Is this really Linden Lab?

the IRS gives out information about other companies?

Nice try, little boy... but you asked for the information and then I offered to sell it to you. Maybe you should revisit Marketing 101 while you're reviewing reading comprehension.

According to "Clickable Culture" LL is yet to turn a profit:

#'Second Life' Land Baron Cashing Out?
written by Tony Walsh | posted on December 6, 2005 @ 9:35 am
tagged Business Groups Internet Place Second Life Technology

The superbly-spicy Second Life Herald reports that the virtual world of Second Life may be facing economic turmoil as a result of a controversial decision by developer Linden Lab to remove its "telehubs" (the virtual-world equivalent of a train station or bus terminal), thus potentially harming the value of land surrounding the hubs. Anshe Chung, Second Life's most profitable businessperson (rumoured to make six figures annually from virtual land deals) has reportedly begun to cash out, exchanging her play-money (Linden Dollars) for real dollars. This has lead to fears that a devaluation of Linden Dollars could follow, affecting the potential profits of many resident members of Second Life's business community.

Chung is reportedly eyeing other virtual worlds for alternate investment opportunities, telling the Herald that she has opened up a currency exchange for IMVU, a 3D chatspace apparently aiming at Second Life's customer base. Were Chung to leave Second Life entirely, she would doubtless need to recoup her real-world investment (tens if not hundreds of thousands of dollars) by selling off her Linden Dollars completely. Such a move could not only completely destroy the currency market, but result in a painful income loss for Linden Lab, whose platform has yet to turn a profit.

http://www.secretlair.com/index.php?/clickableculture/C90/

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Also seen on Clickable Culture as it also related to this thread:

'Second Life' Island eBay Auction: Strings Attached
written by Tony Walsh | posted on December 10, 2005 @ 10:38 am
tagged Business Groups Internet Marketing On the Screen Other Space Place Second Life Software Technology Virtual Reality

Linden Lab, makers of the virtual world Second Life, seems to be seeking the same kind of publicity competing environment Project Entropia has had over high-priced digital land sales. The company is auctioning off an entire virtual island for a buy-out price of $10,000 USD--bidding opened yesterday at $1, and closes December 19, 2005. In an unprecedented move, Linden Lab is including in the auction significant perks and benefits not normally available to Second Life member residents. These include:

* 120 Hours of design and building development to build your dream island "valued at $6,000."
* A year of paid maintenance fees "valued at $2340."
* 20 Basic Second Life memberships "valued at $228."
* 20 Premium Second Life memberships for your friends and family to join you "valued at $3620."


Although the auction details don't mention it, island owners are going to be hit with substantial fees after their first year. It's not so much "own your own Dream Island" as "rent it." Subsequent years of island ownership, based on current pricing, will cost owners $195 USD monthly; Premium account fees will cost up to $9.95 monthly for each of the 20 people signed up. Furthermore, the dollar-value of Linden Lab's 120 hours of development time is questionable: All Second Life resident members (including land owners) are capable of developing content at no actual cost (all that's required is time and talent). Labour in Linden Lab's virtual world, therefore, is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it--and Linden Lab has a history of soliciting resident services for a fee paid in "Linden Dollars"--play-money the company can "manage, regulate, control, modify and/or eliminate" as it sees fit. At least now that Linden Lab has priced development time at $50 per hour, resident content-creators will know where to set the bar when the company next posts a call-out for developers.

http://www.secretlair.com/index.php?/clickableculture/C90/

Well, here is some free analysis:

LL is making ~300K per month before wages.

http://www.simpli.biz/colocation.php

Full 52U rack: $700/month .. that's about 14$ per U.

No doubt LL could negotiate that down to 10$ / month or less per sim because they're stuffing it all on one blade.

So, all their cost is in Ops and bandwidth. Let's ignore ops for a moment, then the question is bandwidth?

Really interesting question. My thoughts are that they can't be hurting that much otherwise they'd do more / smarter caching.

So, I might revise my estimate to around 50$ per sim in overhead. There is about, what, 1500 sims? So, 200 in profit per sim*1500 ~= 300K per month.

Given the press and the potential of this platform, I have to say things should be OK, unless they are cutting Anshe or Rathe or someone a sweetheart deal such that they don't have to pay for all those sims they own.

Plus, given that Valve/Keneva/Multiverse/etc are trying to move into this space, I'd be pretty hesitant about giving up.

Everyone wants to be where SL is, as far as I can see.

I've been chatting with people at another major MMO company (top 3), for example, and they're migrating more towards what SL is doing - free, streaming and somewhat dynamic metaverse.

Things are about to explode .. anyways, if they do decide to call it quits, the time to do it would be in the summer after they've seen how well a christmas rush of new computers impacts the user base.

The best time for advanced software like SL is january - march, when people start trying to really use their new computers. My thoughts are, if things aren't fundamentally better by next april, then we should worry.

Until then, though, we all just have to make the platform grow.
measure which new concepts most improve the products and incorporate them into the game in future patches."

Given how much Apple has flipflopped over the years on so many issues this is actually funny.

Oh really ppl should put up with being belittled in your opinion. Good to know. WRONG but good to know.

I hope your investigations into LL are more accurate than your assumptions about my gender.


And thanks to blaze and Martin, who are at least able to back up their opinions with facts that they aren't charging people for. And without being consistantly, pedantically insultive to boot!

If Anshe left, LL could claim ownership of all her islands and redirect the tier fees Anshe's charging the existing owners/renters. Since Anshe's making a profit above her fees to LL now, it stands to reason that LL would make the same profit if they claimed all her customers. What it would do is mean they'd have to hire people to do zoning in the way she now does, and that they'd lose the security they get from being able to sell entire sims.

And unless she spitefully cashed out her L$ for less than the market value, the currency market wouldn't be so far affected, surely? After all, all those L$ are backed.

I do think it's quite worrying when I'm visiting ANSHECHUNG.COM and seeing that Anshe is now advertising against LL. (Her front page reads "Turn your back on Governer Linden!" Talk about biting the hand..

I think you need to read that a bit more closely.

But, yeah, it's quite the gambit.

Anshe's just encouraging people to move to her Dreamland continent with this (where Governor Anshe is in charge) and not really biting the hand that feeds her at all. It's still all running on LL servers, no? Or am I as thick as I sometimes believe?

Yumi I didn't want to post out of context. The main point of my post however was the following "Linden Lab, whose platform has yet to turn a profit."

If I were Anshe, I would be pissed off too. TBH. After all it's RL dollars she has invested in a business development plan. That LL has encouraged us all to do. They want SL to be viewed as a development platform. Now they thwart her efforts. Yes I find that especially odd.

At what cost to the subscriber base do we allow LL to turn their much needed profit. Do we turn our backs on our own for the good of the Company or do we stand beside each other and do the decent thing when one of us is being screwed over. I know where I am standing. Although I have not always agreed with Anshe or her tactics she played her business plan well and I admire the fact that she did so in spite of what ppl have said. Me included.

I think it's wrong to just sit by and watch things like the GOM being swallowed up (yeah yeah I heard the arguments and they still don’t wash with me) , I think its wrong to allow the infonet systems where valuable real estate once stood. I think it's wrong that they keep choosing the same development team for each and every large media savvy PR trick they pull out of their shorts.

That’s my short list, trust me you don’t want the long one. I have been around since beta and this is CRAP.

Mar

Oooh, that's what I was going to say. Thanks for saying it before me. So I guess I should just add "ditto".

/me hugs Cory

How many years did it take Amazon.com to turn a profit?

So well that she stands to lose a substantial amount of money over a policy decision that most saw coming a long time ago and must resort to threats of currency devaluation in order to be saved by LL, who she is actively marketing product against?

I agree with your first part, but I'm not big on "I told you so". I would just be happy for the Lindens and the rest of us if we are still here next year and still thriving.

Googling isn't research, duh.

As for insults, if you can't take it, you really shouldn't start dishing it out, tootz. (shrug)

As for the rest, a friend in PM reminds me of the adage about pearls before swine. They're right.

Exactly. And as a privately held company, the fact that they don't show a profit doesn't mean there isn't money there. Heavy reinvestment and profit taking can skew the bottom line. There is an entire cash flow story behind that bottom line. Without that story, any speculation is fruitless.

Ra Ra!

Do you have to keep insulting people here? I want to take your criticisms seriously, but its hard to with the hateful rhetoric. And your rhetoric has been consistently hotter than that which has targetted you.

Martin, you have been so annoyed with SL for so long, since I started actually, I am genuinely curious why you still log in at all? I don't mean any disrespect by this in the least, but I am really baffled by the fact that you are still paying a monthly bill to LL. Why?

I'm curious as what might possibly be labeled as pearls here.

I think my analysis is a lot more than just Googling, it also brings into 5 years of operations experience as well.

Some how, I have a hard time believing that Cienna has experience or data that would be more useful.

This is something I am always curious about with quite a few people.

You'd have to pay her to find out, blaze. I guess we're supposed to take her ill-tempered, insultive word for it.

Mining available information sources isn't doing research?