Voice Disapproval at the Convention

Amen! Remember everyone, the Convention was made for a place to share ideas, thoughts, opinions, with the LL in the lab, and to come together. We can possibly ask the question "why are you closing the forums, what are you planning on replacing it with" at the convention, with those very same persons in the room. You can even *gasp* get together with other residents and see if you can help provide any input into what a replacement for it will be that's Resident Run.

Remember, like most things in SL, it is relied on us, and not on stretching the man-power or resources of LL for items that they may not deem important. And remember, a good portion of what you do through the forums, you can also do through many other avenues LIKE classified, LIKE SLBoutique and SLExchange, LIKE MM, LIKE making your own blog, etc.

I implore you, not to use this decision as an excuse to boycott the event, rather, use it as an opportunity to discuss the changes, reason for the changes, and alternatives that can grow from it.

How did this go over?

I believe everyone agreed that a positive discussion would serve better than a bronx cheer.

Since I didn't attend, let me ask generally, was there anyone who attended the convention who discussed their disapproval with shutting down the forums? I know that there are a few displays in Burning Life that plan to make a statement. I'm interested too in the results, if any that came from the discussions.

Didn't happen. I heard there was someone trying to get this to happen, I also heard there were others making sure to start applauding as soon as they came on stage.

In any case, there was no booing, it's far harder to do that in person, to someone's face, rather than through the facelessness of an internet connection.

There were some questions on the closure of the forums. I think the gist of Philip's response was that there are many many communication channels open to the Lindens, that those channels are increasing rather than decreasing, and that the forums were not worth it for the resources needed to maintain them and the general negativity of the tone.

In otherwords... the people who want the forums open... who were there.. are lacking in the sac dept?

Dunno why folks say 'its harder to do in person' because really its not.

You beleive what you beleive, and you do what you do irrespective of who's in front of you or who doesn't agree...

Or maybe I'm in the sac swinging minority...

Then again - I'm also glad they're closing.

It is for most people. It's a corollary of the Greater Internet Fuckwad Theory. Besides, as was pointed out many times, being a jerk and making a scene is worse than doing nothing for one's cause.

I have a feeling most of the discussions went on in private conversations. Philip talked with Flipper and myself about it one of the days we were working on SLCC stuff at LL. He is very approachable, so I am sure that he probably answered a lot of questions about the forum closure and such in passing as well.

I for one forward a sock puppet theory in a necromancy thread.

i think the lindens should give the fourms to everyoneee

So, what did he say?

These private discussions are all very well and good for those who are in on them (within one degree of Philip), but the rest of us unwashed masses don't benefit much from them.

Did he say anything different from what was reported a couple of posts above?

coco

I'd have to go back and read them.

One thing he assured was that there would be more communication tools implemented for better and more direct means of communication with the Lindens.

And in that statement is the issue at hand. He obviosly views this as only about the Linden communications. I think the point he is missing is that this forum is not JUST about the Lindens. Blogs are.. they have that for thier "look what I can do" statements. This forum is not only about communication with Lindens.. it is about a place for RESIDENTS to communicate with each other in a organized and centralized location. Learning, educating, meeting and even pissing off each other. THAT is the side of this that is being shoved away.

Yes, LL gets feedback they often use and some they often don't wish to hear but that is not the only thing this fourm is all about. Of course it is only the resident conversation areas and resident utilized classified sections that are being axed.

Off to a great start so far, eh?

/sarcasm

personally, there were many moments when i wanted to approach one Linden or another about the closure of the forums, but when they are engaged in conversation with someone else.. or busy just relaxing.. i felt it would have been inappropriate and most likely would have garnered a negative response, regardless of my tact.

that being said, i did bring it up in a couple of instances. for one, during a content creation conversation (say that 5 times fast! ) in the SL Views panel, i brought up what the effectiveness is of the forums to connect with the community about products/services.. or even announcements for such things as the Suzanne Vega and Kurt Vonnegut appearances.

during one of the main panel discussions, they were asking the audience about how many people used in-world classifieds, newpaper (such as Metaverse Messenger) ads, etc.. what hadn't been asked was how many people find out about products (et al) via the forums, so i mentioned this to whoever had been within earshot (that was on-stage) and they, in turn, asked the audience.

...i think 25% - 33% of them raised their hands.


now, they did address the situation a bit as mentioned earlier in this thread. they are trying to find other avenues of communication, but the dynamic of the forums is not replicable in my view. not even by way of third-party sites.

hopefully something can be done that will acheive a solution that will be advantageous to us all, Lindens and Resis alike.

Fat lot of good that does for those of us who rarely even need to talk to the Lindens.

The negativity on the forums could be addressed, directly, but they don't. The resources it takes the manage a forum site...them saying it's "too much work" is probably one of the most rediculous things I've ever read.
There isn't a single MMO environment with a reasonable sized player base that does not have a forum.
EQ, WoW, AO ect...all have forums. I'm not trying to compare SL to those games. What I am comparing is the that those games, some of which have communities larger than SL, have had active forums for years with no sign of them ever closing. And I know from experience those forums have had FAR GREATER negativity spewed onto them than on these forums.

My point being: LL can't handle the job? This does not inspire confidence as a resident. Does it for you?
I have personally managed a forum site single handedly. Granted, it did not have the mass of users this site must have for it to be so overwhelming for LL. :/

And frankly, with some decisions made by LL in recent memory, I'm not so sure more "direct lines of communication" to LL is what I personally want or need.

They opened the registration policy requiring abolutely no credit card to register. Was the community asked about that? Did we have a say in wether or not that occured? No. And now the grid is flooded with countless froobs, a lot of which have been griefer-types who just recycle themselves into an alt every time they get banned from a person's property or establishment.
This has rendered a business owners ability to police their own property next to impossible. You ban a griefer once, they just come back on an alt and often enough, bring their possee of trouble makers on your head as well.

So are the Linden's going to be more "directly available" to address those issues when they arise? Issues they themselves have indirectly created? I doubt it. I'm certainly not holding my breath there. And I'm personally just fed up with the whole discussion.
As they say, talk is cheap. And actions speak louder than words. And I feel, frankly, that LL's actions over the past couple of months only show how little they actually care about their "community".

I don't forsee SL being very "communal" for much longer.

No, it doesn't. And also I don't think of Linden Labs as being unable to handle it or over worked to the point of not being able to. I think again about the good 'ol "Tao Of Linden" and think of people saying "I dont WANT to do this anymore." One in particular really surprises me because if you take away thier ability to be a mediator between LL and us it would appear they are missing thier calling.




Bug reports, feature suggestions and tech and billing issues. What more direct communication is needed? Those avenues have all been available for a long time. Maybe they are gonna do a adopt a resident program and pull us aside one by one and talk about our hobbies, dreams and favorite songs? Not very likely.


None whatsoever. And of course the objections were met with deaf ears. Hard to hear your residents out when you are more worried about milking the next cash cow then taking care of the producers in the stall.



Did you file an AR report? Those are really effective you know.



When there is not a medium they are forced to pay attention to like thier official forum you can bet that there wont be any "issues". It will be just you that is having that problem. No way to verify if anyone else is.


I guess everyone is feeling the love.
Sadly this is another post that will go unanswered by the system. Yep, it is now the system. The Platform is feeling a helluva lot more like a game everyday.

rescinded.

And exactly what actions would YOU take to address the negativity on the forums?

I certainly wouldn't cure the cancer by killing the patient.

Frankly, I'd rather see the negativity in the forums than in the game. I'm not going to call it a platform as that's what politicians campaign from. Wait.. it is a platform then. Darn it.

It's just... *sigh* I have little faith in what the Lindens are doing now. The ways we have of communcating with them currently is just fine. I can AR if I have a small problem with an idiot, get on Live Help if I'm on Linden Lands, call them for other issues or email them. I can chat with them in world if I want, but why would I want to unless I have a problem? It's not THEM I want to chat with. It's my fellow players. The forum is just one more way I can do that.

The grid is just too far flung for me to be able to chat with half of the people I respond to here. Here is also where I learned that it's okay to wind up with the box on your head. Here is where I learned where to look for those things that would help me build and texture my own products. Here is where I learned what NOT to do about various issues. And here is where I look first when I have an issue that the ignorant knowledge base can't answer. "Wow, that idiot cube singing Fresh Prince isn't just me?! Oh, thank goodness!" This being the prime example.

You can't get that in a blog, especially not one where we can't start our own posts. Of course, if we could, then it'd be a forum, thus defeating the purpose of closing the forums. No way are the group 'channels' gonna give us the wide taste of SL life that goes on around us. And besides, we can't access them unless we're in game.

*blehs* Sorry for the rant. I'm tired and probably shouldn't be posting, but...

More direct lines of communication to the Lindens definately isn't what we really need. If anything, those would just become more ways for the Lindens to put us on hold and make us listen to muzak for the rest of our SL lives. Philip's idea simply won't work, since we already have enough problems with the lines of Linden communications as it is. Live Help has so far been the best way to get some answers.. and the occasional Linden Liason. Everything else gets pretty much ignored.

Of course not!

It's more humane to run up insurmountable medical bills and watch someone wither away in pain and agony day after day, than it would be to let them pass away (illegally) deliberately and with some dignity.

The forums may have a 'life' of their own...
but are they as valuable as a human life?

--
On Chemo, on Scalpel, on Radiology,
on Radical Diet, Oncological Treatment...
to the top of the hill,
to the top of the wall,
none will be ill,
we'll cure them all.
(if only )

Uh, are we still talking about the forums?

iron fist

hippy love

either way i wouldnt take it away admiting defeat, i would be so damn hard or so freakin sweet the problem areas would be snuffed ... but i never heard back from my application

(nothing like a bi-polar sysop to freak trolls out, but maby thats why my 10+ mmo clan forums have verry little issue with the average user being 13-26 mostly male)

Fascinating. Thanks for the information!