universal ticket gets noticed faster. B) One ticket means they cannot ignore refunding due to this unless in TOS as this is more then severe downtime. C) Techs have to acknowledge that ticket or problem else it is obvious the company has no way of tracking troubles. |
|
blaze Spinnaker
1/2 Serious
Join date: 12 Aug 2004
Posts: 5,898
|
11-08-2005 17:46
I think they've done that numerous times.
My advice is to start quoting Mark's traceroute: CODE
And then ask them why! Keep on doing that, eventually a net eng will get the information. The problem is, they probably need to see the traceroute before they'll bother following up. |
|
Foulcault Mechanique
Father Cheesemonkey
Join date: 28 Mar 2005
Posts: 557
|
11-08-2005 17:49
Krazzora is right. If an account is administrativly shut down it was done cause an illegal action was done (download of mp3s, hacking, etc), routers were/are flapping, or they saw a large number of emails hitting the server (usually caused by virii, hacker attakcs, or spammers). I have little personal experience in the area but *looks over his shoulder at his companies abuse department* that is just what I hear on a regular basis. For the record no I don't work at Level3.
_____________________
Foulcault
"Keep telling yourself that and someday you just might believe it." "Every Technomage knows the 14 words that will make someone fall in love with you forever, but she only needed one. "Hello"" Galen from Babylon 5 Crusade I'm moving this over to Off-Topic for further Pez ruminations. |
|
Foulcault Mechanique
Father Cheesemonkey
Join date: 28 Mar 2005
Posts: 557
|
11-08-2005 17:51
I think they've done that numerous times. Qouting a universal ticket number or each custoemr getting a seperate ticket number? There is a HUGE difference. Universal means there is a problem...seperate means it is just a password reset or something. A "master" ticket is for like "City of LA no DSL connection" and a customer ticket is "Customer called in for a password reset like the other 50 today." EDIT: Also providing the information Mark gave will definatly not hurt matters. EDIT 2: Blaze net engineers get thier information from Help Desk, Help Desk has to see an issue, HD will see an issue if there is one ticket with 200 calls on it in one day. _____________________
Foulcault
"Keep telling yourself that and someday you just might believe it." "Every Technomage knows the 14 words that will make someone fall in love with you forever, but she only needed one. "Hello"" Galen from Babylon 5 Crusade I'm moving this over to Off-Topic for further Pez ruminations. |
|
blaze Spinnaker
1/2 Serious
Join date: 12 Aug 2004
Posts: 5,898
|
11-08-2005 18:06
Sorry, I thought they had already done the universal ticket number.
But, I think a net eng has already looked at this problem. I don't think the problem has been escalation but rather that they simply think the problem is on SL's side. |
|
Foulcault Mechanique
Father Cheesemonkey
Join date: 28 Mar 2005
Posts: 557
|
11-08-2005 18:10
It is LL's fault in thier eyes BUT LL needs information from Level3 which they can't get unless Dreamhost calls them to ask for it (maybe LL can get directly not sure). Then LL has to either fix it or tell us how to fix it as we may have caused it.
_____________________
Foulcault
"Keep telling yourself that and someday you just might believe it." "Every Technomage knows the 14 words that will make someone fall in love with you forever, but she only needed one. "Hello"" Galen from Babylon 5 Crusade I'm moving this over to Off-Topic for further Pez ruminations. |
|
blaze Spinnaker
1/2 Serious
Join date: 12 Aug 2004
Posts: 5,898
|
11-08-2005 18:13
No, I think dreamhost believes LL has blocked dreamhost.
I think they are unaware that they are the ones doing the blocking. |
|
blaze Spinnaker
1/2 Serious
Join date: 12 Aug 2004
Posts: 5,898
|
11-08-2005 18:16
To get you up to speed:
Hello, I tried to call you, but got no answer, I left a voicemail detailing the problem. Basically, lindenlab's ISP seems to be blocking us: traceroute NS0.LINDENLAB.COM traceroute to NS0.LINDENLAB.COM (66.150.244.129), 30 hops max, 40 byte packets 1 gw-66-33-192-1.dreamhost.com (66.33.192.1) 4 ms 4 ms 4 ms 2 gw-L3.dreamhost.com (4.78.192.65) 4 ms 4 ms 4 ms 3 ae-1-56.bbr2.LosAngeles1.Level3.net (4.68.102.161) 4 ms ae-1-52.bbr2.LosAngeles1.Level3.net (4.68.102.33) 4 ms ae-1-54.bbr2.LosAngeles1.Level3.net (4.68.102.97) 4 ms 4 as-0-0.mp2.SanFrancisco1.Level3.net (64.159.0.217) 17 ms 26 ms so-3-0-0.mp1.SanFrancisco1.Level3.net (209.247.8.89) 17 ms 5 ge-6-0-0.gar1.SanFrancisco1.Level3.net (4.68.124.206) 17 ms ge-7-0-0.gar1.SanFrancisco1.Level3.net (4.68.124.210) 17 ms 15 ms 6 4.78.242.18 (4.78.242.1  12 ms 14 ms 15 ms7 border1.ge1-1-bbnet1.sfo002.pnap.net (63.251.63.1) 64 ms 229 ms border1.ge2-1-bbnet2.sfo002.pnap.net (63.251.63.65) 45 ms 8 * * * 9 * * * 10 * * * 11 * * * 12 * * * 13 * * * 14 * * * 15 * * * 16 * * * You'll need to contact them in order to get that taken care of. If you need anything else, please let us know. Thanks! Brian |
|
Alondria LeFay
Registered User
Join date: 2 May 2003
Posts: 725
|
11-09-2005 05:47
Nicola's response seems to be the most promissing, if nothing else, they were talking about escalating it.
I am going to ship off another email to Dreamhost (utilizing the same old ticket along with Mark's traceroute with the administrative block: Hello Javier, We received this traceroute from Mark at Linden Lab: mark@janus ~]$ traceroute -I 66.33.213.101 traceroute to 66.33.213.101 (66.33.213.101), 30 hops max, 38 byte packets 1 border5.fe5-23.linden-1.sfo.pnap.net (66.150.245.252) 0.413 ms 0.324 ms 0.242 ms 2 core2.ae1-bbnet2.sfo002.pnap.net (63.251.63.85) 0.348 ms 0.380 ms 0.311 ms 3 4.78.242.17 (4.78.242.17) 0.874 ms 0.942 ms 0.838 ms 4 ge-5-0-0.mp2.SanFrancisco1.Level3.net (4.68.124.209) 0.967 ms 0.969 ms 0.901 ms 5 ae-0-0.bbr1.LosAngeles1.Level3.net (64.159.1.125) 13.224 ms 13.267 ms 13.212 ms 6 ae-11-53.car1.LosAngeles1.Level3.net (4.68.102.76) 13.269 ms ae-11-55.car1.LosAngeles1.Level3.net (4.68.102.140) 19.613 ms ae-11-53.car1.LosAngeles1.Level3.net (4.68.102.76) 13.334 ms 7 * * * 8 * ge1-L3.dreamhost.com (4.78.192.66) 13.442 ms !A * Note that at the last hop (ge1-L3.dreamhost.com) indicates an administrative block. Mark claims to have checked their network setup and there is no block on their end. We have also contacted their provider, Internap, and they looked into it and they are not blocking. Internap did suggest that Level 3 may be doing the blocking. Again, there is many cross customers between the two services and it has been a couple weeks since we could communicate between them. Most of the cross customers are relying on this communication for e-commerce items. Dreamhost has been a wonder host and highly regarded and recommended within the Second Life community however if we cannot get this resolved, we will be forced to go elsewhere, which none of us really wish to do. Mark can be reached at [email]mark@lindenlab.com[/email] however note that it will have to be sent from outside of Dreamhost's networks due to the problem at hand (the inability to send communication between the two). |
|
Sapphire Bombay
Avatar
Join date: 8 Oct 2003
Posts: 341
|
11-09-2005 06:06
Yet another response from Dreamhost support:
Hello, I've spoken with another user about this, and it seems that lindenlab.com's ISP is blocking traffic. Here's a copy of a traceroute to them: bash-2.05a# traceroute lindenlab.com traceroute to lindenlab.com (66.150.244.149), 30 hops max, 40 byte packets 1 gw-192-168-32-1.dreamhost.com (192.168.32.1) 1 ms 0 ms 0 ms 2 gw-66-33-192-1.dreamhost.com (66.33.192.1) 1 ms 1 ms 1 ms 3 gw-L3.dreamhost.com (4.78.192.65) 1 ms 1 ms 1 ms 4 ae-1-56.bbr2.LosAngeles1.Level3.net (4.68.102.161) 1 ms ae-1-52.bbr2.LosAngeles1.Level3.net (4.68.102.33) 10 ms ae-1-54.bbr2.LosAngeles1.Level3.net (4.68.102.97) 1 ms 5 as-0-0.mp2.SanFrancisco1.Level3.net (64.159.0.217) 14 ms so-3-0-0.mp1.SanFrancisco1.Level3.net (209.247.8.89) 76 ms as-0-0.mp2.SanFrancisco1.Level3.net (64.159.0.217) 13 ms 6 ge-7-0-0.gar1.SanFrancisco1.Level3.net (4.68.124.210) 13 ms ge-6-0-0.gar1.SanFrancisco1.Level3.net (4.68.124.206) 13 ms ge-7-0-0.gar1.SanFrancisco1.Level3.net (4.68.124.210) 13 ms 7 4.78.242.18 (4.78.242.1 14 ms 14 ms 14 ms8 border1.ge2-1-bbnet2.sfo002.pnap.net (63.251.63.65) 14 ms 14 ms border1.ge1-1-bbnet1.sfo002.pnap.net (63.251.63.1) 14 ms 9 * * * 10 * * * 11 * * * 12 Notice that it stops at their ISP, pnap.net? We have no control over that, sorry about that. If you need anything else, please let us know. Thanks! Brian _____________________
Avatar: A temporary manifestation or aspect of a continuing entity.
|
|
Eggy Lippmann
Wiktator
Join date: 1 May 2003
Posts: 7,939
|
11-09-2005 06:19
Why is nobody trying to contact level 3?
_____________________
|
|
Krazzora Zaftig
Do you have my marbles?
Join date: 20 Aug 2005
Posts: 649
|
11-09-2005 11:31
Why is nobody trying to contact level 3? cause Level3 may not talk to us, they MIGHT talk to LL, and they will definatly speak with DreamHost but DH is still ind enial of the issue. |
