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What recourse do I have? |
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Mike Westerburg
Who, What, Where?
Join date: 2 May 2004
Posts: 317
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11-07-2005 07:57
What I don't understand is for pre-fab houses like this to cost a bundle with bells and whistles added in but no way to revert back to orig textures. I know it take some leg work to get the scripts configured for each and every prim, but once the framework is created for say a box and shphere, they could be recycled. Builders don't even need to send the textures with the builds, have some sort of reset script that calls the asset UUID on the textures, scrit is no mod and does not reset texture on rez but it can be invoked perhaps by touching a master control prim that only responds to the owner and is in an obscure place and using llDialog with link messages to cut back on listens. For multi-part homes, perhaps use a diff control switch for each section. For $3,500, any house I buy had better have some way of either copy or reverting back because we all know how wonderful SL is right now with linked prims.....
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"Life throws you a lemon, you make lemonade and then plant the seeds"
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Blueman Steele
Registered User
Join date: 28 Dec 2004
Posts: 1,038
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General comment about SL building
11-07-2005 08:44
Right now in SL it's way too easy to "mess up" an object.
One could take the stand of "just dont' mess with it", but it need not be this way. Now as far as the owner not helping with his objects, he has no obligation to, but I certainly would not buy from a person like that. Direct recourse, I'm afraid I agree there is none at this point. I myself never mess with an object unless I'm willling to ruin it (and have). It would be a good time to review cooperative building and post purchase mod privilages and possibly make some changes |
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Mulch Ennui
15 Minutes are Over
Join date: 22 May 2005
Posts: 2,607
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11-07-2005 10:01
maybe this has been said, sorry if so...
but you could always write a review of the house and maker in MM =) _____________________
I have of late--but wherefore I know not--lost all my mirth, that this goodly frame, the earth, seems to me a sterile promontory, this most excellent canopy, the air, look you, this brave o'erhanging firmament, this majestical roof fretted with golden fire, why, it appears no other thing to me than a foul and pestilent congregation of vapours.
http://forums.secondcitizen.com/ |
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reddish Tigereye
antisocial recluse
Join date: 12 Nov 2003
Posts: 151
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11-07-2005 11:01
or 3. Unlink the prim that has gone phantom. Click on it and drag a "new" one. Delete the "new" one (which is actually the old one). The one left behind will be the exact right size, in the right place, and not phantom. coco wow, coco, did you understand what you just said? _____________________
antisocial recluse
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Forseti Svarog
ESC
Join date: 2 Nov 2004
Posts: 1,730
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11-07-2005 11:13
wow, coco, did you understand what you just said? heheh it sounds convoluted when reading, but try it while building and you'll see what she means (for those wondering about the drag-copy function she uses, grab the arrowhead of one of the colored arrows, hold down the shift key, and move the mouse) _____________________
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Mike Westerburg
Who, What, Where?
Join date: 2 May 2004
Posts: 317
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11-07-2005 11:24
wow, coco, did you understand what you just said? Coco was referring to fixing a bug in SL that allows a linked prim to become phantom on it's own, something of which we would love to have in SL but the current physics engine doen't allow it. The method is 100% valid as long as you have the proper permissions on the object. Unlinking the errant prim, using the shift-drag copy moves the orig prim and leaves a fresh copy of it behind in the position the prim started in with the exact same texture/size/cut/rot as the orig minus the errant phantom issue. Relink the newly created prim and the phantom issue is gone till the next time SL decides to go bonkers. I can see how this bug can bother a builder as they have 0 control over it and it could lead to support issues that leave both the consumer and the creator pulling their hair out. Often times, setting the entire linkset to either phantom or non-phantom doesn't work for this bug either. How about this though for reversal, attachments on the avatar become phantom while the avatar does not...talk about wierd... Then there are bugs that get exploited purposfully in builds like the clipping texture which makes avatars, particals and alpha settings vanish. The other exploit is/was the phantom AV hack that removes the clipping on the avatar allowing it to act like a phantom object. Heh, if there was a reliable way to reproduce the phantom linked prim on a continual basis, that too would be exploited and used. _____________________
"Life throws you a lemon, you make lemonade and then plant the seeds"
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Csven Concord
*
Join date: 19 Mar 2005
Posts: 1,015
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11-07-2005 11:29
"The other exploit is/was the phantom AV hack that removes the clipping on the avatar allowing it to act like a phantom object."
That still works? |
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Mike Westerburg
Who, What, Where?
Join date: 2 May 2004
Posts: 317
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11-07-2005 11:42
"The other exploit is/was the phantom AV hack that removes the clipping on the avatar allowing it to act like a phantom object." That still works? I dunno lol! I haven't tested it since 1.7 hit because I have been toying with new features like HUDs. I will test it out tonight though. I remeber a lot of games have a "cheat code" to perform this effect, is a cheat for these games as in you could pop in and out of a room blowing the baddies to pieces and not take a hit or fly up and down to diff levels on a map or even venture outside of the pre-set game-space. While it removed the game play features, it was fun to mess with. _____________________
"Life throws you a lemon, you make lemonade and then plant the seeds"
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Jake Reitveld
Emperor of Second Life
Join date: 9 Mar 2005
Posts: 2,690
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11-07-2005 12:43
Hell I build custom homes for free.
 But ya gotta ask._____________________
ALCHEMY -clothes for men.
Lebeda 208,209 |
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Ingrid Ingersoll
Archived
Join date: 10 Aug 2004
Posts: 4,601
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11-07-2005 12:45
Holy crap. $L3500 for a prefab? Yeah, I have to say, that is an awful lot for something taht will be sold several times over. A custom job is a differnet matter. _____________________
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Beatfox Xevious
is THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE
Join date: 1 Jun 2004
Posts: 879
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11-07-2005 12:53
How about this though for reversal, attachments on the avatar become phantom while the avatar does not...talk about wierd... Don't mean to be a nitpick, but avatar attachments are always phantom. Or did you mean something else? _____________________
My Beatworks: Zephyr Chimes wind chimes, the KanaMaster Japanese kana tutor, and the FREE Invisibility Prim Public. Look for them at the Luskwood General Store in Lusk (144, 165).
"You have been frozen. You cannot move or chat. A pony will contact you via instant message (IM)." - mysterious system message I received after making off with Pony Linden |
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WynterWolfe Sieyes
Registered User
Join date: 22 Oct 2005
Posts: 47
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11-07-2005 14:04
This is highly unlikely what you want to hear but ill say this anyway: I dont think you should have even tried to fool with it to begin with, the item is sold as is and was in working order when you purchased it, right? why should the creator have to take a hit on something you fouled up? If its not broken dont fix it. it wouldn't be "taking a hit on it" to replace it. It's already made, it's readily available. I can understand wanting to change textures on something. Have you never bought a house, and loved everything about it except one or two things? It's not like she was trying to rebuild it, merely place a different texture. _____________________
Startin' on custom tats, IM me in world, if interested.
"Do you really want to pay some name baron in SL if you really want to use your own Johnson?" SuezanneC Baskerville |
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Jim Lumiere
Registered User
Join date: 24 May 2004
Posts: 474
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11-07-2005 14:15
As a fairly 'new' builder in SL, I have been reading this thread and can sympathise totally with the original buyers predicament. There is no excuse for bad after-service whether the house is 500 or 5000. That aside, there have been comments about the cost of prefabs and the total 'shock' by one contributor at the price of prefabs in SL. I can only say what my experience is. I will straightaway say some of my homes come under the 'shock horror' price bracket. My homes are mod/copy and no transfer and I have, and will, continue to supply the textures as 'No transfer' items to the buyers if they request them. On the price, I make no apologies. I work hard to make the homes that people have bought and have even told me I am far too cheap for what they feel they are buying. I am talking about people that have been in SL for some time and know their prices and the genral prefab market. If people refuse to buy my homes at a price I feel reflects the effort that has gone into it then the market has spoken. This is not the case I am fortunate to say. On the question of houses being modifiable, I will make one observation. A builder's home, when sold continues to be an advert for his work, good or bad. The creator's name is all over it. I have seen cases, and my homes included, where the buyer has made extensive modifications to the property, often badly done and used the same textures supplied. Anyone seeing the house could quite easly assume that this 'work' is by the original builder and could seriously damage the view by a potential buyer of that builder's work. This is the downside of giving mod rights. I will continue to take that risk. I give after sales service at no charge if required. This is usually because they drop a texture on the floor or have not locked the house down and move a section or unlink the and move the house. Despite this, I will continue to supply mod/copy prefabs at the prices I do now. In the early days I sold 'cheap' and was told I was too cheap. I raised prices and sales have not decreased, they have increased! When I joined SL, 18 months ago I also bought prefab homes and paid L2000 for homes that had tile textures on the floor that in real life would measure 10ft square! The overall message I have received is 'quality and attention to detail' The price is secondary if the these attributes apply. I feel my homes have both and more importantly, my customers say they do. I won't moan about builders who decide to sell homes at L200 or as I have seen, L35,000. They will sell them or them wont. Let the buyers decide. You raise a couple of very interesting points: o If you let someone else modify your work, you are letting them contribute to your reputation ... for good or ill. o Paying for quality and attention to detail is a good thing ... cheap isn't necessarily always better. I've been pondering these for some time, particularly allowing mod perms. Granted I dont generally build homes, but I do sometimes build structures (if you've visited my Market, you see I build all sorts of things) and the work I do is all of a piece, including the textures I've chosen .. sometimes created or customized to contribute specific qualities to the build. Attention to detail in texture repeats and prim placement are important to a polished finished product. And, as we all know, different textures take different repeat and offset settings to look their best. And these can take a lot of skill to finesse properly ... I know, I often call for help at that very last step of "nudging"!  At any rate, I'm much more likely to customize something for someone so that they get exactly what they want and I can be sure work with my name on it truly is my own. BTW ... I perfectly understand the position those who only sell/buy things with mod perms take and its not my intention to try to sway them or say they are in any way wrong ... just that I have a different point of view. |
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Cocoanut Koala
Coco's Cottages
Join date: 7 Feb 2005
Posts: 7,903
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11-07-2005 14:31
"o If you let someone else modify your work, you are letting them contribute to your reputation ... for good or ill."
I worried about that some when I first started. Then I decided that their mere BUYING of your item is compliment enough. Besides, I might just LOVE somebody's entire house, except the bedroom walls. So I would want to change them. And if I might want to, my customers might want to. Interestingly, when I have come across houses I've built, nobody has ever changed anything. Not to say they haven't in those I haven't seen in situ, but I was just surprised that no one had. coco _____________________
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Jim Lumiere
Registered User
Join date: 24 May 2004
Posts: 474
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11-07-2005 14:53
"o If you let someone else modify your work, you are letting them contribute to your reputation ... for good or ill." I worried about that some when I first started. Then I decided that their mere BUYING of your item is compliment enough. Besides, I might just LOVE somebody's entire house, except the bedroom walls. So I would want to change them. And if I might want to, my customers might want to. Interestingly, when I have come across houses I've built, nobody has ever changed anything. Not to say they haven't in those I haven't seen in situ, but I was just surprised that no one had. coco But you know ... its not about compliments ... its about someone seeing something with your name on it ... and thinking it is representative of the body of work that you do when in fact its been altered and bears only a vague semblance to what you may have created to begin with. Sometimes the work is well done and its a credit to your name; sometimes its not ... and you would just as soon it didn't have your name on it. Once you let people modify your work ... you have no control of the impression its making on anyone that might see it. |
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Jonquille Noir
Lemon Fresh
Join date: 17 Jan 2004
Posts: 4,025
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11-07-2005 15:16
But you know ... its not about compliments ... its about someone seeing something with your name on it ... and thinking it is representative of the body of work that you do when in fact its been altered and bears only a vague semblance to what you may have created to begin with. Sometimes the work is well done and its a credit to your name; sometimes its not ... and you would just as soon it didn't have your name on it. Once you let people modify your work ... you have no control of the impression its making on anyone that might see it. Once you sell your work, you also have no control of the impression it's making on anyone that might see it. If your reputation concerns you that much, I would recommend displaying your works, but never selling them. I could very well fill your prefab with David Hasslehoff pr0n, (shudder) if I so chose. And I've paid for it, so that would be my right. In regards to one of your earlier points... Something being expensive does not make it better, either, nor insure quality. All it does mean is that the buyer thinks 100% cotton with a D&G label is somehow different than 100% cotton with a Gap or Banana Republic label. _____________________
Little Rebel Designs
Gallinas |
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Juro Kothari
Like a dog on a bone
Join date: 4 Sep 2003
Posts: 4,418
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11-07-2005 19:35
Holy crap. $L3500 for a prefab? Am I undercharging AGAIN?  Yes.  _____________________
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Juro Kothari
Like a dog on a bone
Join date: 4 Sep 2003
Posts: 4,418
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11-07-2005 19:45
I'm sorry to hear this Katt. It paints a bad picture for builders and there are a LOT of very good, reputable (and helpful) builders out there who enjoy building and sometimes they even enjoy lending a hand when an issue arises.
When I first started doing prefabs, I did a lot of questioning of other builders with regard to permissions. I settled on Copy/Mod/No Trans. This was for a couple of reasons, the main one being that I felt my customers would like the freedom to tweak the house a bit (Mod) and not have to worry if they totally messed a part up because they could just delete it and re-rez a new part (Copy). In order to keep someone else from buying one and reselling my homes, I made them No Trans - not ideal, but so far it has worked. In my opinion, your builder should allow for Mod - but that's just me. They might have some legitimate concern over allowing Mod - I dunno. As for the customer service, well, just like in RL some companies are better and some are worse. The bad ones will get the reputation and nobody wants that. I've been selling homes for 2 years now and I've helped out quite a few customers - everyone of which was shocked that I would spend time to help them out. Everyone of them was a pleasure to deal with and very appreciative of my time. I hope it all works out. _____________________
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Juro Kothari
Like a dog on a bone
Join date: 4 Sep 2003
Posts: 4,418
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11-07-2005 19:47
But you know ... its not about compliments ... its about someone seeing something with your name on it ... and thinking it is representative of the body of work that you do when in fact its been altered and bears only a vague semblance to what you may have created to begin with. Sometimes the work is well done and its a credit to your name; sometimes its not ... and you would just as soon it didn't have your name on it. Once you let people modify your work ... you have no control of the impression its making on anyone that might see it. I've never been concerned about that. I think the value of allowing the customer to tweak to suit thier tastes trumps my 'name'. _____________________
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Cocoanut Koala
Coco's Cottages
Join date: 7 Feb 2005
Posts: 7,903
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11-07-2005 21:59
But you know ... its not about compliments ... its about someone seeing something with your name on it ... and thinking it is representative of the body of work that you do when in fact its been altered and bears only a vague semblance to what you may have created to begin with. Sometimes the work is well done and its a credit to your name; sometimes its not ... and you would just as soon it didn't have your name on it. Once you let people modify your work ... you have no control of the impression its making on anyone that might see it. Well, I thought of that. But, two things (or five or six): 1. If somebody tweaks it enough, and it does look terrible, then nobody is gonna check the name of it anyway! 2. If somebody tweaks it, generally they're gonna tell their friends what they changed. 3. I want them to be happy living in the house. Just like a real house they buy and can modify as they like. 4. If I had made something really unique - like maybe a space needle/super-transporting/septuple-level/neon blue/14-room-and-three-tunnel/hovering/blinky thingie called "Demon House from the Planet Zyron" - and intended to make a permanent statement with it, I wouldn't make it mod! In more practical terms, if I make a smaller item that would make a neat gift, and maybe could be easily ruined, with little or no real need for anyone to modify it, then I put transfer but no mod/copy. coco _____________________
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Memory Harker
Girl Anachronism
Join date: 17 Jun 2005
Posts: 393
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11-07-2005 22:06
I've never been concerned about that. I think the value of allowing the customer to tweak to suit thier tastes trumps my 'name'. This, from the guy who, whenever I've been so impressed by a residential (at least) build that I check (or ask) who created it, it turns out to be him. No wonder I've heard only the highest praise regarding Juro ... |
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Memory Harker
Girl Anachronism
Join date: 17 Jun 2005
Posts: 393
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11-07-2005 22:07
"Demon House from the Planet Zyron" OMG! Was that you?!? I thought it was Eddie Escher ...  |
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Juro Kothari
Like a dog on a bone
Join date: 4 Sep 2003
Posts: 4,418
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11-08-2005 10:48
This, from the guy who, whenever I've been so impressed by a residential (at least) build that I check (or ask) who created it, it turns out to be him. No wonder I've heard only the highest praise regarding Juro ... That's just my shining personality! OK - you can all quit laughing now. It's not *that* funny. _____________________
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Cristiano Midnight
Evil Snapshot Baron
Join date: 17 May 2003
Posts: 8,616
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11-08-2005 11:12
This, from the guy who, whenever I've been so impressed by a residential (at least) build that I check (or ask) who created it, it turns out to be him. No wonder I've heard only the highest praise regarding Juro ... I agree with you completely - Juro's homes are incredible. I especially like his latest home - it is a completely different style than the rest he has done, and shows his diversity. The house he did for Annie Butler in Stanford remains my favorite house in Second Life after several years - a testament to how talented he is, even surrounded by other great talents. He also happens to be an incredibly nice guy. _____________________
Cristiano
ANOmations - huge selection of high quality, low priced animations all $100L or less. ~SLUniverse.com~ SL's oldest and largest community site, featuring Snapzilla image sharing, forums, and much more.  |
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Jake Reitveld
Emperor of Second Life
Join date: 9 Mar 2005
Posts: 2,690
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11-08-2005 11:28
There seems to be a rash of builders providing bad, or indifferent customer service. These builders also command sky high prices for prefab housing (Ie 3500-4500 linden for houses suited to a 1024).
In many cases the design is indiffernent, and in some, such as the one I observed, the construction is downright shoddy, with windows that don't go flush to the window frames and walls that don't line up. I am astounded that people would pay for this sort of crap. Well I am not, when you are new to SL and have no experience of building, you are at the mercy of people who will steal your money. We as builders need to educate our clients and potential customers of the hazards of prefabs, and not to buy except from a reputable builder. _____________________
ALCHEMY -clothes for men.
Lebeda 208,209 |
