What is a Public Figure?

Take some Midol.

If you're careful with the land editing tools and don't drop any patch too far you won't create a vortex.

Holy @%$&! Chip Midnight gets 1,840,000 results. 99% of those must be for the Cincinnati based rock reviewer of the same name.

Anyway, this is an interesting discussion. I personally don't think that anyone in SL can be a public figure. SL isn't open to the public. I also don't believe that simply being interviewed by a publication, no matter how large, turns you into one. If a TV news reporter who's on television five nights a week doesn't qualify, no one here does either. We are all due equal protection according to the TOS, no matter how well known or unknown we are. As for real law, I yield to Jake since he seems to actually know what he's talking about, but it all seems rather arbitrary to me.

These are good questions Gabe, and the answer is not at all certain. Part of it is because forums are not exactly the same as publiching in a news paper, but nore are they the same aas a telephone call. The court will consider the facts and expectations of the individuals involved in the conversation. The aswer is always a resounding maybe. Chances are that limited participation in even the most public of debates will not make you a public figure, but being the wealthies person in town and complaining bout WalMart mgiht. Or regularly advocating against WalMArt might. But the focus is going to be in part on the expectations of the person who is allegedly defaming you.

*dances by in top hat, tie and cane, singing*

Hello, my baby, hello, my honey, hello, my ragtime gaaaaalllll,
Send me a kiss by wire, baby my heart's on fire!
If you refuse me, honey, you'll lose me, then you'll be left alone;
Oh, baby, telephone, and tell me I'm your ooooown. o/`

You know, it's a shame that these things go to court before a judgement is made on one's "Public Figure" status. Wouldn't it be nice if there was an office, maybe next to the DMV, where you could bring in your bio and press coverage. If you are deemed a "public figure," "limited public figure," or "nobody" you get a lapelle pin and a certificate for your wall.

I would wear mine to parties

"HI! I'm a public figure! Nice to meet you!"

Just a gentle reminder to please stay on topic and not post flaming or spamming posts to the SL Forums, appropriate Forum Guideline copied below:

The use of a pseudonym -- in this case, your SL name -- doesn't make you a non-person. "Coco" and "Cubey" are not fictitious characters: there's still a very real person behind the keyboard.

Well, I didn't mean WE don't exist. I meant, we are not named. We exist only as our characters/pseudonyms. Names which, moreover, we could change tomorrow if we wanted to.

That fact makes it almost impossible to conduct some sort of lawsuit. Although I'm planning to defame Jake so he can do a test trial with it, lol.

coco

Impossible right up to the point my lawyer subpeona's LL for your RL info.


(Not that I have a lawyer, or intend to subpeona, but no one here is as anonymous as you'd think, unless you stole your credit card. If that is so, then some people who don't smile a lot and carry badges would like to have a discussion with you.)

But, tell me, who else (besides me, I guess) who some consider a "forum troll" had posted when Weedy made that comment.

Weedy, nice attempt to derail the topic.

All I see when I hear this is the scene at the end of spaceballs where the alien pops out of Richard Hurt's chest.

I'm not saying it is impossible to find out your real identity- of course it isn't.

I'm saying that the entity being libeled (or whatever) is not an actual real life individual, but an avatar, who is being libeled in a specific environment consisting specifically, and necessarily (i.e., you have no choice), of fictitious names. The behavior that you are objecting to (the libel) is also limited to the specific environment, which is filled with fictitious individuals, and is being perpetrated by fictitious individuals on fictitious individuals. In a fictitious environment.

It would be hard for me to maintain that I am being libeled irl because my fictitious alter ego has been libeled in a particular fictitious society/environment - even, for example, by being lengthily and loudly and falsely accused of being the alt of some other person - when the "I" in the environment in question is actually an entity named Cocoanut Koala. Cocoanut Koala doesn't exist in the real world. A real world court of law might well ask, "Well, then, why didn't you just change your name?"

So when you libel Cocoanut, or even make false statements that the avatar Cocoanut represents someone else entirely and doesn't represent a separate person, you are still discussing what are basically cartoon characters who exist only in a specialized cartoon environment. This is what I realized - frustratingly so - at the time when I was threatening to sue people for continuing to say I didn't exist.

That's why I think these matters have to come first, foremost, and almost always under the TOS and LL jurisdiction. If any real life suing is to be done, it would be marginally more reasonable and possibly more likely successful to sue LL for allowing such things to go on within their borders and under their watch, particularly if their own TOS promises protection from such things. And none of us wants to do that.

coco

I strongly disagree with you here. We're not discussing fictitious individuals. Our SL names are not the same as a character in a movie or book.

Our SL name is simply another name for the real person behind the keyboard. "Coco" is you with a pseudonym, rather than a fictitious person, in the same way that "Mark Twain" was to Samuel Clemens. Would you say that the writer "Mark Twain" didn't exist? I think he would have differed.

More examples brought up earlier:
* Jerry MacGuire is a fictitious person, because the actor, Tom Cruise (if that's even his real name) played someone else.
* Woody Allen is real person (Allen Stewart Konigsberg) but operates under a pseudonym.
* Cubey Terra is a real person (name witheld for obvious reasons) but operates under one or more pseudonyms.

Furthermore, is SL really a "fictitious environment"? Is the world wide web a "fictitious environment" simply because it exists only on the screen? I think Amazon.com would disagree.

If I write a blog under the name "Joe Blogger", does that make both me and my blog, fictitious? Nope. I'd be a real person writing about real things on the web, regardless of the name I adopted.

Ahaha, I think someone is confusing fame with being a pawn of Linden Lab.

I think a main difference lies in the fact that quite a few SL residents are here roleplaying, even though it isn't promoted, neccessarily, as a roleplaying game.

If I claim a certain player-character (PC) in a roleplaying game is an evil bastard, I'm not calling the player of that PC an evil bastard.

Yeah, and it isn't the OP.

Well, you might have a point, when the time is right for it, though. I don't think right now the time is right for it; maybe some day in the not-too-soon future. Right now, I think the judge would just tell you to change your fictitious name.

coco

On the other hand, roleplayers are generally quite clear that they are roleplaying. (I also don't necessarily buy the "but I'm just playing my character!" line of argument, but this comes from a long experience of disruptive players in tabletop RPGs that then say "but I was just playing my character!" after ruining the fun of everyone else.)

I've had the same experiences in RPGs. However, there are people on this very forum that claim even the opinions they post aren't their own. They claim to be doing it for one reason or another, whether it be playing Devil's Advocate, or just trolling, it does amount to roleplaying, even though they claim they don't roleplay. They are playing a role.

Roleplaying doesn't have to mean playing a supernatural creature or someone from a different game genre, it can mean someone who is playing someone mundane, other than who they actually are. If people actually admitted to that, there would be far fewer men in SL claiming to be female lesbians, so no, I don't think anywhere near a majority admit to roleplaying when they're doing it.

Soooo...

What I'm seeing here is that while it is impossible to lible/slander a user's avatar...

Since we own everything in SL we create, then we own our own name in SL. This name, while not a legal name like a corperation or personal name, is actually a TRADEMARK then...

You CAN hit them for trademark restrictions then. Think of it this way: What would Darnsey Corperation do if someone began selling Mikey the Mouse porn publicly?

And quote:

WHEN CAN I USE ANOTHER’S TRADEMARK WITHOUT THEIR CONSENT?

As a general matter, it is advisable to obtain the consent of a trademark owner before proceeding with use of their mark. Trademark law, however, does permit the use of another’s mark (whether registered or unregistered) without their consent if the use of the mark is made in good faith for the purpose of merely describing the goods or services to which the mark relates or to accurately indicate compatibility with another’s goods or services. Relevant considerations for determining whether use of another ’s mark constitutes “fair use” include, but are not necessarily limited to, the following:

Bad faith. Intentionally using another’s mark for the purpose of benefiting from the good will associated with the mark is not a permissible use of another person’s mark without their consent.

How the mark is used. Use of another person’s mark should not be made for the purpose of promoting one’s own goods or services without their consent. Visual placement and prominence of the other mark can bear upon whether use of another’s mark may be construed as being for one’s own promotional purposes.

Confusion by consumers. Some uses of another’s mark can suggest sponsorship or endorsement by the mark’s owner and can confuse consumers into believing that there is an association between you and the owner of the mark. This is not a permissible use of another’s mark without their consent.


Any thoughts?

As a loooongtime Game Master, I have to tell you:

Nail.
Head.
Done.

Rumors of his non-existence have been greatly exaggerated. (Someone had to say it).

Personally, I'd be all for doing away with pseudonyms entirely and give people the option of using their real info. I'd certainly be happier entering into a contract or agreement with a real person, and in some ways I resent the layer of abstraction between my SL accomplishments and myself.

Unless you could prove specifically that the people stating that they thought you were an alt of someone else did not genuinely believe that, and were simply saying it to harm you while knowing your actual identity, you would have a very difficult time - as malicious intent is a big part of libel. Also, i don't think you would fall under the public figure claim - very few people in SL actually would, and it takes having a public presence beyond the private walls of SL and the SL forums that would qualify. The claim of "public figure" protection is quite overused as a justification to bash someone with impunity.

Dammit, guys. I leave town for a little while and then you go and have this awesomely funny drama thread without me. wtf.

Simply hilarious stuff. I mean, I'm sorry it didn't get the purity Aimee might have liked, but in lieu of rational discussion, I'll always take unexpected, hysterical ramblings surrounded surprised yet indulgent response.

btw, Chicago pizza is fucking amazing.