Voices of the Banned

Hey folks, Robin Linden just responded to one of my Hotline question here:

/invalid_link.html

...and suggested I start a thread to discuss the issue. The question is, should users be allowed to ferry the text of a banned user into the forums? Robin seems comfortable with links, and I think I am too, but what about text?

My biggest concern is how the practice would mesh with the Linden policy of not allowing us to comment on banned users. This would mean the arguments of banned users would be permitted in the forums (via messengers) but counter arguments would not be permitted. Here is an example:

Flamey Trollkin Writes:
What do you folks think about the comments by banned user Banny Blackbird written on his blog? Let's discuss his quote:


Aimee Weber Writes:
Uh Wait... Banny Blackbird is [Comments about banned user removed by Jeska]! So that's MY side of the story. I will let the readers decide.

As far as I am aware, no one has ferried any text. People have put links, and then invited others to discuss the ideas.

coco

If people are banned then they should be banned totally...links or otherwise should not be allowed.

Kinda defeats the purpose of being banned if people can still see what they have to say in a web link, but then again it shouldn't be ok to talk about banned people either as is done almost daily here...

It is still possible to discuss the concept regardless of whether it has happened YET.

Links = OK. Text = Not OK.

Commenting on banned users? I don't see why not, but I'm not in charge.

Anyone who says anything negative about Aimee should not be allowed to have any type of voice on the forums.

I'll prolly get hit for this then: http://burke.godswitch.com/?p=12, it's not ferried text or anything, it's just my little peeves about the state of SL and how people are saying they havan't abandonded it because there is no alternative.

No alternative.... yet.

Why don't they just let Prok back in. Those who want to see her long winded blatherings can, those who don't, don't need to. More bits have been spilled on Prok's bannination than are really warranted. Linden Lab wants us to be self-governing - paternalistic control is the antithesis of their stated desire and it tends to foster dependency. This half-assed post-by-proxy is even slightly more silly than our champ troll's domination of the forums despite having no in-game presence.

This is said by someone who received a three-day suspension for knowingly bending the Forum rules in teasing Prokofy Neva immediately prior to her forum ban.

I'd like the TOS amended to incorporate this immediately.

Thanks for the sig B.

Yeah. I think I made my point about big-ass signatures. This better? Expect something a little smaller soonish.

I agree 100%.

If someone wants to start a discussion based on what they've read on a banned poster's blog (let's say), then I don't see any reason that they can't state what they want to discuss in their own words - there's no reason that they have to quote verbatim what the banned poster said unless they want to discuss that actual quote itself as opposed to the topic.

Therefore I don't see any reason for links to the banned poster's blog OR specific quotes from the blog.

BIC

I don't think there should be bannings, nor suspensions.

No I meant thanks for providing me with a signature quote from this:

I stand corrected. There was apparently some text quoted.

I'll tell ya what, though. This business of trying to blot out somebody is totally ridiculous. And the longer this deal goes on about Prok being banned, the more ridiculous it is.

The rule that "if you're banned from the forums, you're banned from the game" basically means only that hardly ANYONE will ever be banned from the forums again. Which is worse for all of us.

That in itself is stupid. On top of that, having this one player standing in the corner is too ridiculous for words. Whoever else has been banned from the forums, I don't know who they are, but they may be long gone from SL by now. I can certainly think of more than a few who SHOULD have been banned from the forums if Prok was.

I wouldn't be in favor of having him come back, though, untill the rule mentioned above is rescinded. Then let him come back (though he probably wouldn't want to), and if he goofs up sufficiently in the forums, then he would lose forum privileges again, but NOT game privileges.

Even the idea of "goofs up in the forums" is a total complete joke. I have been called thingshere that would make my husband beat up the guy irl (I'm not big enough to myself), yet it CONTINUES. It STANDS there. You know what that makes this place for me?

It makes it a place where no lady belongs. Now I can listen to the f-word till kingdom comes, with no problem. (Even use it myself irl.) But being CALLED horrible things - that's abominable.

On the basis of that alone, these forums suck worse than anyplace else on the internet I have ever been. If they weren't the official forums, you better believe I wouldn't still be here.

Now, given this, this business about what we can read and say - I can't get with a system that says it is perfectly ok for someone to say this to me:
-----------
"Forgot I have to put a disclaimer in everything 'This is not about Cocoanut Koala' Yah I deliberatly post cryptic things right after you post everywhere..

If you were a muppet it would be Beaker... why?

MEMEMEMEMMEMEMEMEMEMEMEMMEMEMEMEMMEMEMEME

If I were to say something about it I would use your flippin name - as I did in Hamlets blog where I suggested that chopping your fingers off would solve the problem of your constant whining.. note : I used your name in that....

Note suggesting a solution isn't 'threatening you with physical violence' funny how a self touted writer has such a problem with basic comprehension skills.. If I said 'I want to' 'I should' 'I am going to' -- nice try - go back to nailing yourself to that cross you self absorbed idiot.

Tard."
-------------

AND IT SITS THERE

and yet - I'm not supposed to be able to view a piece of text (yes, text, not just link and not just ideas) from somewhere else on the internet because it is from "a banned user"? That is TOTALLY RIDICULOUS.

Aimee, if I were you, I would be less obsessed with the total throttling of Prokefy Neva and more concerned with the civil treatment of the people still remaining on these forums. Because with people getting treated like I have as quoted above - and NOTHING IS DONE ABOUT IT - you get a very much lower standard of discourse for the forums, and NOT a civil place for civil people to be; surely you understand that?

Why don't you put your efforts to that? Because the way things are, nice people are run off, or refrain from posting, because these forums are worse than a dockside bar at 2 am. Only without a bartender or bouncers. All in the name of supposed free speech.

What a crock.

coco

But the problem is that when people discuss the banned, other people complain. Which is what the topic of the thread is about. Do you not see a problem with this at all? Wouldn't it be nice to have a discussion about this as Robin Linden suggested. Then we can have a guideline to go on?

Coco, I am sorry you are frustrated with the forums as it is. I have found it to be not as bad. I also would like some guidance on this particular subject.

Thanks Aimee for bring this up.

Yes - I didn't speak to it, I realize now, but there is a problem about such discussions veering off easily from ideas to the individual.

coco

P.S. I think Robin has already indicated the guideline, which is - do not ferry text - but put links and discuss the ideas all you like. Anything more censoring than that would be absurd.

Sometimes, when the ideas are presented with misinformation about the person, there is a problem that has to be clarified. The idea is not presented in a unbiased manner and therefore presents itself to discussions of the individual.

P.S. Robin also said to discuss it. (I never understand the purpose of P.S. in a post, can it not stand on it's on as a thought?)

Coco thanks for your input!

I certainly hear what you are saying about civil treatment. Last night was one of the first Linden meetings I have gone to in a LONG time without fearing snide remarks about my panties or accusations that I influenced the lindens to remove neg ratings, or demands that I reveal *PREEN* traffic...or whatever! I have got to tell you it was nice and I felt safe, encouraged to speak, and optimistic about future meetings.

Unfortunately the question of maintaining or enforcing civil treatment is very subjective. For example *I* have been accused of meting out malicious treatment to people. Do I really? How do we define that?

We have to choose our battles and the one I chose to discuss is, fortunately, less subjective. If you decide to open sincere and unbiased discussions about civil treatment in SL and on the forums, I am 100% behind you. This, however, is the issue I decided to run by the forums on this lazy friday afternoon

The P.S. is because I thought of something to add, and went back and edited the post. Otherwise it would comprise two posts.

coco

I'm glad you are on board with me about that, Aimee.

I have opened sincere and unbiased discussions about the SL forums, and you saw what that got me. Both you and Sebastian saw what that got me.

As for this particular issue, I think we are discussing what goes on on the SL forums. Where you should be feeling totally "safe."

cioco

Oh, I usually just add "Edited to add:"

We can't tell if the P.S. is part of the original or the edited version. But now we know.

I went to the meeting and Aimee gave me _shoes_.

It actually surprises me that LL allows any talk of the banned. Every other board I read has strong unwritten rules against it.

And I'll chime in that the idea of "banned from the forums, banned from the game" is dumb.

I'd prefer we don't have quoted text, puppet text, or links. I don't go cruising banned posters' blogs, and I really don't give a shit what they have to say. They were banned for a reason, and unless they've undergone some therapy or seriously personality-altering life experience, those reasons stand.

If others want to go seek out the drama and insult and outrage that was banned from here, that's their own business, but there's no reason to drag the turds back in here other than to stir the shit.