So what is it we're thanking LL for?

Perhaps I'm missing something here...maybe someone can tell me what I'm missing, cuz apparently I'm missing something.


Theoretically this new patch is supposed to somehow improve fps, a fix other things that broke that were working perfectly fine before 1.7. Oh, and fix the shadows on one's feet.

Theoretically.

However, I can't say that I can tell the difference. My fps is still between 0 and 1.0, unless I turn off practically every graphical option in preferences. I've also had to lower my draw distance to little more than the end of my fingertips, and particles so low that I could count them individually.

So I must be missing something here. What is it we're supposed to thank LL for? I suppose I could thank them for fixed foot shadows - oh but wait, I can't see them unless I turn on shadows. Then again, I could see them easily, during my 0.6fps. They'll be showing on my screen for seconds at a time.


- Newfie

I am afraid they can't fix your computer... maybe it's time to upgrade?
I can go anywhere in SL and be lag free... unless of course the sim is full of avatars with a billion attacchments..

What shall I upgrade to, a rocket-powered engine with gold-plated nuclear core? I make a point of upgrading every few months. Speed was more than fine as of 1.6.

Perhaps what needs upgrading is their software quality control process.

I have been disgruntled with the hell of the last 2 weeks, but be fair Newfie, this update has only been around two hours lol

Agreed there - I'm mostly waiting patiently, and crossing my fingers that it's mostly network shakedown causing things. I'll be more than happy to thank the Lindens if/when they get the problems worked out.

Maybe having to put up with molasses for a frame rate for the last two weeks is getting old


- Newfie

Well, I was seeing textures on things much faster this afternoon, but there were only 300 people in game at that point.

I'll check it out again in a little while.

coco

Why be all thankfull for 2 weeks of hell and them suddenly getting it right again, when they should of done in the first place? I just do not get it not matter how much I think about it.

You're celebrating mediocrity people. You can't expect them to take the issues seriously and do it right first time, or as close as damn it, if you give them so much slack.

Woh lol. I am not celebrating, I haven't even been in world yet hehe. At the same time tho, I think 2 hrs is a little soon to be knocking this update in particular. Yeh 2 weeks sux, and I have made my opinions clear on that already, but this was directed at this particular update, not everything post 1.7.

Sorry Hiro, didn't mean it at you exactly Bugger I just don't understand why the Lindens should be lauded for finally getting it maybe close to right after 2 weeks.

EDIT: Maybe an OK, you fucked up once more, now let's never see it again. That I could like with.

Yeh I agree, but are you surprised? People are fickle and have short memories.

I'm suprised because people don't see the bigger picture. The only thing that remotely would keep LL on the game is pressure from the masses. Why? Because they live in a comfort zone where there is no competition for their place what so ever. So, forgiving them theirlackadasical sins of poor development and QA, and thanking them when they finally get it right, just leads them further down that path. Which means when competition comes (which it will eventually) they're a sitting duck.

I don't want that. I don't want to see a new "SL" pop up and think "Wow, that actually works, first time, these people know what they're doing". I'd quite like that to be here.

newfie, please post your computer stats.

i have experienced a lot of improvement in fps.

There's a balance that needs to be achieved. On one hand, they do need to feel pressure from their customers so that they know what level of performance is expected of them in order to stay in business.

On the other hand, if they don't receive any kind of outside praise for the insane amount of work they're putting in, they will become demoralized and start losing that precious connection they (miraculously, at times) maintain with their customer base. That's not exactly good for business, either.

Running a company is like raising a child. Provide the child solely with rewards, and they will become spoiled and complacent. Provide the child solely with punishment, and they will become psychologically damaged and cold.

Well said

You're treating them like they're not a company. You're talking about them like we, as customers, have to have this part of our brain thinking that we can't tell them that they're not up to scratch, in case it puts them off. Sorry, but no.

They charge high amounts of money for a service. For the past 2 weeks they have not delivered that service adequately to a large part of the population. They need to understand that that's not acceptable. If they don't, then as I said earlier, when competition arrives, Linden Lab will be gone quicker than a ferret up a trouser leg (probably a very British saying, sorry).

Of course I'd like them to be happy in what they do, but the bottom line is delivery to the customer. That comes first, not after. if they don't think that way, they will be gone, either sooner or later.

EDIT: By the way, only by telling a child that they're being naughty, does the child ever realise that they have to change their ways. To use your analogy.

That's all well and good, except for one thing: LL isn't a child that needs positive reinforcement to grow up to be a well-rounded adult. LL is a corporation that charges the membership a fee for their services. That's their reward system, and that's their basis for morale. If they want thank-you's and attaboys, then I'll be happy to give it to them - providing they stop charging me a monthly fee.

I work in the very line of business that LL is in, namely in this case, software development. One's reward in this line of business is not thank yous and attaboys, that stuff comes from one's manager and via performance reviews. But the customers are neither obligated nor should they be giving out praise for paying a high fee in exchange for low quality. If they wanna get their attaboys, then they can get it the old fashioned corporate way - by convincing the customer base that they're worth spending the money on.

- Newfie

I would call the immediate freakout that accompanies every upgrade to be impatient. Perhaps after two weeks, being satisfied with a lack of outrage would be the balance you're looking for.

I used to work for a company that was a monopoly in the industry. No competition, no need to come up with things quickly. But ... they knew that the customer's satisfaction was priority. They knew that without the customer they would be nothing. And if they became nothing, the employees would have nothing either ... because they would no longer be needed. So in actuality, I believe it would truly benefit both the customers AND employees if things weren't taken so "laid back".

As a customer, we have the consumer right to be satisfied with our purchases. As we all know, if we're not, we find it elsewhere. Unfortunately, this is not the case with LL as there is no elsewhere. So we as the customer, need to keep that "bee in the bonnet" and file any reports or complaints. If we're paying for something, shouldn't it work right? And yes while it's understandable that not everyone's game is working as they would like it to, it's rather rude (for lack of a better word) to tell someone upgrade your PC. I recently received a brand new PC, with all requirements plus more for this game and still have problems playing it. So what would the suggestion be for that? Sure I can hear people saying now, "then just stop playing the game." But why should I, because I'm upset with the 1.7 I should just stop playing? or ... Should I issue reports and complaints so that LL knows it's "just not happening and the customer's are not satisfied"?

As an employee of LL, not only should you already feel it's your responsibility to make sure the customer is satisfied ... but, if we leave and sales drop, where does that leave you? (lay offs are brutal)

Eventually, there will be competition for a platform such as SL. When that does happen, I can only hope that LL is prepared for it. And by prepared, I mean that they have improved issues to make customers satisfied to feel like "yes we have to still maintain and improve SL, but our customers are happy and we will continue to make them happy."

I believe you missed the part where they said "this may not resolve all of the issues".

Also, you can see foot shadows perfectly well without having shadows on, more's the pity.

Are you sure about that? Cause now I'm missing something...

Well, my game is better, but still not as good as before 1.7.

I still keep seeing my underpants for a while before my skirt shows up!

I hope they aren't done with fixing all this.

coco

I think you may have misunderstood me. The customers have every right to criticize the company on its methods, and I respect that. It's necessary, both as a motivating factor and as a channel for exchanging ideas on how to improve. However, you and Newfie seem to be of the mindset that nobody should be thanking them for their efforts and commitment during this time. I just don't see why this should be the case.


They already understand that that's unacceptable, and everything I read gives me the impression that they're working their tails off to rectify the situation. How is squelching all positive feedback going to be of any further benefit?


I absolutely agree. But don't forget that LL has a very special relationship with its users -- one you don't typically see in MMOG companies. They interact with users all the time on an informal level, building personal relationships and opening themselves to input. If all this were to cease and the only things exchanged were money, the product, and harsh criticismsm, LL would become a very different company indeed.


Again, I never said I was against accusing the "child" of being "naughty" (which, in this case, they already know perfectly well by now). That doesn't mean the "parent" should stop being supportive and encouraging until the "child" improves, however.

Remember that LL is made up of human beings. Human beings work best when they know others are rooting for them. It makes them believe in themselves, and as has been mentioned before in these forums, believing in yourself is a key factor to success.

I find it difficult to thank them for their efforts and commitment during this time, when if their efforts and commitment were acceptable, the last 2 weeks would not have happened. But OK, thank you Lindens for finally getting somewhere towards sorting your mess out!



We've heard them say so many times that things are unacceptable, yet nothing changes and the same things happen time and time again. How is giving them "props" benefiting? All I can see is it reinforces that they can get away with this lacklustre approach and people will cut them a whole heap of slack. That's not a good mentality for them to get into.



OK, this is the place the argument really falls down for me. I don't have a special relationship with LL, and have never wanted one. They are a company I pay money to, I don't socialise with them, they're not my friends, I don't know them on any level past people who work for a company I pay for a service.



I'm being supportive by still paying them money every month. If I'd lost all thoughts of being supportive to them I wouldn't be paying that money. But paying the money does not mean that I'm saying that the current status quo is acceptable. I actually like SL, I like what you can do, and I don't want to see it go down the drain.

Which is fine, really ... for you. But you seem to think everybody should agree with you.

That's where your argument falls down for ME. I have no need or desire for Yet Another Faceless Corporation in my life. Got plenty as it is. I'd rather deal with people, not a black box where I put money in and get some sanitized, bland, can't-take-any-risks-or-innovate-because-we'll-endanger-our-marketshare product out the other end.

No, which is why I said for ME.



You may have to get used to this as LL will end up having to be more faceless as the world expands. Already you have a whole host of Lindens who, in their profiles, tell you not to bug them but to use the email support etc. That will increase, because it's the only way they'll be able to manage. The world was much smaller when I first joined, and Lindens were more visible in-world. That's not the case any more. In fact, I can't remember the last time I saw one or spoke to one.

However being faceless does not necessarily lead to "sanitized, bland, can't-take-any-risks-or-innovate-because-we'll-endanger-our-marketshare product". The two are different.