Age Play should NOT be banned

Regardless of the content of the notecard, the notecard is SPAM. As such, it has annoyed me much more than age play would, as it has affected me directly - which age play doesn't. I won't AR someone for age play - they can do what they want. I will, however, AR someone for spamming... so I suggest that people take these notecards and shove them up their collective asses, thankyouverymuch.

Since I had to make a policy decision about what was allowed in my sims, I sought precedent.

Is there any real liability regarding simulated sex with a minor? I don't do it, but what if I condone or tolerate it in my sims - where do I stand with regard to the law?


Since I didn't know much about this sort of thing, I asked around. A friend who is "into" a lot of X-rated sorts of activities online directed me to a site called "Sociolotron" and their terms of service.

Sociolotron, as best as I can tell, is VERY extreme - you can be raped, killed, enslaved, given STD's, and all manner of other demeaning horrors.

Guess what is NOT allowed, even there. If you check section six of their terms of service, sure enough, they ban simulated sex with minors outright.

Note that they are a service provider for a game, and quite 'into' this sort of thing. Telling, isn't it?

So in the Caledon sims, pretending to be a kid is okay. Hey, people are 'kid' characters in lots of video games, if you think about it. It's not a big deal. But simulated sexual activities with a minor?

There is NO WAY I'm going to allow activities that even a site like Sociolotron bans outright.

How are you going to prevent them? Ban small-sized avatars?

I was a beta tester for Sociolotron, and it's not a kids game and they take every step to check a person's age out before allowing them into play that game. When I was a beta tester on it, you had to be 21 years of age to be able to in be considered to be a beta tester. There are drastic differences between that game and Second Life, plus there are no kid sims/avi's in that game, unless it's been changed since I played it. But I highly doubt that very much, with the content and type of roleplaying that does go on in that game, and everything you did mention, is very much apart of that game, including being raped by NPC's or other players against your will. Myself when I played never was raped, thankfully, but it's possible in that game. But then like I said, there are drastic difference between Sociolotron and Second Life.

--Ang

I'm sure it would of been a report on sight system.

As Posted on www.SL-FORUMS.com
http://sl-forums.com/viewtopic.php?t=364



Here is the thing, SLs modo is your world, your imgaination..

If they decide to ban age play, then what's next? They ban furries, or slaves, or sex all together? If they silence something that people do enjoy then they are going against that. People can be over the age of 18 and still roleplay. I have several friends that have adopted kids in SL...b/c it's a part of the game, it's a part of the family unit.

A while ago, a post was made about the every popular Grim Babies..sorta the SL version of an opposite prim baby and in an an evil funny maner. It's main goal is to be shaken and killed by either the owner..or a fellow Sl'er. Now..people wanted THOSE banned, but, if they had gone to that step...what else could get banned permanetly? Who are you to pass judgement on what is right or wrong in SL? It's their SL..if it doesn't directly affect you, then why is it a problem? I've made childrens furniture in game, and find the people who do age play to be very nice. I am a RL mother and treat them with the same respect I would my own child. Maybe they didn't have the kind of attention they needed growing up, or they want the love of a parent in game that they lack parents in RL....the list for age players is endless. Your world, Your imagination..not, your world and what other's think your imagination should be. I really hope that LL does see how BIG of an issue this will be and how a major upset will come with some of it's members. I'd love to look at the profiles of the people on that list and start a notecard of my own..banning things that they maybe enjoy. Why do people always need to picket something? Why can't they just leave it be??

-Addi

I haven't gotten a notecard! I want one, I want one!

And then I will stalk its creater dressed as an ass-fucking sheep. BWAHAHAAHAHA.

There you go.

Er, I didn't create it.

People have as much right to judge anyone as a 50 year old that pretends to be 7. Rather they have the authority to do a damn thing about it though is another thing. I've seen people petition things that by every ounce of common sense should tell them would fail. This is one of those cases. Do they have the right to make a petition about it? Sure. That's just how petitions are.

And if they are a furry? THEN WHAT?!

He's not a furry. His AV pic has him dressed in leather.

AS THE MANUFACTURE OF LEATHER IS CRUEL AND ILLEGAL TO COWS I MOVE THAT WE BAN ALL THOSE WHO WEAR LEATHER FROM SL AND END THIS DISGUSTING AND SICK REIGN OF FREAKS!

I'm happy to report that nobody I know was on the list of names I got.

I don't go snooping around in people's virtual homes. In fact, if you go to Caledon you may very well see child avatars.

However, if I see any simulated child sexual activity in the normal course of my day, there will be a brief IM warning, then a ban from my sims if it doesn't cease.

I'm not about judging people whatsoever.

What I think of such activities personally is a separate matter (and yes, I think it's disturbing). But I AM all about protecting Caledon as a good place, and keeping it liability-free.



Incidentally, I've banned casino-style gambling too. It's unlawful for me to be complicit and condone such, since I am a United States citizen. Online gambling is against state and federal law.

Using $L instead of USD is no excuse - poker chips aren't currency either. "But everyone else gets away with it!" simply doesn't cut it.

The Feds are not internet-stupid. They run sting operations all the time, and you better believe they have already heard of Second Life.

What side of the law will you be on?

Then ban sex in general as well. I've no interest in dressing as a child (or a furry) and even less interest in having sex at all in SL, but if a consentual adult wishes to do it with another consentual adult then it's not your place or mine to stop them.

LL has made it clear that they have no intention of "banning" or stopping this because they're of the same mind in this regard.

Knowing this about you, I don't intend to visit any of your sims in the future then. I have enough to deal with from the Moral Police in the real world with them trying to restrict me from having kids, getting married, donating blood and being treated as human without coming to SL and dealing with the same, however well-intentioned you think you are.

The irony is that whilst I am completely against a prohibition by LL on the matter, I am also completely in agreement with Desmond regarding its presence in my local environment. (Similarly with the gambling - I have nothing against people who wish to spend hours pumping Linden Dollars into machines, I just don't fancy the sim being bogged down and being shouted at by scripts; the issue of legal liability doesn't apply to me as a non-sim-owner and non-US-citizen, but that would be another issue if it did.)

I've gotten two of them and never sent one to you! So why you gotta always stalk me like that?

Cos I love you.

I was given this card as a request (they knew it was garbage but I was curious). The logic behind thier argument is laughable. I examined the profiles of the copy I was given, the maker of the card has an SL family with SL children. Thier SL children signed this, as well as several other child avatars. This I find ironic and amusing.

I find thier logic laugable because they use comparison to prove thier point by saying that if pedophila is illegal then age-play must be. This is like saying that torture is illegal so S&M must also be illegal. One is not the same as the other, one is marked as illegal by US laws (since US laws apply to SL) while the other is not (I don't have the link on hand showing clearly that pixel pornography is not illegal).

I an not unbiased with the topic (see the group I run), however just like with everything else in SL age-play can be avoided by those who do not wish to see it (and if your using a free roaming camera you don't have any right to complain when you look through a wall and find something distastefull).

I wish for everyone to have fun in SL in thier own way, but not force thier view on others at the same time.

I am unbiased, and it's not illegal. Only in cases where the pixels in question are a reasonable reproduction of a child that can be mistaken for one is it illegal. No one will mistake the shitty SL graphics and shitty SL animations for real child-fucking.

That's hawt too!

I'm not so sure about this above statement......there was a thread about 'CHILD AV SEX PLAY' that was posted, I believe in the Bulliten Board, a few weeks back. Some pictures were linked of some very disturbing images from an establishment in SL that advertised young boys and girls for sale for sex. One in particular was outrageous.

That thread disappeared in a matter of minutes, so apparently it was a possible embarrassment to LL. I highly doubt they don't care, I think they just haven't figured out what to do about it yet......and hopefully they do before the shit hits the fan, because I am sure that it could give them a huge blackeye.

I think Desmond has made an informed and intelligent decision on what to and to not allow on his sims and I commend him.

And BTW if anyone is interested in said pictures IM me in game. It would be pointless to link them here as the thread would then be closed. That tells me that LL is not apatheitic about this.

With that being said, I agree w/ the previous posters, if your playing a child just to be a child and do childlike things and it doesn't invlove sex in any way....more power to you.

It does beg an interesting point, however...

Agreed - it'd be pretty tough to mistake the pixels in SL for that of an actual child. Today.

But what about in 20-30 years? What will the state of graphics be then? I imagine this sort of debate will take on interesting new concerns if you can't distinguish an avatar from the real McCoy.

Just comparing the state of graphics from 20-30 years ago to today, I imagine graphics in the future will border on true VR. And bring with it some facinating ethical debates. Hopefully I'll still be around then to participate in them

Yeah, obviously it's possible to cross lines. Selling people for sex, slave prostitution, is not the same as two consentual adults having virtual cybersex while one pretends to be a teenager. I think we're all intelligent enough to see the difference between consentual, private sex and forced sale of "minors." I would be against selling anyone, even in SL; the Gor sims skeev me the fuck out. But that's why I don't go there. Because I'm capable of not liking something someone else does without having to turn it into a huge moral crusade when they're not doing it to me.

And while they're his sims and theoretically he can do what he wants, I wouldn't ever rent from anyone who's going to tell me what I can and can't put down beyond the ToS. I'm renting your land, not your Christian Coalition stamped values.



Oh I'm sure it's going to be crazy. My coworkers are fascinated by my time in SL and I've been explaining this very dumb debate to them and one remarked "Gosh, never would've thought I'd be giving thought to the ethics of pretend child sex when I had an atari."

Simulating consensual sex between adults is not against United States law.

As best as I can determine from the Sociolotron terms of service, simulated sex with a minor is unlawful, or at very least begging for a terrible precedent to be set.

I'm sure the Sociolotron lawyers have looked this subject over far more thoroughly than I ever could. You have profoundly missed my point. My bans are in place to protect me from legal liability.

It has ZERO to do with being well intentioned or otherwise.

And everything to do with protecting over ten thousand dollars in sims and tier reserves, and several hundred hours of time invested into my hobby here in Second Life. Both for me, and the hundreds of people that enjoy my sims.

minor user + minor avatar = Teen Grid

minor user + adult avatar = Restricted as for Teen Grid when it come to "sexual".

adult user + adult avatar = Restricted from Teen Grid when it come to "sexual".

adult user + minor avatar = Federal Bureau of Investigation, U.S. Customs Service, the U.S. Postal Inspection Service, and state and local law enforcement in Internet Crimes Against Children Task Force WILL takes you away when it come to "sexual".


I think you people are forgetting what laws we have in USA about minor and sexual related cases... they are real, FBI won't mind shoving you into a prison if you refused to obey.

http://www.ecpatusa.org/faq.asp Start reading, don't be a retard... and yes, I do blame you for not listening your government class you took in high school if you didn't know anything about child pornography. It's no excuse!


IT'S NO EXCUSE!

The US law, as it stands now, states that digital representations of nude children engaging in sex are not pornography unless the children digitized are reasonably mistaken for real ones.

Having cybersex with someone on AOL who tells you he's a kid, yeah, that's crossing the line. But even then I don't think it's illegal until you arrange to meet in person. I can't really remember.

Having cybersex with some adult pretending to be a kid is not.