From Watermeloney to Corporate Lackey

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All in fun, yes. Deserved? To a degree - the rhetoric and ideas in that post were fairly silly, but the sincerity was apparent.

But "celebrities" in Second Life? You're out of your mind. Anyone who thinks of themselves as a celebrity deserves harsh and unremitting ridicule. With all due respect, fuck all celebrities, and fuck me, too, if I ever become one.

I still don't see there being a taboo on questioning TorLi.

Torley's relationship with language is much like mine. Her choice of vocabulary and phrasing matches up with what she hears or reads regularly, choosing not English per se but whatever sub- or super-set of English is being used around her. It's something I do a lot, and I've been mocked and dressed-down for it as well when I don't manage to adopt a more general use of language when I've left the environment that was using patois or jargon. As I understand it, it's very Asperger-y.

That is an exciting prospect, but given the blogs I have read for the past two years and the experience of having known him in-world (pre-Linden) I'm inclined to think otherwise. When he was jumping into a cyberpunk world, he picked up the vocabulary of it and applied it as a means to undersand and come to grips with that world. Now that he's jumping into this business world, he's just applying it as a means to understand and come to grips with the LL world. Of course he is trying to please the Man to some degree, that is what one is required to do when working, but I don't think he is being a sycophant or trying to produce doublespeak.

The misunderstanding comes, I think, because when he is in that world, he is in that world without the language barrier most of us would apply for the sake of an audience unfamiliar with those terms.

When he came to SL following the trail of cyberpunk culture and interacted with us, all was dandy because many of us in SL share the same vocabulary. Now that he is on the other side of the SL fence, he is exposed to (or otherwise seeking in order to understand in his unique way) the language of that world. The trouble is that he is still applying the same communication strategy that worked before (find new world, appropriate language and customs, and express them) to an audience that isn't on the same page. This is the same thing that happens when some scripters or coders try to teach people who have never been exposed to coding. The final nail in the confusion comes in that he really does want to share with people. He really does want people to understand. If you read his posts, you will find constant attempts to relate the process of things to the customer. But customers don't care (and sometimes rightfully so) about what has been done or what needs to be done, only what is going to be delivered. On a person to person basis, his overexplanatory nature comes off as a delightfully quirky attempt to bond. On a professional to customer basis, the same strategy could be misinterpreted by the customer as him making excuses. Coupled with inappropriate syntax, it starts to seem like a willful attempt to mislead.

But that's not what I see, I see more of the same strategies applied to a new situation that is not necessarily appropriate for those strategies with confusion as the result and exciting drama as the metaresult.

I am not Torley and he didn't call himself a celebrity.

but...

Celebrity, like shit, happens.



Go back to sleep.

True, I do not know the specifics beyond what I've read. I haven't watched Torley's character over the years.

I can say, with some amount of experience and informed insight, that what I've read about and seen in the way Torley behaves in world and in writing, is consistent with socialising Asperger's individuals - to the extent that I can conceive of a wide quality of persona evolution that does not impeach the fact of autism in the subject. I don't know the 'profound' changes, because I don't have all the details.

I /am/ all for crossing taboos and grilling holy cows, preferably with tongues and briskets.

I just don't see why it's necessary to assert that she's /pretending/. If she is, she's done an apparently good job of it.

I will ruminate on what private information you have that you cannot make public.

Didn't think you were, don't think he does.

but...

You gave me a scenario and a statement to make. Only a self-conscious celebrity would avoid the opportunity.

Zzzzzzz.

Behold, our new antistar!

From your text I can see that you have observational data and a logical argument, that suggest Torley's writing is part of a technique for adapting to new cultures. It's well stated and it plays into the commonly believed notion that Torley is acting out of kindness.

However, I would state that his primary goal is to cary out corporate objectives even if that means harming the community as a whole. Thus when he presents these ultimately harmful objectives to us in the voice of our friend, the incongruity comes off as disingenuous. This has led to an erosion of trust on my part.

~Ulrika~

If what Philip says is so, then corporate objectives are descided opon by comittee, only more so (that odd "management by chaos and 'transpearancy' thing they have going on there). If Torley - being one of the community team folks - does honestly belive what she said, then (corporate-speak aside) is it really anything other than Torley acting out of kindness, and you just don't agree that the method will meet the goal?

you'd rather "Were closing the forums so FU!... " I sincerly doubt its torleys call to close the forums, so your attacking the messanger for trying to put it nicely.

Understandable. Even ignoring the subjectivity of "harm" where this platform is concerned, your feelings are validated by well worn adages about cake eating and people serving two masters. I can't say I agree, but I'm evil.

More importantly, can I reach 4000 posts by the time this forum dies? I wonder if my postcount can be transferred to SC.

It wouldn't be Torley's call to close the Forums. He is an employee not management.

While I'm not happy about these forums closing either, I will concede that the bit about how much work they are to manage is likely very true. I doubt it was the actual reason they've been closed, but I wouldn't blame people like Torley for possibly feeling some relief.



Oh you mean putting his job ahead of what you and some others may think of him? Imagine that, actually wanting to keep one's job rather than risk losing it to make sure the people who don't sign your paychecks are pleased with you.

I wasn't going to post in this thread, but it's starting to anger me. Just one post and I'm done.

When any ot you posting in this thread has done as much for Second Life as Torley (either as Torgesson or Linden), then and only then, you might just have a right to complain. Until then, just drop it, ok. With attitudes like this, it's no bloody wonder the forums are closing.

I was talking to one of the Lindens last night, and I said I was going to miss the forums. I take it back. After this thread, I'll be glad to see them gone! Well done folks, yet more things to destroy.

I don't like Torley bashing either. I'm not going to criticize you for that, but I am going to criticize your logic.

Consider the following:

When any one of you criticizing the government has done as much for our country as our leader, then and only then will you have a right to complain.

When any one of you criticizing our soldiers has fought as much for our country, then and only then will you have a right to complain.

When any one of you criticizing genetically modified crops has completed as much schooling as the scientists who developed it, then and only then will you have a right to complain.

I've no interest in bashing Torley, but you've got it the wrong way around. People are bashing Torley AFTER they found out the forums are closing. This thread is a symptom not a cause.

thats the stupidest thing I ever read.. your not fucking Children.

That would be against TOS.

What is? Saying I'm not attacking Torley or saying that people are pissed because the forums are closing?

Shame on some of you.

As far as I know, Torley has never done anything intentionally cruel or meanspirited. She's spent hours responding to our questions and requests. The few times I needed to speak to a Linden and messaged her, I always got a quick reply.

You may not like what's going on here. You may not like the wording in that message. Criticizing that is fine. But to attack her personally, well frankly, it sucks.

You wonder why the forums are closing? Look at this thread. We may feel like this place is our home. Heck, it was set up to be that way. But what have we done in our home? To use the parlance of this thread, we've shat all over the carpet. We've polluted the place with mean attacks dressed up to be witty posts. And the meanest posters, apparently, think that the nastier they are, the more clever they are.

Most posters in the forums don't do this, or try not to. Heck, we're not perfect. I know I've gone overboard sometimes. But it's the few who seem to revel in their cruelty that have really set the tone here recently.

If I ran a company and set aside a forum for customers' use, and saw that it had turned into this, then hell, I'd probably close it down too. And what the hell? Now you can spend all your time on a 3rd party forum being as childish and mean as you like with nary a moderator in sight. Have fun.

Mulch, you say this is a funeral? You're damned right. What you forgot to mention was that you helped murder the body.

I suffered from aspergers my entire life. The internet helps me to communicate in ways i have trouble with IRL since i don't have to talk or listen to several voices at once. Your post explains me right off the batt. I'm very lengthy in most my speaches and posts. I'm better with hands on then verbal. I still have those mental fears about conversation though. When someone says Hi to me i don't reply unless they tell me more. When i know why they wish to talk to me, then i reply.

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I always had good respect for Torley and i don't see her as a corprate lacky in any way except that she is working for a corperation. o.o I noticed she closed a topic about the forum distruction but i don't think we should jump to the conclusion shes against the community or something. O.o Shes been quite nice to us. One of the only few lindens that are infact.

Hitting the nail on the head Lorelei.

On Torley: She's never failed to address my concerns. We need more "corporate lackeys" of her caliber (and LL says they do too). I'm amazed at the amount of typed communication she actually puts out in spite of her condition (CTS).

as opposed to fixing the damn problems that pissed off the customers and addrssing their needs, right?

real sound bizness plan you got there.

it is much more detrimental to ignore your customer base when you rely on said customers to fill your world with interesting and unique content.

piss them off, what do you have left?



no

i did my best to prevent Torley from taking this bullet

Torley Linden has made her decision (and i do believe intentions were good, i cant see Torley as anything other than good)

Torley Torgelson was thrown under the bus by Linden Labs, the "mascot patsy" designed to take the fall

good intentions or not, Torley Torgelson has officially been sacrificed

the innocent blood has been spilt

no one who was touched by Torley wanted to see this happen

Linden Labs is destroying SL, and has laid a foundation for its destruction

the point of no return has been reached

this is the SL rapture

maybe I am a horseman brought forth to savage the land

or maybe I am a saviour

or maybe im some fucked up troll who likes drama

but i was gone for 4 months... are you honestly saying my 8-10 days of posting here since april killed Torley?

did i kill the forums?

did i build a house of cards on an unstable and obsolete table?

perhaps i did rain fire down upon this foresaken land

i am lamenting the loss of purity... of innocence... of idealogy ...

I called on Torley to be true to himself

i asked Torley to be aware of the ramifications of this path

i am sure that today will be a day that will effect Torley for a long time

Torley Linden chose Torley Torgelsons path...

Linden Labs enforced it through Torleys loyalty

the rest of the events Torley had no control over... nor did we...

this forum bullshit is smoke and mirrors hiding the unstable legs.

and as the table shakes, the cards fall...

how many cards have fallen in the last month alone?

did i chase starax away?

did i tell the content creators that theft was their problem?

do you think it benefits anyone that some extremely talented people are too scared of getting ripped off to release creations and are in fact backlogged with new products that people would love to buy?

do you think the "too bad so sad" motto of LL has stunted their main assets creativity and chased others away?

did i allow SL to fall into a state of such disrepair that even some of their most fierce apologists and talented creators now mock their blunders?

niether Torley nor I have chosen LLs current path of sweeping the problems under the rug for the sake of VC, a sales reciept, perhaps some free time for the love fest, or some other unknown variable

Torley has sacrificed himself for LL... whether the intention is monetary, loyalty to his employer, loyalty to SL, or a percieved loyalty to residents.

i truly feel bad for Torley on the day he realizes what he has chosen

and what he gave up in doing so

Torley was an innocent, who came here to play

playtime just ended... for a lot of us

why are we here again?

what is our goal as individuals here?

to make content so LL can tell us to "stfu, we are not listeneing?"

this isnt about the forums, or Torley and you damned well know that

Torley is just this weeks victim (todays victim)