The reason I got in is that I let the login time out. I had crashed it over and over (SORRY I DID NOT KNOW I WAS BEING BAD!). From now on, I willl just wait and let it do whatever it needs to do.
THANK YOU forum ppl for letting me know that!
Welcome to the Second Life Forums Archive
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Ten Points in Favor of Abandoning Second Life |
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Enjah Mysterio
Walks in Mysterious Ways
Join date: 14 Feb 2004
Posts: 25
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12-31-2004 13:46
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". . .it is the living myth that explains the world at a non-rational, non-verbal, or preverbal level, making existence sacred and informing the believer that he/she is not alone in the universe. Myth and mystery inform the heart that a person belongs and has a part in an eternal drama." -- William J. Ventimiglia |
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Enjah Mysterio
Walks in Mysterious Ways
Join date: 14 Feb 2004
Posts: 25
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Oh No Osp!
12-31-2004 13:48
OH dear Osprey, I hope you get in soon!
/me blushes with joy at getting in, then cringes with horror at the thought of you outside! _____________________
". . .it is the living myth that explains the world at a non-rational, non-verbal, or preverbal level, making existence sacred and informing the believer that he/she is not alone in the universe. Myth and mystery inform the heart that a person belongs and has a part in an eternal drama." -- William J. Ventimiglia |
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Koose DeGroot
That Chopper Guy
Join date: 17 Sep 2004
Posts: 159
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12-31-2004 14:11
Im sure it wont happen, but I can hope that LL will read this thread, and re-think their plan of action. Big money always changes the direction of a well thought plan.
I have many friends that own private sims, and I was, myself, going to purchase one this February. But after seeing private sims running at 23 FPS because they are old and worn out, and the grief it causes the owners, then this post topping it off, I think I will just hold off and see what the next six months bring. I too, am missing things in my inventory from the server assest issue, and I cannt get a straight answer from anyone about what to do. In my business background, to leave a customer hanging, with no answer whatsoever, is the absolute LAST thing you want to do. Even if they told me there was nothing they could do, just to move on, would be better than nothing at all ... Then at least I would know to remove the stuff from my INV that "isnt really there". I personally think they should spend more time, and effort refining what they have now, and working on public relations BEFORE they enter a childrens market. Most of the people playing in this world now are adults, with understanding, and patience. I can tell you this, as a businessman, and a parent, missing inventory from a childs character, will be EXACTLY like "taking candy from a baby." |
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Merwan Marker
Booring...
Join date: 28 Jan 2004
Posts: 4,706
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12-31-2004 14:25
--- It did more than twenty years ago, when the web was ARPANET, owned, operated, used, and envisioned by R&D sector of the U.S. defense industry. Sorry. The web didn't predate ARPANET - the first web site went onLine in the Summer of 1991. Tim Berners-Lee from Geneva, Switzerland is created with creating the World Wide Web. He did this when he was a researcher at the European High-Energy Particle Physics lab CERN. It was develped as a com tool for the high energy physics community. See - Tim & CERT  _____________________
Don't Worry, Be Happy - Meher Baba
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Sweetcherry Whiplash
Second Life Resident
Join date: 10 Nov 2004
Posts: 27
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hello ...
12-31-2004 14:28
is second life down again.. or is it my computer???
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Elex Dusk
Bunneh
Join date: 19 Oct 2004
Posts: 800
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King Phil and the Lindens end 2004 on a sour note
12-31-2004 15:00
A customer doesn't need ten (10) reasons to cancel their account. They need only one (1) reason to cancel their account. A two-day (potentially longer) service disruption is certainly a good reason. As a player with just under 90-days logged to my avatar I simply don't have the same level of emotional attachment to my "doll" and its house as some of the other players have with their's.
Putting the current service outage aside, my general understanding of the Lindens at this point is that they provide empty reassurances about the status of the game grid and even emptier apologies. Over the course of the past (just under) 90-days my user experience has gotten progressively worse. Sims are laggier. I've lost inventory items during "upgrades." Teleporters are frequently out of service. Outages are more frequent. The game, quite literally, thanks to its staff, is failing to meet the expectations it set within its own advertising. I see no obligation to continue to pay for a service that isn't being provided nor should you or anyone else. |
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Dallas Moreau
Registered User
Join date: 7 Dec 2004
Posts: 146
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12-31-2004 15:11
The web didn't predate ARPANET - the first web site went onLine in the Summer of 1991. Tim Berners-Lee from Geneva, Switzerland is created with creating the World Wide Web. He did this when he was a researcher at the European High-Energy Particle Physics lab CERN. It was develped as a com tool for the high energy physics community. See - Tim & CERT Uh, never said the web predated ARPANET. Just the opposite. Net telecommunications protocols for computers based on packet switching were first envisioned by ARPA researchers in 1963 and contracted for development in 1968. The first net was created between the campuses of UCLA, Stanford, UC-Santa Barbara, and the University of Utah in 1969, so that physicists, chemists, and electrical engineers who were doing defense-related research could communicate. By the 1970s ARPANET was global and connected universities, corporations, and government facilities by a new protocol named TCP/IP. The U.S. military's MILNET was separated from ARPANET in 1980, at which point the Xerox PARCS laboratory was given a DoD contract to develop the system into something usuable for the civilian sector, to compliment the National Science Foundation's CSNET initiative. PARCS and other organizations eventually developed NSFNET, based on 56kbps phone lines and routers built by a small company connected with Stanford University, named Cisco Systems. NSFNET was centered at the Supercomputer Center of the University of Illinois, and had a graphical component that was navigated by a GUI that later inspired web browser software. Thus ARPANET evolved into NSFNET, which in turn provided the backbone structure and design for the Internet and the Web. Good place to go for the history is livinginternet.com _____________________
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Merwan Marker
Booring...
Join date: 28 Jan 2004
Posts: 4,706
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12-31-2004 15:16
Oh guess i didn't understand your wording - "...when the web was ARPANET..."
"It did more than twenty years ago, when the web was ARPANET, owned, operated, used, and envisioned by R&D sector of the U.S. defense industry. Sorry." _____________________
Don't Worry, Be Happy - Meher Baba
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Neal Nomad
Here & Now (now & then)
Join date: 20 Jul 2003
Posts: 50
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Dont quit
12-31-2004 15:26
Schwan...stay...put your energy into making some changes.
I think the trouble began, or at least could be seen coming, when all the new sims started coming on |
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Dallas Moreau
Registered User
Join date: 7 Dec 2004
Posts: 146
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12-31-2004 15:29
When there was no web, but there was ARPANET, and ARPANET was what the web would eventually be and then supercede.... The web was ARPANET, maybe?
 Never mind, I concede the point.  _____________________
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Martin Magpie
Catherine Cotton
Join date: 13 Nov 2004
Posts: 1,826
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12-31-2004 15:32
Clearly there are many, many problems interfering with your SL experience. We're trying to knock them off, one at a time. A couple things Schwanson mentioned that I want to put to rest -- First the teen grid won't be opened until we're completely confident that it will have no impact on the main service -- in development, hardware resources, and staff. The education program is limited to 3 classes per semester, of 25 students each. The professors are required to sign an ethics agreement (more on that separately) with respect to any research plans they have, and also to clear their plan with the ethics committee at their university. Most of these classes are only in SL for a few weeks; occasionally one stays for a full semester. I don't think the education program will negatively impact SL, but if you have more questions, please let me know. Schwanson, I hope you don't decide to leave. You've made a significant, on-going contribution and we would miss you very much. We are very committed to making SL the experience that you desire. It is clearly what we want as well. Compensation for his troubles would be a good start. |
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fluffy Pennyfeather
Chromamorphic
Join date: 10 Dec 2004
Posts: 9
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12-31-2004 15:36
I have been working with computers for the past 25 years, and I have seen a lot of things, including how environments change drastically when EVEN AS AN END USER I added a component in line with other components. Imagine trying to keep multiple servers happy and having ppl who routinely do not even EMPTY THEIR TRASH!!!!! Crap, you mean we have to empty our trash ourselves? But... but that's prole work... _____________________
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Alan Edison
Ty Zvezda
Join date: 28 Jun 2004
Posts: 420
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12-31-2004 15:47
Compensation for his troubles would be a good start. LL isn't obligated to compensate any outages. They state this in their TOS/User Agreement. As you probably already have gathered from all my other posts, I think this is a lousy statement. What difference will an extra day to someones account make to your profits? All other online games i know of credit accounts with extra days if their services are interupted. And to elaborate on one of Schwans reasons... Webspace costs $X per month... this gets you: an address (your island name) sometimes unlimited space (the prims on the land... of which there is a limit in SL) and sometimes unlimited bandwidth (well we all get that in SL) Im not up to power with web costs but i sure as hell know that hosting a website etc with those sorta stats is better value than what a private sim is in sl... LL say SL is to become like the new internet, well not if there are restraints and pricing like there is atm. _____________________
Ty Zvezda
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Alan Kiesler
Retired Resident
Join date: 29 Jun 2004
Posts: 354
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12-31-2004 16:11
My goodnes, I had not realized Schwan. I'd understand too if you wanted to bail (don't worry about the other sim you were discussing, I can make other arrangements). What you describe is insane, even for someone as patient as myself. If LL were one of the vendors I normally deal with, like Sun, they'd have heard an earful from me long ago.
Unfortunately I intend to stay as a link with the outside Uru/UU communities, as that is the niche I am making for myself. However that does not make me stop and drop tier to the standard 512, or perhaps even drop to Basic account. However, I don't think that it is easy to run an MMOVR (I do not consider this a game). I felt the same about There.com, and Uru Live, well ... you think SECOND LIFE has problems? This is only the beginning of this sort of reality, and I think we have to take that into consideration. It may not be BETA, but the ppl who designed and are running this VR are running into problems no one could have predicted. I have been working with computers for the past 25 years, and I have seen a lot of things, including how environments change drastically when EVEN AS AN END USER I added a component in line with other components. Imagine trying to keep multiple servers happy and having ppl who routinely do not even EMPTY THEIR TRASH!!!!! :wave: from another Uru Live player. I followed *that* game and its problems rather closely, as - like SL - I understood the underlying idea and liked it. However as a UNIX SysAdmin myself, I also understand that there are teething issues to be resolved. My line of work involves uptime along the line of 99.999%, if possible higher, even in the middle of environment upgrades. We have the advantage, however, of having someone (myself and others) available at night to fix things when systems are not actively in use. LL/SL does not have the option of taking sub-parts of the grid down - yet - and I hope they get it fast (I have ideas but they would probably take over half of that $8 Mil - take some time to implement too). From one of the Linden posts I saw (Phil et al please correct if needed), it appears that the co-lo may have lobbied for some sort of upgrade during the Thursday downtime. If that's what actually happened, I agree with LL that it was ill-advised and the co-lo will have much to answer for. BTW, has anyone noticed that the really bad system problems started after the move to that new datacenter? I think that co-lo may have a LOT to answer for... Phil, as a semi-24/7 hardware support person I can truly understand the headache going on over there. If possible please make sure an actual post-mortem is posted here after the grid is back and reasonably happy (or as much of one can be allowed). We could really use an explaination in this case. Even better, what will be done proactively to prevent again - and also looking into the other grievances posted above. _____________________
Timothy S. Kimball (RL) -- aka 'Alan Kiesler'
The Kind Healer -- http://sungak.net No ending is EVER written; Communities will continue on their own. |
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Dervish Feaver
Registered User
Join date: 21 Sep 2003
Posts: 25
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12-31-2004 18:02
i tend to disagree. i remain stunned by the fact that ll takes input from it's player base through a web-based forum rather than some sort of inworld system. auctions are conducted using the web as well. what is this collaborative, scriptable 3d software for if the company doesn't use it themselves? money is exchanged using 2d websites and, now, everybody is starting to shop on the web rather than browsing through inworld stores. what will this collaborative, scriptable 3d software be good for if the residents migrate away from it and don't actually use it anymore? C'est la vie. What good is Sears if I buy all my stuff from amazon.com? As fortune would have it, I still need a 3D world in order to use my spanky new claw hammer; no matter where it came from. Dervish |
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Martin Magpie
Catherine Cotton
Join date: 13 Nov 2004
Posts: 1,826
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12-31-2004 18:18
LL isn't obligated to compensate any outages. They state this in their TOS/User Agreement. As you probably already have gathered from all my other posts, I think this is a lousy statement. What difference will an extra day to someones account make to your profits? All other online games i know of credit accounts with extra days if their services are interupted. And to elaborate on one of Schwans reasons... Webspace costs $X per month... this gets you: an address (your island name) sometimes unlimited space (the prims on the land... of which there is a limit in SL) and sometimes unlimited bandwidth (well we all get that in SL) Im not up to power with web costs but i sure as hell know that hosting a website etc with those sorta stats is better value than what a private sim is in sl... LL say SL is to become like the new internet, well not if there are restraints and pricing like there is atm. ll billed his CC 45 times he stated that he pays $400.00 per month that is $18,000 US he was billed. Compensation for this massive fuck up is in order. |
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Luna Galatea
mystical purr
Join date: 6 May 2004
Posts: 180
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12-31-2004 18:21
10. On top of all these issues Linden Lab has announced that they are now dividing their efforts and creating what amounts to a second program, catering to children without seeming care to the fact that the residents are fairly unanimous in the opinion that this world is still half baked. same thing to the adults. not just for kids, but its the same effect on adults. and even worse on adults when they have the added 'mature' elements of the game (not even gonna get into detail of some of the f-ed up things ppl do in this game) now dont you think this just rots their brains a little?? and to think, this was all created by the users. |
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Schwanson Schlegel
SL's Tokin' Villain
Join date: 15 Nov 2003
Posts: 2,721
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12-31-2004 18:38
I would like to thank everyone for their support in this matter.
I have no intentions of leaving Secondlife at this time. I love it and the people here too much. I had no intention of starting a "drama, I'm leaving" thread. That is not me. I was considering tiering down to a basic accout, and will do so if I do not get resolution and/or compensation to my primary issues. I am not doing this yet. After careful thought I have decided to proceed with all current business ventures in SL. I will review this decision frequently. I feel SL is truly on the verge of greatness if they can just pull this together. I want to be a part of that as it occurs. I would also like to encourage those of you who are considering leaving esp. because of this latest server issue, to reconsider. I would not blame you if you did, but this has never occured in the 14 months that I have been here. Let's see how this situation is resolved, we may end up with something better coming of this. My motto in SL has always been, "Go big or go home." Well folks, I ain't ready to go home yet. _____________________
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Schwanson Schlegel
SL's Tokin' Villain
Join date: 15 Nov 2003
Posts: 2,721
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12-31-2004 18:43
ll billed his CC 45 times he stated that he pays $400.00 per month that is $18,000 US he was billed. Compensation for this massive fuck up is in order. The error was not for my tier fee. It was for $69 they attempted to charge 42 times. In all fairness to LL in this matter, I was called as soon as it was found out the next afternoon, and they did arrange for minor compensation. While there were other issues which did not go to my liking, Colin was nothing but a gentleman. Thank you Colin. _____________________
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Nolan Nash
Frischer Frosch
Join date: 15 May 2003
Posts: 7,141
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12-31-2004 18:46
Happy New Year Schwan and I am sorry that you had to go through all this crap. You are an asset to this community and as others have stated, I would hate to see you leave.
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“Time's fun when you're having flies.” ~Kermit
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Darko Cellardoor
Cannabinoid Addict
Join date: 10 Nov 2003
Posts: 1,307
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12-31-2004 18:48
Scwhan I am sorry to hear of your recent problems. I am very happy to hear you are not leaving. You are a tremedous assest to the SL community and a hell of a good friend. My brother have the Happiest of New Year's. One Love Mr. Punani!
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Sensual Casanova
Spoiled Brat
Join date: 28 Feb 2004
Posts: 4,807
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12-31-2004 18:49
Hey Shwan I hope you decide not to quit...
I guess I don't need to DJ tonight huh? Don't see you or many others online  _____________________
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Darko Cellardoor
Cannabinoid Addict
Join date: 10 Nov 2003
Posts: 1,307
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12-31-2004 18:50
Nolan dude I was writing my post the same time you were. Haha they are remarkably similar. Brilliant!
Our gay minds think alike! _____________________
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Nolan Nash
Frischer Frosch
Join date: 15 May 2003
Posts: 7,141
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12-31-2004 18:51
Nolan dude I was writing my post the same time you were. Haha they are remarkably similar. Brilliant! Our gay minds think alike! Does this mean I get to touch your Mangina? LOL!  _____________________
“Time's fun when you're having flies.” ~Kermit
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Torley Linden
Enlightenment!
Join date: 15 Sep 2004
Posts: 16,530
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12-31-2004 18:52
Schwan, damnit...
if this was drama, it was a good kinda drama. THAT KINDA STUFF WOULD PISS ME OFF TOO, BIGTIME, IF I EVER WENT THROUGH IT! I can't speak from personal experience, but the fact you brought your problems and sorted them out on the table without coming off as rude or unhelpful and without attacking the Lindens only goes to add to what respect I already have for you. In addition to having crazy fun, I know you're multitiered to deal with the serious stuff when the time comes. Things like this have to be known and can't be hidden under the rug, so that Second Life can continue to improve. I was once given this wise advice by a special someone: "I go to sleep and wake up new." HAPPY NEW YEAR, SCHWAN *hugs* _____________________
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