Clarifications About InfoNet

Due to the recent interest and 'hype' in reguard to the InfoNet, I'd like to clarify a few points raised on behalf of Gnat Technologies.

1). The creators of the InfoNet(Gnat Technologies), masterminded the demise of telehubs. (False)
Gnat Technologies leases a special version of the InfoNet terminals to linden lab, to use as they see fit. We were unaware that the InfoNet was going to be used inplace of telehubs in the future. We would have preferred to hear the good news from Linden Lab, but we ourselves only recently found out by being yelled at from a member of the community that was unhappy by the loss of his own land profits.


2). The Second Hell Tourbus should be removed from the InfoNet, as it is the worst subjective biast list of places ever seen.
We believe in free speech and do our best to not interfere with publishing groups. The second hell tourbus is managed by a third party group, same as all our publishing groups (second life herald, doped goat quarterly, etc.). Self sensorship has worked to date, although due to public demand we will be re-considdering their publishing access on the infoNet.


3). People pay to be listed in the infoNet Toplist. (False)
The toplist is a list of the top new places in Second Life. in order to qualify, the location must be no greater than 3 months old, and have a traffic average of under 1,000. There is no fee to be listed. All resident locations listed had prior permission from the land owner. Locations are added on request, in addition to those found by our research team.


4). No popular places are listed in the InfoNet Toplist. (True)
The toplist is a list of the best hidden treasures in second life. therefore the popular places you know and love, will never be listed. The goal of the toplist is to encourage growth in small groups and increase the diversity in second life.

Squagmire,

thank you for this post. taking it at face value, it seems that InfoNet is simply a victim of itself. granted, apparently, not on purpose.

i like the way the top list is comprised of builds under 3 months old and with under a 1,000 dwell rating. this should help out the "little guys" in SL and hopefully works as intended.

but, let me get to the topic that's really at hand.. the Second Hell Tourbus.

for your sake, and the sake of SL, please expediate this process. it is apparently inflammatory to include such a thing in a vendor emant to help new SLers acclimate themselves to our world. it does nothing to bolster confidence and could possibly generate an increase in griefing.

it appears that the intentions of InfoNet are of a positive nature and i would like to see a resolve that brings this whole issue 180°. your resources could be (and have been, yes?) used to enrich the SL experience instead of degrading it. i'm sure you are taking the matter seriously and i appreciate that.

it's fairly simple, just make it a standard regulation of InfoNet that anything of a questionable or negative nature will not be allowed or tolerated. any such submissions will either be rejected outright or, if somehow it gets into InfoNet, removed immediately upon detection.

thank you again and i'm hoping to see a brighter InfoNet in the near future.


Ps - as far as "Best of" lists go.. sure, why not? just be sure to require a clear statement that any such list is comprised by resident selection and has no affiliation with the views of LL.

I would like to echo what Cybin said (I doubt I could have said it so well ). I really think InfoNet is a valuable tool for the community overall.

Ps. I knew all along you weren't an evil monster Squagmire .

You're getting tier free Linden provided land, and charging money for listings.

Apparently, you are also being paid by LL for your system (correct me if I am wrong).

While I am not against LL/player contracts, said contracts need to be made available for bidding, lottery, or some other fair method. They need not just crop up overnight like this. It only feeds the "OMG LL is corrupt" machine.

Think about it.

While I understand your reaction to a degree, Squagmire, it is allways a questionable tactic in an argument, IMHO, to deny accusations that nobody has made.

I have not read all of the posts regarding this issue - that would have been physically impossible - but there were some serious concerns, that had nothing to do with denying the freedom of expression in SL or dubious conspiration theories.

No (or a least not many) participant(s) in these discussions did deny you the right to publish the information that is contained on the InfoNet platform. What is questioned - and rightfully so - is, if such content, which is perfectly OK in a private publication, should be presented in the WA and at the former telehubs.

The reason for this is simply, that any content presented at these locations get a kind of "Linden stamp of approval". This is especially so with inexperienced residents which typically can be found a lot at these locations. This is what has been critisized!

Why? LL is not a public government. They're a private company. They're free to do whatever they want in as private a manner as they see fit, and there's nothing "corrupt" about it.

I've done work for LL 3 times, two of which they came to me specifically, and one of which I went to them when I found out they were looking for someone. The two times they came to me were both instances where they needed work done by someone they knew for a fact sepcialized in exactly what they were looking for. Tell me, if you needed something done right away and done in a very specific manner, wouldn't you just do the logical thing and go straight to someone you know is already doing it?

What possibly would have been gained had they opened those jobs up for bid? They just would have wasted time waiting for people to submit proposals, and then they probably would have hired me anyway since my work was what they happened to want for those specific jobs.

As for the time I went to them, I thought the project they had in mind was interesting, so I built half the thing and then sent in an E-mail with pictures, saying basically "Look, I'm building this whether you buy it or not, so check out what's done so far, and if you like it we'll talk price." How could they refuse?

Getting hired by LL is just like getting hired by any other private company or person. There are four basic steps. First, do high quality work. Second, network. Make it a point to get to know key people and make sure you do everything you can to ensure that they think well of you. Third, be a self-promoter. Make sure your work is known, and specifically that it's known to those who are in a position to hire you. Fourth, be in the right place at the right time. Keep aprised of what's going on and then aggressively market yourself when you see that they have a need you can fill. It's that simple. You may not always get the job, but you'll always be in the race, which is the only way to make sure you get any of them at all.

In other words, you don't sit around waiting for bids to magically fall out of the sky. You take the reigns as a business person and you proactively market your services. You don't wait for good fortune to just appear; you make your own opportunities, all by yourself. That's true in RL, and it's just as true in SL.

Oh, and by the way, just so you know, LL is never willing to pay very much, so it's not like anyone who doesn't get hired is missing out on their path to fortune and glory. All 3 jobs I took on were done more out of a desire to help them out than anything else. I got paid only a small fraction of what the jobs were worth.

Anyway, clearly in this situation, Infonet is a working product that does what LL was looking for. I fail to see how it would make sense to open up something like this for public bids, likely to consist mostly of theoretical products people claim they can build, when an existing product is already in place. All that would accomplish would be to slow down the process considerably while risking hiring someone who might not be able to deliver on his promises. Once again, if it were you, wouldn't you just hire the guy you already know can do the job?


Well said, Cybin. I totally agree.

Thanks, Squagmire for setting the record straight.

I think you need to review my second to last paragraph. (before the "think about it" part.)

I have an old notecard from a meeting with you that gives some very interesting insight to this whole thing. I am disappointed to see you posting that you had no idea LL was interested or that telehubs were a possibility, as both were distinct items we discussed.

I will not be releashing this card, but I do mention it for relevancy.

That is all.

My concern with the Second Life tourbus is that I couldn't find out who published it. Perhaps I missed the names somewhere? I believe in Free Speach, but not where the author remains anonymous while denigrating other people. Who are the authors?

Let's try a few in return.

1) The idea of "getting hired" is not appropriate in this case because LL did not allow any time between saying they wanted an information service and implementing InfoNet. 90% of the time, any information LL want to give out goes through meta-game means such as the Classifieds and Find list and the MOTD, and Linden notecards. Newbie helper information goes by regular notecard givers which are in the Library. There was no suggestion that Linden would want or need a networked in-world information service. There's a reason no-one else made anything like InfoNet: it was a niche market until suddenly LL decided to catapult it to major significance without telling anyone.

2) The quality of InfoNet as an information service at hubs is not clear. The current version of InfoNet loads very large numbers of textures, makes inefficient use of the textures it stores, has an unnecessarily large number of running scripts, and does not manage multiple users well. I do not doubt that Squagmire is capable of correcting all of these, but again: the idea is to to do good work on the task required then get hired, not to get hired and then fix up the work to make it good for the new job. This is a kick in the teeth to any scripter who's ever spent hours trying to make a networked object as ecological as possible.

3) A Linden exclusive privilege has been given to a private resident. As mentioned: you can now advertise in the WA, but only if one resident decides you can, and that resident is not a Linden. Biiiiig problem.

4) Little compensation for telehub land and loss of existing functionality. It used to be the case that anyone could advertise for free in a telehub; now you have to pay Squagmire. Equally, the landowners around telehubs get no special advantage in that telehub's advertisements and no ability to control what's on the hub, so they've been "compensated" by a big ol' dollop of free land next to them being given to... Squagmire.

Squagmire for the record, I think Infonet is pretty cool. If more people knew about it, it would be huge. Maybe now it will be. No one is blaming you.

But I think a lot of people would like to have their businesses on Linden land too.

Ok I got a few comments here.

First, until I see Squag's name slapped on the former telehub plots she doesn't own them. Plain and simple.

Second, once again I'll state Squag has no control of where her products are placed. If the Lindens decides to put terminals at the new Infohubs thats their perogitive. As for their quality and multiuser capabilities, they were originally designed to be user friendly and to be used by 1 person at a time.

Third, maybe this is why the Lindens revamped the ingame classifieds so you wouldn't have to goto Squag for advertising. The ingame classifieds DO work as I've gotten visitors to my establishment this way. As for the infonet directory from what I've seen its pretty much there for small time/new businesses or organizations.

Finally, I agree with Chosen. If you're looking for something for a big build and you know someone who has the skills to do it or already has an established product that does exactly what you need why would you waste the time advertising what you're looking for? Squagmire has admitted she didn't know what was going on, whether you believe her or not in your problem.

Oh btw, there is one other product out there like infoNET made by a guy called Cristos Shatner. So yes, Squag DOES have competition and ifnoNET ISN'T one of a kind.

To be honest and fair to LL, I don't see why LL should have to open a democratic process on any of their decisions on who they do business with.

For some reason I get the impression that the motivation behind this point of view is less about common sense and pragmatic value and more about "Mommy! I want a LL contract too! It's not fair that Tommy got picked!"

Of course, I could be very wrong and don't surmise to know what your motivations in particular, Nolan, are -- nor do I assume any single individual's motivations. This argument IMO has become a "group-think" idea and I'm just trying to understand it.

Thanks for the clarification.

Sounds like a really cool piece of technology.

I also appreciate your views on free-speech and content "policing."

It's too bad that so few people will actually appreciate the work of you and your group simply on the basis that you had received an opportunity that they didn't get a chance to stick their noses into.

But that's life I guess.

I agree that it is within LL rights to purchase the skills/items/etc. from players. I personally would have preferred that these type of things go up as a "Requests for bids" - I think in general LL would get more bang for the buck if the whole populous was competing for a contract, and in turn, the world would benefit from the best of a market.

I agree that providing exclusive access/control of the media provided through these hubs to a single entity is too much power. I don't know if Squagmire's intent is to utilize his unique position to further his end, however the end result is he is in the position to sway opinion, promote things he wishes, badmouth those he doesn't like, and the fact the LL owns these hub areas gives the whole thing a "LL Stamp of Approval" on any information that it carries.

I agree with Anshe that this is a huge slap in the face for those whom did invest money in the telehubs. At least with the telehubs, it was up for bid whom had this control of the masses viewing impressions. Now, it is in control of a single entity, whom actually got paid for a similar right, and will continue to make money by those whom wish to utilize their service.

I would propose that access to these former hubs get re-evaluated on a regular basis - monthly? Quarterly? Either offer access based on merit (i.e. whomever has the best product offering at the time) or by bid (whomever will pay the most for the right). I personally would prefer by merit, but at least by bid would allow others to be involved. I don't know fully how many prims are available at each hub, but perhaps there could be multiple spots open, so each is cycled out and a new offering based upon merit or bid (or a combination if there is multiple) every month.

Squagmire, I personally think you are taking too much grief from this. You jumped at a huge oportunity - one that would be stupid not to take. The fault in the current situation is all on LL and hopefully the outcries about this will cause them to change their position.

No sure how this rumor got started, but it's completely incorrect.

Please see /3/25/76205/1.html#post792613

-Pathfinder

In my opinion, claiming people are involved in "group-think" is actually "group-think". Think about that.

What are the control elements of this? Will this be a typical LL "hands off" policy? So is the SecondHell Tourbus a non-issue since we can all now put info at the InfoHubs slamming other residents businesses?

EDIT: The string of links Pathfinder provided did not answer these questions satisfactorily.

More clarification:

/108/64/76379/2.html#post792623

-Pathfinder

Good question, Gabe.

coco

I simply don't understand why LL has such a hard time communicating to its users. I am sure that if my tier payment was missed, I would be sufficiently notified. How, then, does information LL thinks is valuable get missed by so many residents?

So what is needed to be considered for one of these "many devices"? I did not see any post stating "Hey, you got a nifty device that could benefit the masses, let us know. We may have free telehub land for you to use". That is the issue as I see it - there was no announcement for submitting objects for considerations as devices on the land.

You got me there. I am so amazed and confounded.

Squagmire is not being given the former telehub land; Infonet is only one of the things that will be included at the Infohubs.

P2

(nod) I'm sorry - I'm not attacking Squagmire here. It's Linden's choice to endorse Squagmire that's the problem. The terminals are user friendly - the problem is the way they're constructed. As it is, there's only a few page templates, but for every page it has to load 8+ textures because they're all managed by being broken up into lines. Equally, each of those lines contains a running script to detect clicks (which shouldn't be necessary as the base unit could use llDetectedLinkNumber() to see which was clicked) and a 100% alpha texture called 0 (which shouldn't be necessary as the base unit can use llSetLinkAlpha() to make the buttons vanish on pages that don't use them).



No, it was for small time/new businesses or organizations because it didn't have coverage. Do you think that's going to stay the same when it can offer cover at every hub and the WA?



Because InfoNET doesn't do "exactly what they need" - or, if it does, then other residents need to be rather worried about what LL deem themselves to "need".

I'm perturbed by Robin Linden's post as well, basically because:

a) if the Lindens wanted something like this, they can use a regular notecard giver. But wouldn't that mean they'd have to fly all around updating all the notecard givers in world? No, they wouldn't - they're LL! They can just run an update on the back end database whenever things change. That would be infinately more efficient than in-game e-mails constantly flying back and forth between servers and every hub. And also, better hope the w-hats never find out where the servers are, or find out how to fake email from objects...

b) the problem isn't with Linden putting their notices in a service that has other content too, the problem is with Linden putting in-world access to that service in telehubs and the WA. This isn't comparable to a link from SL.com - a link from any other popular SL site would be as good (if not better), but nothing can compare to a site in the WA.

If this really was just for the sake of distributing information, why not disable all but the Linden channel on the InfoNet box in the WA? That would remove the "it's ok to advertise there now" problem.