Rethink InforNet plans

I agree with Cristiano.

Do not put Infonet at the telehubs. Or the Welcome Areas, or on other official Linden land.

coco

Ooo. More fun with the scripts.

It doesn't support user sessions properly. So if you're using an InfoNet terminal, any random griefer can alt-look it over your shoulder and hammer the "close" button for you.

But then, it doesn't even reduce the button count in its dialogs to omit empty entries...

(In case you're wondering why I'm making a fuss about this, this is quite a big snub to scripters who're trying their hardest to make networked objects ecological and low-lag.)

Edit: Ok, this one just blows my mind.. every one of those 16 linked buttons? It contains a seperate instance of a 100% alpha texture. (sigh)

thanks for that response cris. makes sense.

and yes to reiterate, squagmire isn't being criticized here or "gnat", but rather we are questioning a linden lab decision

You know what I think? I think I'm gonna go buy myself a listing on Infonet.

You raised a point I had not even considered. What is the impact of these terminals on the surrounding land?

lol kim, that's like... deep

I paid 25000-30000 US$ for high traffic telehub land to get exposure to customers and the "eyeballs". Through rent I have not even been able earn back one fraction of that investment yet, not to mention to profit. I planned for at least 12-18 months. Other telehub land owners also invested much money in hopes to get access to consumers.

Now Linden Lab let some other business that did not invest even 1 L$ in telehub land control what people see, what people read and allow them charge rent on that new "InfoNet" system? Sorry, but explain to me: People paid more than 100000 US$ buying land in 50 or so telehub sims (me alone 30000 US$) for exposure to consumers. Linden Lab take this away from us without any compensation whatsoever. Then next day they give control of some "InfoNet" system to some residents who invested what? So some people who invest nothing are now allowed to charge people for access to the consumer eyeballs? And after invest 30000 US$ now I am supposed to suck up to THEM and PAY THEM for have my ads listed there?

Please, somebody explain this to me. I am really lost at the logic of what is go on in Second Life now. Linden Lab installs the system "telehub", sells access to its traffic/visits for more than 100000 US$. After take that money they remove the system "telehub" and install new system "InfoNet" and let somebody else control it and let THEM charge retailers for customer exposure. I am in awe. I am lost. I really dunno what to say

For once Anshe, I have to say I agree with you. It makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

I'm with Anshe, too. This InfoNet thing stinks.

My god any position that cristiano and prokofy agree on should be taken very very seriously indeed.

As it happens many valid points about this issue have been made all around. My own two cents might not count for much, but I'll try not to be too repetitive.

1. I hated telehubs witha passion. they were traffic jams on my way to anywhere. I felt that they did nothing to contribute towards the growth of a community. I never saw people stopping to talk at telehubs, nor did I see people wander from th telehungs inot the near by businesses. If anythign they put me off telehub businesses because I hated running inot a damned invisible wall of a telemall when i wanted to get somewhere, and I hated waited three minutes for the damned thing to rez.

Now LL is replacing telehubs with something even more useless: infohubs. How are these any different from the FIND feature? Frankly I would like to have seen more effort put inot improving the find feature before telehubs vanished. LL's reasoning behand removal of telehubs was not simply because Jake said to remove telehubs, LL wanted to make SL: easier for new residents.

So how do info hubs accomplish this? A new user will be stuck trying to sort out how to use the find feature and the info hub, and judging by the current quality of InfoNet, will find neither usefull. really LL has just replaced one useless thing with another even more useless thing.

2. Part of SL that I really like is that it is pioneering virtual community. Telehubs were intended as an experiement in community building infra structure. They failed, true, but that doesn't mean some other uses could not be found that also facilitate community building. I for one would like to have seen some veriosn of the forums brought in world, so the discussions about SL could occur in SL. Whatever the ultimate uses for the land, LL seems to have squandered an opportunity to continue its pioneering efforts in favor of some back room filler deal with a player run business.

3. Is LL now going to be in the habit of shopping out infra structure building to resident players who fall in favorably with LL?

Yes we must be fair.

Thus....

No clothes allowed unless they are the LL made freebies

No vehciles or objects

No houses

No Notecards.

Look.... has anyone figured out that just about ALL the content on Help Island is user made?

How is it picked or allowed? By what is best for new players.

I read (and have been featured in) Katt's paper but I hardly think that a full PDF about every issue on SL is the best way to greet someone.

If the infonet is not great for newbies... ditch it... and for that reason alone. Helping hands is an alternative... so if we have that will it be "favoratism".

Favortism towards WHAT exactly? Some of the stuff out there is absolute junk and no it will not be in Help Island for that reason... cause they dont' "favor" it. Tough.

If any of my stuff ends up there I'd hope it's becuase it's good quality and suitable for the "purpose" which is for introducing noobs the very first baby steps of SL.

I'd love to be more positive about this but all I hear is...

*cries.. whaaa whaaa someone's content is allowed so put mine up too!

We aren'ttalking about help island and freebie packs to newbies. We are talking about comunity infrastructure and the utility of two find systems, as well as how public land is utilized.

It's exactly the same issue, and now that the advantage is going to someone else suddenly people are singing a different tune. We should be patting Squagmire on the back for the stroke of good fortune, not complaining that someone else's success isn't our own. Don't like it? Make a competing service that people prefer over infonet. All that needs to happen is for LL to make whatever information they distribute available to anyone else who wants to publish it in a way that allows everyone who so desires to distribute it in the same timely manner.

sorry blueman, but does someone have a position on help island where they charge other residents for advertising on their help content?


"not complaining that someone else's success isn't our own"

Chip, now that's one thing i'm definitely not doing. i'm not jealous, but I'm still questioning the decision.

This isn't about Help Island, it's about the WA and telehubs.

And even if InfoNet was picked because it is high quality (and at least in technical terms it doesn't seem to be that great) the problem is that infonet itself picks and allows content, not by what is best for new players or by anyone else, but by who pays the owner.

In otherwords, you can now advertise in the WA if you pay the correct person, and that person is not a Linden. Problem.

Let's see Chip, a for profit business that is being paid by Linden Lab as a customer is being given tier free access to all former telehub land to put in their terminals, which they charge to be in, with no ability for anyone else to put their terminals there for their various business pursuits. Oh yeah, you hit it on the head there Chip, it's the exact same thing as a free snapshot storage service on the web.

Remember Bel Muse's Second Look site? Did she freak out and demand equal time when Snapzilla was getting all the free advertising? I'm not sure anyone even uses it anymore because you offered a better service and were fortunate enough to have LL imprint it in the SL collective consciousness. Should everyone who wants to be allowed to advertise on Snapzilla for free because you got such a boost from LL? Whether the service you offer is free or not is completely beside the point.

LL is way off base on this issue and Anshe et al are right on.... makes no sense.

To totally and nearly arbitrarily obliterate an economic node on the system is way outside of good game improvement by LL. As in real life, when the 'government' comes in and begins to meddle in the free market system, awful things happen.

In my mind, LL should back way off of things that have negative economic impact to any notable population. We're not talking sink modification or game improvement with telehub removal, we're talking economic rape.

LL is looking more and more like a meddler in our business models and in my mind, it's very inappropriate and not what was advertised from the start. Once LL begins to mess with things beyond providing the system WE the members operate in and create in, they risk total loss of viable game interest. My message to LL is.... tread carefully. There are land mines in this and a few other areas you are contemplating walking in. Don't ruin a brilliant concept by meddling with our business models we are creating.

I've read and listened; still think information hubs throughout the grid readily identifiable on the map is a great idea. That it's been developed and will be maintained without diverting LL personnel from other work is a plus. I think Jesse said it best here, relative to Flipper'e efforts to sort out the event listings:

I hope Pathfinder's Picks, Infonet, the Helping H.A.N.D., a link to Flipper's alternative event listings site and any other developed package that anyone else invests the time and effort to generate gets placed there. There's certainly enough room at the telehubs for LL to sposor all kinds of resident efforts and the more information out there the better. Oh! Robin Sojourner's Texture Tutorial, too.; that'd be a definite plus.

It will be different to see traffic at telehub land because they've evolved into the useful community centers they were envisioned to become at their conception.

A fair point, but with one big difference: the main point of Snapzilla wasn't to provide paid advertising space. The main point of InfoNet is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nolan Nash I do think, however; that if there are going to be pay services on Linden land, selection for that privilege needs to be bid out, lotteried, or something along those lines.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chip Midnight Whatever information LL distributes through infonet should also be provided to anyone else who wants to publish it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cristiano Midnight Unless you are going to provide equal opportunity for all resident businesses to put information kiosks on Linden land, upon closer examination, it is completely unfair to the community at large that the InfoNet pay system is being sanctioned by Linden Lab.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Anshe Chung Please, somebody explain this to me. I am really lost at the logic of what is go on in Second Life now. Linden Lab installs the system "telehub", sells access to its traffic/visits for more than 100000 US$. After take that money they remove the system "telehub" and install new system "InfoNet" and let somebody else control it and let THEM charge retailers for customer exposure. I am in awe. I am lost. I really dunno what to say


Quote:
Originally Posted by Chip Midnight Whatever information LL distributes through infonet should also be provided to anyone else who wants to publish it.

=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=


I absolutely agree with the above statements. It’s decisions by LL like this one that really make me wonder how exactly SL is being run behind closed doors. LL do us all a favor and publish your new long term goals because they sure as hell are not the same goals you started off with. Be straight with ppl.

At the very least they will have a half a chance to know whether or not their investments of time and money in this metaverse will meet their long term goals. To pull the carpet out from under those who care the most about this product just sickens and amazes me.

“Come make profit” (2 months later) We have decided to run that IW business ourselves. “Come make profit” (2 months later) P2P the next greatest thing!! *disclaimer this is a smart arse remark not a fact: (Please see our ad in Infonet for more information …you too can advertize …for a fee)

Why is there always a catch 22 with LL?

Mar

I don't think this is true. As I recall, classified advertising wasn't part of the early infonet package, which seemed to start out as an educational tool only.

I don't know enough about infonet to know that paid advertising was the main point of it. It wouldn't matter to me either way. How is it any different than Cristiano rationalizing paid advertising on Snapzilla as a way to defray costs? Infonet is trying to defray costs also, and maybe even *gasp* profit. There's nothing wrong with either. The bottom line is that the only way LL is ever going to avoid these kinds of outcries is to never make use of, promote, or in any way involve themselves with resident provided services or products. Is that what people want? If so, fine, but it has to apply across the board.

I don't have to rationalize anything, Chip. They are not the same situation. Linden Lab grabbed onto my site to put pictures on their front page to promote themselves, not me. They did not pick me as a customer and license my technology. They piggybacked on stuff already being sent to my site. Here, they are choosing a customer business to put in all of the telehub land. Yumi's point is valid. Snapzilla is not an advertising service. Advertising did not even exist on Snapzilla anywhere close to the time where LInden Lab put a sideways link on the homepage to acknowledge what they were doing. The site has grown perfectly fine without them, through my own marketing, not theirs.

I am sure your profile in the newsletter and on the website has helped to sell your skins. In that case, you are not acitvely soliciting business from Linden Lab. They are not paying you to put your skin stores in all of the telehubs. These InfoNet hubs are businesses that are being put into all of the hubs. If they are going to provide this, they need to provide equal access for it. I actually fought for equal access for the front page as well - that is the entire reason the checkbox is there to let people send pictures wherever. I thought it was a shortsighted idea when LL implemented it that way then, and I think this idea is even worse.