Gratz , SL is now a mob

Mob mentality isn't defined as just when alot of folks happen to come to the same logical conclusion. I formed my opinion upon learning what ahppened, and who was involved, not by how others reacted to it. And I'm sure many others did as well.

It's easy to throw the "mob" term around when alot of folks come to the same conclusion, but it really isn't accurate.

And as far as tragedy goes, those movies you listed were..umm..movies, and made to earn money. If the real-life event was going on, people would be horrified for the most part, not entertained.

And of course SL being crashed isn't in anyway near as important as personal injury or any sort of personal harm. It is, however, a really rotten thing to do, and the appropriate actions should be taken to make sure that the person responsible is punished.

I agree 100% and would say this is a good fella to make an example out of, but the reaction that got me wasn't wanting the person punished, but some 400 avatars getting booted from the game. the baby with the bathwater

maybe 99% of them are complete tools and deserve to be banned, but that 1% is still worth protecting.

my opinion.

Mine are all grown... *shrugs*

If it were only once or twice even, I'd probably agree. However, there have simply been way too many "accidents" by members of that particular group which is why people are getting pissed. In general, when you(or members of a group) piss off alot of people alot of times, you are going to wind up with a lynch mob out to get you(or your group in this case).

Well, that's to my point on making up meaningful polls...

I'd hope the 'almost as bad as murder' wasn't to be taken any more seriously as the 'neglecting the kids' choice.

However I'm constantly amazed by the number of people that see SL as only a game. Granted I'm new in THIS virtual world though I've been in them since the early days of UO. But from what I've read of LL and it's management the intent of SL is FAR from just a game or an entertainment world.

Personally I believe SL is the very beginnings of a general use virtual space. Granted that gamers were the first to take advantage of the engine and world LL created but that is beginning to change.

As RL-valued tasks start moving into SL then destructive actions like were taken by this guy will be viewed more an more as criminal actions...and criminal prosecution will result.

Once enough people's livelihoods are damaged things will change. I don't think we're all that far away from that time either. From what I can tell there are a few here that make a darn good RL living working inside SL...other than the Lindens.

Well..I agree that some had an extreme view of things, but when any online environment/game crashes, you always get folks screaming. However, I do judge folks by the company they keep. If it happened once or twice; some guy in a group turning out to be a friggin idiot and causing trouble, that's one thing. But when it happens as often as it does, to one particular group, logic dictates that the group itself could certainly be part of the problem, and since the actions of some of those group members after these incidents point toward them being amused or in favor of the incident, it really does add to the "that group is full of idiots" mentality. So I would think they have no one to blame but themselves.

If they really cared (instead of being proud and doing alot of giggling), those innocent, upstanding members of SL would dissassociate themselves from a group that continues to garner bad opinions and hard feelings. But my guess is that many of them love the attention and mutually mentally masturbate each other anytime something like this happens.

Mulch, you confuse me to no end. You have stated "that was actually kind a joke..." yet are concerned with the poll results? People took the latest incident too seriously, but did not take your poll seriously enough?

Ok, over 100 people have voted, lets analyze the results as we see them now

the question was:

Is this really worth getting mad about.

I fibbed a little. Everyone who couldnt log in was at least mildly annoyed, so yes, I expected the results to be even higher for the mad part. 60%ish say this was something to get mad about

but breaking that down, about 1/3 want 400 avatars executed for this. My verbaige may seem harsh, but taking out 400 residents is a pretty extreme case. I expected more, but I can live with 31% wanting to get rid of everyone who uttered the dreaded W-Hat name

I am glad over 50% did not want them all terminated, but it still seems high and of the scorched earth mentality

25% said it was hardly worth getting angry or they didn't care. 25% were just able to let it go, while 31% want blood spilt beyond the first execution

25% also agreed that once the culprit was taken care of, this should be done

those are your main statistics. obviously, this is not a scientific survey and my margain of error would likely be greater than +/- 3%, but I think this is prolly as good as a representative sample as you are likely to get here, bias and all.

I wanted to know when I added this poll, who wanted them all to suffer, who wanted the one to suffer alone, and who didnt care either way (were not angered in the least or didnt care)

the others were, quite obviously joke entries, while still getting the yes no dont care statistic in

i am relieved that some people can put this event in what i consider a reasonable perspective. The poll is open ended, so anyone can load up the poll on all thier alts if they really want to screw W-Hat in the polls, but this post is burried so deep plenty of lurkers will vote before they get this far.



Ill leave the crazy descriptions of what this may actually be to others, but to me, and maybe to me only, SL is a GAME. It is simple entertainment for me, so I may not view the goings on with as much reverance as some. I apologize if ANYONE finds that offensive, but I don't come here to make money, I come here to be entertained.

LL calls SL a platform. it takes all kinds to make a "world". at least you know who the villains are. they want to play the part of the bad guy. most entertainers prefer the part of the bad guy. they entertain themselves. that is how they use this platform. this is 100% entertainment value to them.

the old phrase "call me anything but don't call me late for dinner" comes to mind here, because as long as they get their jollies, they are getting exactly the nutrition that they desire regardless of what you call them or think of them.

i would actually call the description "performance artist" spot on. Andy Kaufman was pretty good at making the audience the butt of his jokes (who were often left confused and bewildered and not even getting the joke until years later, if ever), and he was called a performance artist. that is precisely what they are doing, getting their yucks at the expense of the audience while snickering on another forum about how uptight everyone is here



I would agree with this statement 100%

like i said, i fibbed a little. the question was not related to the results i was examining. standard placebo type effect

I knew overwelmingly people would be angered by this event. that was a no brainer, it was a dummy question

the key answers I personally was looking at, were how many people were angered to the point of deleting 400 possibly innocent residents over it, how many were angered but could move on, and how many were unaffected. regardless of the other numbers, i see about an even split in thirds on the results i was actually looking at

but , no offense intended, I don't really care if anyone takes me or my poll seriously. I was curious about something and I used the forum tools to get a small sample of forum peoples opinions, and I got that, and as this poll is open ended, i will eventually get more.

And if anyone here reads a 60+ post thread before voting in a poll, please let me know now.

I am fairly comfortable my analysis wont skew the data this far along in the thread, and even if it did, I was expecting to do a prelim reading at about 100 anyway.

No, SL is a virtual space engine. You come to SL to be entertained. Good. Others actually make a living in SL and apparently some make a quite good living here.

The point I'm trying to make is that SL is not a game...it's a virtual space where you come to do what you want to do.

If there is little of RL-value in SL then your opinion of these events looks quite different that to those that have significant RL-value in this place.

But I maintain that I do not, from everything I'v read about LL and their management, believe that SL is soley intended as a game. That is YOUR value assigned to it...not it's intrinsic value.

i agree

but i phrased it as "to me, and maybe to me only, SL is a GAME" to isolate my views.

but here is the problem with lynching the entire W-Hat:

"The point I'm trying to make is that SL is not a game...it's a virtual space where you come to do what you want to do. "

they want to fuck with people. that is the choice they make being here. that is how they are using their space.

if they come on your space, report them. if they crash the grid, get rid of them

but if they sit on their own stoop aborting babies, re-enacting 9/11, or eating watermelon and col sanders, they have every right to enjoy their virtual space the way they want to, even if everyone else hates it

they break the rules, make them pay the price, but up to that point they have every right to be as vulgar and disgusting and offensive as the TOS and community standards allow.

I don't have kids. I did spend time with my dog tho. But eh, that's sorta limited, 3 hours of holding a bone for her does get a bit wearying.

The people who PAID to go see Kaufman knew what they were paying for. Just as those who go see Gallagher know they may walk out with smashed fruit on their faces and clothes.

Completely. Invalid. Analogy.

I do not pay LL to be harassed by some young adults who have problems adjusting to adulthood because VCRs and Nintendo were substituted for mommy and daddy.

Mulch,

You are taking this poll too seriously. Alot of people that dont care wont take the poll. You already had your opinion and just made a poll that you knew would after the very least semi support your stance. So some people want the entire group banned... Okay. Whats the problem? Arnt they just as entitled to their opinions as the w-hats are? We all state our opinion and LL ultimately makes the call. And on top of it all you are taking the poll at the worst moment. Do this same poll a few weeks from now and see the results. Odds are they wont be so harsh. (Assuming the w-hats dont do it again) Either way I feel you are inflating the 'mob' out of proportion than what it really is.

can someone summarize this thread

While understandable your points that we should just move on are misplaced. The type of person that would perform an attack on an entire (business) game system, Note i did say business as many people other than Linden Labs make money from this service, would also be the type of person that would attack a bank computer system, hospital records system or even our military's computer system. The mentality that people are free to do what they want to further their aims without reguard to the damage that occurs is becoming all to prevalent in society today.

I agree with your contention that we should not become criminals ourselves to stop this activity. I do however feel that it is essential that we do stop these individuals; and stop them cold. The law does not differentiate in the attack on a networked computer system as to whether the computer was a bank, hospital, military or even a gaming system. The law is clear that ALL are an equal violation and the only difference is in the amount of monitary damage and/or whether a person was injured due to the event. California penal code 502 states that this persons alleged activities would be considered a criminal event and could result in a minimum sentance of 16 months in prison and possibly a term of 2-3 years. They could also levy fines against the alleged perpetrator of up to $10,000. This is not a laughing matter, this is a crime and one that needs to be punished.

Further on the issue of this being a crime it is also a violation of federal laws and because this effects persons overseas it may also be an issue for interpol. Most law inforcement agencies, prosecuting attorneys and judges are not taking the slap on the wrist approach any more for persons commiting computer crimes. With more and more commerce being directed to the internet and various online markets the legal establishment is taking a more "zero" tolarance view and it is my belief that the person or persons involved in this attack should be given a first hand introduction to the legal system and the ramifications of their actions.

Sure.

We're all giving the term "angry mob" a bad name.

Ingrid just made me really pissed off. Also, I feel like congregating with like-minded individuals.

Yes... They have the right within TOS, Community Standards and ***THE LAW*** to do what they want in their space of the universe. However, their rights end when it infringes upon my rights. I have the right to say what I want or call whom ever anything I want. so long as that does not rise to the level of slander, libel or assault also so long as I am not standing out side your window with a bullhorn saying it at 2 am in the morning.

In most cases of someone doing something I don't like or approve of I take a live and let live attitude but the recent activities discribed in the forums and the activity of 10/23/05 rise well above free speech or expression to the level of at MINIMUM criminal mischief if not an out and out intentional and malicious attack on the users of the service known as Second Life. Makeing them pay the price is exactly what most persons are calling for, they are calling for LL and SL to take a legal stance that this was an attempt to disrupt or distroy their networking infrastructure and that LL and SL should both prosecute criminally and seek civil relief for the damages incurred.

If one thinks that this event did not cause damage, you are deluding yourself. I am the IT manager for several depatments in a major university and if an event like this occured with our systems it would require AT minimum myself and the assistant manager to return to the office on overtime at over $60+ per hour on top of that there would probably be the need to call in infrastructure people from the university at over $50 per person per hour. Our opperation in my building is only a couple hundred people where LL and SL have thousands if not tens of thousands. I am just floating a guestimate of $2700 for this incident figuring overtime at 1.5 times normal pay and an avg pay rate or $20 per hour for 10 people for 6 hours to fully clean up the mess and I am willing to bet that my numbers are VERY low compared to the actuall numbers expended. Add those numbers to the numbers caused by lost sales for the vendors and businesses in SL and you could easily get the number to be over $10,000 if not much much higher.

So in summary the perpetrators of this act should be made to pay restitution to LL and SL for their acts and should be made to spend several years in prision contemplating their behavior and why it is bad for society as a whole. Once released from prision as a condition of their release they should be PERMABANNED from ever touching annother computer for the remainder of their natural lives or even opperating a touchtone phone.

KDL

This nuisance is one that likes negative attention. If you want to effectively target the group, one will have to make its more established community members desire to abandon it because the association with the groups (W-hat has more than one) is causing them prestige and money.

If you REALLY want to do something about W-hat, boycot the stores of its members. Do not buy things or land from people belonging to the group or any of the related groups (see what groups the members belong to again and again).

W-hatters will not get their feelings hurt at all from people crying loudly that "they annoy us" or even really harm us (and several designers lost work during that unexpected outage, so there was more lost in profits than a few hours of shopper expenditures). W-hatters may begin to abandon ship, however, when being part of W-hat means losing money and respect from the broader community.

You do realize that your poll is extremely far from being scientific, right?

To put it short, it's felony vandalism.

If interested, the perpetrator(s) can research their potential penalties in any Penal Code book.

...and yes I do believe it involves jail time.

That would be tragic, and as such, quite entertaining for the OP.

three things

1.The state won't ever extradite a person that commits a petty crime over the internet in another state or country . It jsut doen't happen, money is too short forpetty crap like that.. LL won't go to the HOME state of said person, unless it relitively close, to press cahrges, because that costs money, that doesn't NOT count toward the federal limit.

2. The Feds won't touch an case that results in less then 5000 dollars direct damage to each party involed. In other words even if they casue 2 billion in losses, if they cause NO ONE individually 5000 or more, then they won't bother working on the charges. I know this becuase I wanted to get someone that totally destoyed my message baord via hacking hotmail. even if it does getinto seriuos money, if the tria lis cold, the trial is cold. So basically uless you are a REAL persistant or Extragavant trouble maker, the feds don't care.

3. Interpol. Don't make me laugh, I've NEVER seen interpol work in the US for one, and for 2 they do NOT HAVE TIME or MONEY to go after spamming hacker idiots. If the perpetrator comes out of Europe,and causes lots of damage, they might go after them, other wise, forget it.

Actually this was frequently wrong. Often people would pay to see Tony Clifton, who they thought was Andy in disguise, but it would actually be his partner instead. Others didn't know Tony was just a hoax and thought he was just some lounge singer.

Same thing with Joey Skaggs.