Rights for Tenants

I have been evicted by my landlord whithout notice. I am now at war with this "person" [edited] as he will not reinstate my tenantcy. I have lodged a formal complaint with no responce.
My question is how can you purchase anything with cofidence in SL if it can be stolen from you without any retrabution?


Torley Linden:
Please don't "name names" in the forums as part of a personal dispute--it isn't allowed. See the forum Guidelines for more info.

Whilst I sympathise with your situation, and understand your frustration, "naming names" isn't a good thing to do on the forums, and you may want to edit the name out.

Unfortunately there seems to be very little you can do as you have essentially no rights, unless you both signed an agreement at the start of your rental.

My recommendation? Don't bother to rent, go premium and buy some land. It'll cost you perhaps a couple of extra dollars a month (when you factor in the increased stipend) for security and peace of mind knowing that your land is your own.

I did some maths here which may be of interest.

Lewis

Thanks for your reply Lewis, It seems you are right that tenants have no rights in SL and the situation is renter beware!

It's actually everybody beware. We have no rights as Second Life residents.

By "tenant", do you mean to be renting property owned by someone else, Dodge? That's the usual implication of "tenant", but your later talking about buying makes me uncertain of your actual meaning.

Well, that and all of 3 hours of sleep in the past 2 days. Insomnia sucks.

I could send you some books on cost accounting. This should help you with your Insommia or perhaps make you a recording of me on how to read my firms reports. If this stuff does not put you to sleep, nothing will!
About "renter rights", I do not think it is really possible in SL. It is the one positive thing about being "premium" and buying land. On the other hand the TOS really does not promise anything for our money. Not sure if it would hold up in a court........
Oh, business law is another good subject to read to get sleepy. How about the exciting subject of common law?
Update on my thoughts of making a recording, my coworkers said they will bind and gag me if I tried to make one in the office!

Man, I love these threads that start off badmouthing people I've never heard of before.

This combined with the events over at The Forest, we seem to be getting a clear reminder that the landowner has unquestioned authority over their own land, regardless of your rental agreement.

Knowing how politics work in SL, I wouldn't hold out much hope for any Tenant Rights policy.

I think Lewis may have had the best plan. When you do the math, upgrading to a premium account may cost you a tiny bit extra per month, but that tiny extra buys you ownership of the land and freedom from landlords.

omg linden $hill!

Please Keep this Simple Landcard in your Pocket at all Times:

Land owner = King
Land Renter = Serf

Have a nice day

Sorry to hear you had a bad experience. One thing you should get from a new landlord is their rules/regulations. Most experienced landlords provide you with their rules/regulations, often before you rent - they clearly outline what you can and cannot do - gives everyone a level ground to start.

If you run into any problems, reference the rules - at least you'll have a common frame of reference.

Also ask around before you rent..check up on the landlord or property manager, ask current and past tennants - most people are pretty open about these things. Do your homework before you rent and it will pay off in the long run.

-2fast

I have never rented land so I don't have any first hand experience to call from - but I know that you can get better deals than anshechung.com if you shop around, and just like in real life, the quality of service can vary greatly from landlord to landlord.

My personal recommendation remains, however, that whilst renting is good for the first couple of months whilst you decide whether Second Life is for you, the small extra monthly cost of premium plus owning your own land is preferable for the long-term player.

Lewis

Khamon is right. Look at the ToS. Even as a land owner you have no rights. Linden labs can take your land away from you and sell it to someone else anytime they want. for any reason they want. Or for no reason at all.

Second Life isn't a democracy, it's an absolute totalitarian state. We exist in SL at Phillips whim.

This is exactly why I said allowing island owners to 'sell' land to groups was a mistake. It is a misnomer, and it will be used to bilk people.

If that is true then why would people invest real us$ in SL?

For the same reason people buy into any other get rich quick scheme. Many people don't invest real US$ into Second Life though; they simply spend the money for entertainment.

Same reason other companies get invested in for entertainment. We know it's in the best interest of said company to deliver.

SL is - if I may borrow this term - "embryotic". Much about the system doesnt' make a great deal of sense just yet, and LL drags thier feet on changing things becasue of a (IMO somwhat misguided) interest in having the community invent methods and means for themselves.

A very good question. Did you see the thread Anshe posted a few months ago about how LL had suspended her account over a payment issue? She has 10's of thousands of US dollars invested in SL, and they had no qualms about nuking her.

Personally I would never invest real money in SL. I own land that I used to make money, but I didn't buy it for that reason. I bought it for entertainment, and had extra prims and room left over, so used it for a business (which is really for fun as well). But I would never invest thousands of real $$s in SL.

There is no contract law, there are no courts to resolve disputes and ToS enforcement is haphazard at best. The rule of law in SL is “Caveat Emptor”. To top all of that off, LL can cancel your account at any time they choose, for any reason they choose. Not a very safe place to do business to say the least.

So I agree, why would people invest real US$ in SL?

D you go to baseball, basketball, hockey or any other games? How about movie? Do you go shopping? Do you drive?

You can be kicked out of any of those places with or without reason (read the back of a ticket). Same with a movie, mall, or any store. Same with driving...your local or federal government grants you the permission and can take it away whenever they like (during emergencies, for example).

So...why would you go to any of those places and spend your money, or do any of those things...<sarcastic> does not seem safe to me </sarcastic>.

More info: Most places you go to in RL are owned by someone and are thus private property. The owner grants you permission to stay -- and may revoke that permission with or without cause. Same with SL/LL.

-2fast

Last time I checked we had things called courts in rl. We have laws that protect you in rl. If someone tries to take your livelihood, you can take them to court and fight it.

In SL, LL can do anything they want, and you can't do a damn thing about it except cry.

Blocking my land and signage in Shepherd is against the TOS, you will soon know the meaning of your own words..........because I am the "Queen" of my land.

Ok so you are urging people not to rent property inSL?

No...I was just drawing parallels between RL and SL. Any transaction involves trust..be it between a resident and LL or between residents. The poster I originally replied to suggested that it may not be safe to spend 'real' money in SL because LL can revoke access anytime - I just pointed out that the situation is nothing new...happens every day in RL. In RL there is more trust to an extent because, in many cases, the courts can enforce laws and confirm rights. In RL, if you are kicked out of a mall or other private property you'll have to leave and use the courts later if necessary.

In SL, if you feel someone ripped you off or unjustly evicted you, and that person does it to others, the landlord is not going to be in business for very long. This is because the 'court' in SL is the community and word of mouth (or...ummm...keyboard ) spreads quickly.

I personally do the best I can in terms of honoring agreements. LL ultimately controls SL so as long as they exist and allow me to access the grid then I'll honor any agreements I enter into with another resident. I think that is the best any business person in SL can do.

In the end...as I said in my original post...if we do our homework first (ask about the landlord/property manager, ask current and past residnets, review rules before renting, etc), all of us will benefit.

-2fast

I am still in dispute with this "person" and negotiations continue but sinse he called me a pedophile and had me shot by his hired gun things have become a little tence.