Second Life Forums Archive - So what is it we're thanking LL for?

Sierra Divine

CEO of URBAN FLAVA

Join date: 4 Dec 2004

Posts: 187

11-10-2005 10:28

*sits an waits 4 the better part* maybe i'll see that b4 the new year

Cocoanut Koala

Coco's Cottages

Join date: 7 Feb 2005

Posts: 7,903

11-10-2005 11:03

From: Sierra Divine

ummm if i don't expect it to be worse than what they had before .... then wouldn't that mean it should be better?

Yes, I expected it to be better. I don't not expect some problems. But I expect it to be better, else they would have been better off not doing the update.

coco

_____________________

VALENTINE BOUTIQUE
at Coco's Cottages

http://slurl.com/secondlife/Rosieri/85/166/87

Joseph Proudfoot

Proud Tsalagi

Join date: 2 Sep 2004

Posts: 234

11-10-2005 14:15

From: Moopf Murray

You're treating them like they're not a company. You're talking about them like we, as customers, have to have this part of our brain thinking that we can't tell them that they're not up to scratch, in case it puts them off. Sorry, but no.

They charge high amounts of money for a service. For the past 2 weeks they have not delivered that service adequately to a large part of the population. They need to understand that that's not acceptable. If they don't, then as I said earlier, when competition arrives, Linden Lab will be gone quicker than a ferret up a trouser leg (probably a very British saying, sorry).

Of course I'd like them to be happy in what they do, but the bottom line is delivery to the customer. That comes first, not after. if they don't think that way, they will be gone, either sooner or later.

EDIT: By the way, only by telling a child that they're being naughty, does the child ever realise that they have to change their ways. To use your analogy.

Ok, haven't read past this post, but I believe you're missing the point. No where in anything that this person said is there anything about only praising them. Yes, you SHOULD tell them when somethings wrong. However, toss 'em a cookie when they get it right.

Only focusing on the negative is detrimental, IMHO.

Peace,
Joseph

_____________________

If you truly love someone, love them enough to let them go.

I will miss you.

Which wolf are we feeding today?

"Crime is a smudge on the face of our world, and I, my friend, I am the wet nap of justice!!" Something the Tick should have said.

"I had the right to remain silent, I just didn't have the ability" Ron White

Ricky Zamboni

Private citizen

Join date: 4 Jun 2004

Posts: 1,080

11-10-2005 14:42

From: Joseph Proudfoot

Ok, haven't read past this post, but I believe you're missing the point. No where in anything that this person said is there anything about only praising them. Yes, you SHOULD tell them when somethings wrong. However, toss 'em a cookie when they get it right.

Only focusing on the negative is detrimental, IMHO.

Peace,
Joseph

Their customers toss them hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of cookies every month and it still hasn't helped them perform to an acceptable standard.

Stan Pomeray

Starchy Sturgess

Join date: 14 Sep 2005

Posts: 205

11-10-2005 14:55

From: Moopf Murray

Of course I'd like them to be happy in what they do, but the bottom line is delivery to the customer. That comes first, not after. if they don't think that way, they will be gone, either sooner or later.

A very good point, and one that very few people seem to understand or be willing to accept.

At the end of the day, Linden Labs is a commercial enterprise, and it is a ridiculous concept that any of its customer base should in any way be "grateful" for anything they do, much less the solution of a problem they caused by their own mediocre quality procedures.

They satisfy customers - they ultimately grow. They piss customers off - they ultimately fail.

The very concept that your business can grow and succeed on the basis of your customers feeling sorry for all the hard work you put in while you deliver 2nd rate goods is puerile nonsense.

Joseph Proudfoot

Proud Tsalagi

Join date: 2 Sep 2004

Posts: 234

11-10-2005 15:12

From: Ricky Zamboni

Their customers toss them hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of cookies every month and it still hasn't helped them perform to an acceptable standard.

Oh, so I suppose everything you've ever done in your life is absolutely 100% perfect? No, that's not a flame. The people at Linden Labs are human (insofar as I know). Sure, there're gonna be hiccups. If this "platform" is inadequate, then my sincere regrets that you feel that way.

I, for one, love this world we're in. I'm not here to make money, become a mega-lindenaire or the like. I come here to relax, chat with friends, and quite frankly, to have fun.

Maybe I'm wrong, or maybe, just maybe, I'm right. Either way, it's your opinion that matters to you, not mine.

Peace,
Joseph

_____________________

If you truly love someone, love them enough to let them go.

I will miss you.

Which wolf are we feeding today?

"Crime is a smudge on the face of our world, and I, my friend, I am the wet nap of justice!!" Something the Tick should have said.

"I had the right to remain silent, I just didn't have the ability" Ron White

Ricky Zamboni

Private citizen

Join date: 4 Jun 2004

Posts: 1,080

11-10-2005 20:20

From: Joseph Proudfoot

Oh, so I suppose everything you've ever done in your life is absolutely 100% perfect? No, that's not a flame. The people at Linden Labs are human (insofar as I know). Sure, there're gonna be hiccups. If this "platform" is inadequate, then my sincere regrets that you feel that way.

I, for one, love this world we're in. I'm not here to make money, become a mega-lindenaire or the like. I come here to relax, chat with friends, and quite frankly, to have fun.

100% perfect? Of course not. However, I also don't have a staff employed to make sure what I produce *is* perfect. And customers paying me $400,000 per month for a service that *should* be reliable. The problems that have (a) persisted for several releases, and (b) been introduced with every point release are more than hiccups. They point to fundamental flaws in the development process and top-down management issues at LL.

Until LL can provide significantly better stability and response to customer issues, SL will remain at the stage of "toy" rather than the "platform" they want to call it.

Martin Magpie

Catherine Cotton

Join date: 13 Nov 2004

Posts: 1,826

11-11-2005 01:04

intentional bumping on the 40 yard line *whistle blows* HUT HUT HUT!

_____________________

Moopf Murray

Moopfmerising

Join date: 7 Jan 2004

Posts: 2,448

11-11-2005 01:31

From: Joseph Proudfoot

Oh, so I suppose everything you've ever done in your life is absolutely 100% perfect? No, that's not a flame. The people at Linden Labs are human (insofar as I know). Sure, there're gonna be hiccups. If this "platform" is inadequate, then my sincere regrets that you feel that way.

It's always much easier to discredit somebody's opinion if you take their view to an extreme that's out of context, isn't it. I doubt that anybody who has a problem with the way SL is being developed and tested would even come close to expecting everything to be 100% perfect. It's not difficult to see that that's totally unreasonable, and I'll certainly distance myself from that. But we're not even close to 100% and, in the time I've been here, I've seen the quality steadily decline. That's worrying.

From: Joseph Proudfoot

I, for one, love this world we're in. I'm not here to make money, become a mega-lindenaire or the like. I come here to relax, chat with friends, and quite frankly, to have fun.

I love it and so I hate to see it being treated so shoddily by the developers. Because I like SL I continue to pay LL money for it, if I didn't I wouldn't. But, just because I pay my money, does not mean that I think everything is peachy, because in my view it's far from peachy.

From: Joseph Proudfoot

Maybe I'm wrong, or maybe, just maybe, I'm right. Either way, it's your opinion that matters to you, not mine.

Actually diversity of opinions is what makes the world go round. Although I may disagree with people, it's always nice hearing opinions and, many times, it alters my view as well.

_____________________

Einsman Schlegel

Disenchanted Fool

Join date: 11 Jun 2003

Posts: 1,461

11-11-2005 05:43

I honestly think its funny how people can tend to appreciate a kind of business that ignores the customers requests to become a better environment for the rest of them. What people tend to forget:

1. We're OUT OF BETA: Which means, given being in here for longer than 2 years, I would had expected them to at least PERFECT their deployment of patches and updates. I have yet that to be seen.

2. We're not paying them to be lazy: We have a population of over 80k now, and yet the company still does NOT have an adequate number of people to help others in need to give each of us an equal chance at finding out what we want out of this.

Where as people new to this may seem to want to 'kiss up' I'm certainly not going to do such a thing. They've had plenty of time, my patience is wearing thin.

_____________________

Martin Magpie

Catherine Cotton

Join date: 13 Nov 2004

Posts: 1,826

11-11-2005 05:55

From: Einsman Schlegel

I honestly think its funny how people can tend to appreciate a kind of business that ignores the customers requests to become a better environment for the rest of them. What people tend to forget:

1. We're OUT OF BETA: Which means, given being in here for longer than 2 years, I would had expected them to at least PERFECT their deployment of patches and updates. I have yet that to be seen.

2. We're not paying them to be lazy: We have a population of over 80k now, and yet the company still does NOT have an adequate number of people to help others in need to give each of us an equal chance at finding out what we want out of this.

Where as people new to this may seem to want to 'kiss up' I'm certainly not going to do such a thing. They've had plenty of time, my patience is wearing thin.

I agree 100%. The newer folks don't realize how long this has been going on. I for the life of me do not understand why they cannot schedule daily or weekly maintance. Shut it down for 3 hours a week, entirly, and work on the bugs. That in my opinion would be a hell of a lot nicer than limping along and patching everytime someone decides its time to crash the grid. I said it last week and I will say it again this week. "I'm not entirly sure that the left hand knows what the right hand is doing at LL anymore".

_____________________

Margaret Mfume

I.C.

Join date: 30 Dec 2004

Posts: 2,492

11-11-2005 06:06

From: Joseph Proudfoot

Oh, so I suppose everything you've ever done in your life is absolutely 100% perfect? No, that's not a flame. The people at Linden Labs are human (insofar as I know). Sure, there're gonna be hiccups. If this "platform" is inadequate, then my sincere regrets that you feel that way.

I, for one, love this world we're in. I'm not here to make money, become a mega-lindenaire or the like. I come here to relax, chat with friends, and quite frankly, to have fun.

Maybe I'm wrong, or maybe, just maybe, I'm right. Either way, it's your opinion that matters to you, not mine.

Peace,
Joseph

Maybe talking about wrong and right is irrelevant. Love? Whatever that means. Never having to say your sorry?

It truly is possible to be multi dimensional. One can enjoy some things and not others. Identification of problems is the first step towards resolving them. For the most part, you don't waste your time trying to improve or resolve issues with something you don't enjoy or want to utilize. This isn't being negative; negative people leave. They try it, don't find it to their liking, and leave.

The defenders of the dream take on an almost cultish devotion, so defensive against what should be a normal part of growth and develpoment: critical analysis. Sometimes I wonder if I missed the koolaid when I came in.

_____________________

hush

Pendari Lorentz

Senior Member

Join date: 5 Sep 2003

Posts: 4,372

11-11-2005 09:30

From: FlipperPA Peregrine

I laud LL and its employees for taking on a very risky venture for our enjoyment and dreams, and trying to create what's coming to be the coolest piece of software ever made with a tiny development team. When I heard how many people worked at LL, I was absolutely shocked; I had imagined a tech team (between dev, Q.A. and so forth) of several hundred, let alone cust serv and marketing. 8 mil in venture capital doesn't really go all that far when you're talking tech salaries, and I think they're doing the best they can with the resources they can; I'm constantly amazed at what they *do* pull off with the resources they have. I also think they have incredibly smart and dedicated employees.

Let's not forget that LL is really still a startup. I think the child growing into a mature adult analogy *is* valid for most startups. There will always be bumps in the road, especially since they're building something that has never been realized before...and yes, they are still trying to impress their V.C. investors with growth numbers, and the market as a whole. This is a necessary evil.

Does the week or so after each major point release annoy me too? Sure. Buts its known as growing pains, and I've seen the same thing happen with Microsoft's releases, FOS releases, and so forth. How many service packs and patches has M$ released over the years? How many times have I had to patch/upgrade my free, open-source apps, and Linux as a whole? The mind boggles.

I'm sure everyone on this thread has never had a situation where their code worked great in development environments, then had bugs when released to production...right?

All the procedures, policies and testing in the world still don't cover every angle possible.

Regards,

-Flip

Great post Flip!! My feelings exactly!!

_____________________

*hugs everyone*

Ricky Zamboni

Private citizen

Join date: 4 Jun 2004

Posts: 1,080

11-11-2005 13:35

From: Malachi Petunia

The only thing about SL that is marginally innovative was a the core concept of streaming 3-space entities to a light client.

Gridded computing, fast 3-d rendering, IM, persistent MMOGs, etc. were all well established technologies; indeed, were they not, SL would not have been able to be produced.

There are a few things that are novel about SL: a) their megalomanaical belief that they have done something unprecedented and fundamentally irreproducible, b) their steadfast devotion to a beta codebase in the face of all rationality, and c) their desultory treatment of their customers.

Could it be done better by someone else? Absolutely. I'll even be so cocky as to say I could do so. Then why the hell am I not? Given the state of IP law in this country and the manifest conduct and deportment of the head of LL, I don't relish spending the next 10 years in court trying to get SL's superior replacement out the door past the inevitable injunctions.

I wholeheartedly agree.

So what is it we're thanking LL for?
Sierra Divine CEO of URBAN FLAVA Join date: 4 Dec 2004 Posts: 187	11-10-2005 10:28 sits an waits 4 the better part maybe i'll see that b4 the new year
Cocoanut Koala Coco's Cottages Join date: 7 Feb 2005 Posts: 7,903	11-10-2005 11:03 From: Sierra Divine ummm if i don't expect it to be worse than what they had before .... then wouldn't that mean it should be better? Yes, I expected it to be better. I don't not expect some problems. But I expect it to be better, else they would have been better off not doing the update. coco _____________________ VALENTINE BOUTIQUE at Coco's Cottages http://slurl.com/secondlife/Rosieri/85/166/87
Joseph Proudfoot Proud Tsalagi Join date: 2 Sep 2004 Posts: 234	11-10-2005 14:15 From: Moopf Murray You're treating them like they're not a company. You're talking about them like we, as customers, have to have this part of our brain thinking that we can't tell them that they're not up to scratch, in case it puts them off. Sorry, but no. They charge high amounts of money for a service. For the past 2 weeks they have not delivered that service adequately to a large part of the population. They need to understand that that's not acceptable. If they don't, then as I said earlier, when competition arrives, Linden Lab will be gone quicker than a ferret up a trouser leg (probably a very British saying, sorry). Of course I'd like them to be happy in what they do, but the bottom line is delivery to the customer. That comes first, not after. if they don't think that way, they will be gone, either sooner or later. EDIT: By the way, only by telling a child that they're being naughty, does the child ever realise that they have to change their ways. To use your analogy. Ok, haven't read past this post, but I believe you're missing the point. No where in anything that this person said is there anything about only praising them. Yes, you SHOULD tell them when somethings wrong. However, toss 'em a cookie when they get it right. Only focusing on the negative is detrimental, IMHO. Peace, Joseph _____________________ If you truly love someone, love them enough to let them go. I will miss you. Which wolf are we feeding today? "Crime is a smudge on the face of our world, and I, my friend, I am the wet nap of justice!!" Something the Tick should have said. "I had the right to remain silent, I just didn't have the ability" Ron White
Ricky Zamboni Private citizen Join date: 4 Jun 2004 Posts: 1,080	11-10-2005 14:42 From: Joseph Proudfoot Ok, haven't read past this post, but I believe you're missing the point. No where in anything that this person said is there anything about only praising them. Yes, you SHOULD tell them when somethings wrong. However, toss 'em a cookie when they get it right. Only focusing on the negative is detrimental, IMHO. Peace, Joseph Their customers toss them hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of cookies every month and it still hasn't helped them perform to an acceptable standard.
Stan Pomeray Starchy Sturgess Join date: 14 Sep 2005 Posts: 205	11-10-2005 14:55 From: Moopf Murray Of course I'd like them to be happy in what they do, but the bottom line is delivery to the customer. That comes first, not after. if they don't think that way, they will be gone, either sooner or later. A very good point, and one that very few people seem to understand or be willing to accept. At the end of the day, Linden Labs is a commercial enterprise, and it is a ridiculous concept that any of its customer base should in any way be "grateful" for anything they do, much less the solution of a problem they caused by their own mediocre quality procedures. They satisfy customers - they ultimately grow. They piss customers off - they ultimately fail. The very concept that your business can grow and succeed on the basis of your customers feeling sorry for all the hard work you put in while you deliver 2nd rate goods is puerile nonsense.
Joseph Proudfoot Proud Tsalagi Join date: 2 Sep 2004 Posts: 234	11-10-2005 15:12 From: Ricky Zamboni Their customers toss them hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of cookies every month and it still hasn't helped them perform to an acceptable standard. Oh, so I suppose everything you've ever done in your life is absolutely 100% perfect? No, that's not a flame. The people at Linden Labs are human (insofar as I know). Sure, there're gonna be hiccups. If this "platform" is inadequate, then my sincere regrets that you feel that way. I, for one, love this world we're in. I'm not here to make money, become a mega-lindenaire or the like. I come here to relax, chat with friends, and quite frankly, to have fun. Maybe I'm wrong, or maybe, just maybe, I'm right. Either way, it's your opinion that matters to you, not mine. Peace, Joseph _____________________ If you truly love someone, love them enough to let them go. I will miss you. Which wolf are we feeding today? "Crime is a smudge on the face of our world, and I, my friend, I am the wet nap of justice!!" Something the Tick should have said. "I had the right to remain silent, I just didn't have the ability" Ron White
Ricky Zamboni Private citizen Join date: 4 Jun 2004 Posts: 1,080	11-10-2005 20:20 From: Joseph Proudfoot Oh, so I suppose everything you've ever done in your life is absolutely 100% perfect? No, that's not a flame. The people at Linden Labs are human (insofar as I know). Sure, there're gonna be hiccups. If this "platform" is inadequate, then my sincere regrets that you feel that way. I, for one, love this world we're in. I'm not here to make money, become a mega-lindenaire or the like. I come here to relax, chat with friends, and quite frankly, to have fun. 100% perfect? Of course not. However, I also don't have a staff employed to make sure what I produce is perfect. And customers paying me $400,000 per month for a service that should be reliable. The problems that have (a) persisted for several releases, and (b) been introduced with every point release are more than hiccups. They point to fundamental flaws in the development process and top-down management issues at LL. Until LL can provide significantly better stability and response to customer issues, SL will remain at the stage of "toy" rather than the "platform" they want to call it.
Martin Magpie Catherine Cotton Join date: 13 Nov 2004 Posts: 1,826	11-11-2005 01:04 intentional bumping on the 40 yard line whistle blows HUT HUT HUT! _____________________
Moopf Murray Moopfmerising Join date: 7 Jan 2004 Posts: 2,448	11-11-2005 01:31 From: Joseph Proudfoot Oh, so I suppose everything you've ever done in your life is absolutely 100% perfect? No, that's not a flame. The people at Linden Labs are human (insofar as I know). Sure, there're gonna be hiccups. If this "platform" is inadequate, then my sincere regrets that you feel that way. It's always much easier to discredit somebody's opinion if you take their view to an extreme that's out of context, isn't it. I doubt that anybody who has a problem with the way SL is being developed and tested would even come close to expecting everything to be 100% perfect. It's not difficult to see that that's totally unreasonable, and I'll certainly distance myself from that. But we're not even close to 100% and, in the time I've been here, I've seen the quality steadily decline. That's worrying. From: Joseph Proudfoot I, for one, love this world we're in. I'm not here to make money, become a mega-lindenaire or the like. I come here to relax, chat with friends, and quite frankly, to have fun. I love it and so I hate to see it being treated so shoddily by the developers. Because I like SL I continue to pay LL money for it, if I didn't I wouldn't. But, just because I pay my money, does not mean that I think everything is peachy, because in my view it's far from peachy. From: Joseph Proudfoot Maybe I'm wrong, or maybe, just maybe, I'm right. Either way, it's your opinion that matters to you, not mine. Actually diversity of opinions is what makes the world go round. Although I may disagree with people, it's always nice hearing opinions and, many times, it alters my view as well. _____________________
Einsman Schlegel Disenchanted Fool Join date: 11 Jun 2003 Posts: 1,461	11-11-2005 05:43 I honestly think its funny how people can tend to appreciate a kind of business that ignores the customers requests to become a better environment for the rest of them. What people tend to forget: 1. We're OUT OF BETA: Which means, given being in here for longer than 2 years, I would had expected them to at least PERFECT their deployment of patches and updates. I have yet that to be seen. 2. We're not paying them to be lazy: We have a population of over 80k now, and yet the company still does NOT have an adequate number of people to help others in need to give each of us an equal chance at finding out what we want out of this. Where as people new to this may seem to want to 'kiss up' I'm certainly not going to do such a thing. They've had plenty of time, my patience is wearing thin. _____________________
Martin Magpie Catherine Cotton Join date: 13 Nov 2004 Posts: 1,826	11-11-2005 05:55 From: Einsman Schlegel I honestly think its funny how people can tend to appreciate a kind of business that ignores the customers requests to become a better environment for the rest of them. What people tend to forget: 1. We're OUT OF BETA: Which means, given being in here for longer than 2 years, I would had expected them to at least PERFECT their deployment of patches and updates. I have yet that to be seen. 2. We're not paying them to be lazy: We have a population of over 80k now, and yet the company still does NOT have an adequate number of people to help others in need to give each of us an equal chance at finding out what we want out of this. Where as people new to this may seem to want to 'kiss up' I'm certainly not going to do such a thing. They've had plenty of time, my patience is wearing thin. I agree 100%. The newer folks don't realize how long this has been going on. I for the life of me do not understand why they cannot schedule daily or weekly maintance. Shut it down for 3 hours a week, entirly, and work on the bugs. That in my opinion would be a hell of a lot nicer than limping along and patching everytime someone decides its time to crash the grid. I said it last week and I will say it again this week. "I'm not entirly sure that the left hand knows what the right hand is doing at LL anymore". _____________________
Margaret Mfume I.C. Join date: 30 Dec 2004 Posts: 2,492	11-11-2005 06:06 From: Joseph Proudfoot Oh, so I suppose everything you've ever done in your life is absolutely 100% perfect? No, that's not a flame. The people at Linden Labs are human (insofar as I know). Sure, there're gonna be hiccups. If this "platform" is inadequate, then my sincere regrets that you feel that way. I, for one, love this world we're in. I'm not here to make money, become a mega-lindenaire or the like. I come here to relax, chat with friends, and quite frankly, to have fun. Maybe I'm wrong, or maybe, just maybe, I'm right. Either way, it's your opinion that matters to you, not mine. Peace, Joseph Maybe talking about wrong and right is irrelevant. Love? Whatever that means. Never having to say your sorry? It truly is possible to be multi dimensional. One can enjoy some things and not others. Identification of problems is the first step towards resolving them. For the most part, you don't waste your time trying to improve or resolve issues with something you don't enjoy or want to utilize. This isn't being negative; negative people leave. They try it, don't find it to their liking, and leave. The defenders of the dream take on an almost cultish devotion, so defensive against what should be a normal part of growth and develpoment: critical analysis. Sometimes I wonder if I missed the koolaid when I came in. _____________________ hush
Pendari Lorentz Senior Member Join date: 5 Sep 2003 Posts: 4,372	11-11-2005 09:30 From: FlipperPA Peregrine I laud LL and its employees for taking on a very risky venture for our enjoyment and dreams, and trying to create what's coming to be the coolest piece of software ever made with a tiny development team. When I heard how many people worked at LL, I was absolutely shocked; I had imagined a tech team (between dev, Q.A. and so forth) of several hundred, let alone cust serv and marketing. 8 mil in venture capital doesn't really go all that far when you're talking tech salaries, and I think they're doing the best they can with the resources they can; I'm constantly amazed at what they do pull off with the resources they have. I also think they have incredibly smart and dedicated employees. Let's not forget that LL is really still a startup. I think the child growing into a mature adult analogy is valid for most startups. There will always be bumps in the road, especially since they're building something that has never been realized before...and yes, they are still trying to impress their V.C. investors with growth numbers, and the market as a whole. This is a necessary evil. Does the week or so after each major point release annoy me too? Sure. Buts its known as growing pains, and I've seen the same thing happen with Microsoft's releases, FOS releases, and so forth. How many service packs and patches has M$ released over the years? How many times have I had to patch/upgrade my free, open-source apps, and Linux as a whole? The mind boggles. I'm sure everyone on this thread has never had a situation where their code worked great in development environments, then had bugs when released to production...right? All the procedures, policies and testing in the world still don't cover every angle possible. Regards, -Flip Great post Flip!! My feelings exactly!! _____________________ hugs everyone
Ricky Zamboni Private citizen Join date: 4 Jun 2004 Posts: 1,080	11-11-2005 13:35 From: Malachi Petunia The only thing about SL that is marginally innovative was a the core concept of streaming 3-space entities to a light client. Gridded computing, fast 3-d rendering, IM, persistent MMOGs, etc. were all well established technologies; indeed, were they not, SL would not have been able to be produced. There are a few things that are novel about SL: a) their megalomanaical belief that they have done something unprecedented and fundamentally irreproducible, b) their steadfast devotion to a beta codebase in the face of all rationality, and c) their desultory treatment of their customers. Could it be done better by someone else? Absolutely. I'll even be so cocky as to say I could do so. Then why the hell am I not? Given the state of IP law in this country and the manifest conduct and deportment of the head of LL, I don't relish spending the next 10 years in court trying to get SL's superior replacement out the door past the inevitable injunctions. I wholeheartedly agree.

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So what is it we're thanking LL for?