Church Services (upcoming event) and some thoughts on it

Could have fooled me. Why then did you post what you did yet when confronted with your actions attempt to step aside without addressing my issues?

That is a good idea. You should have done that to begin with.

Now you are just picking a fight and I will not respond in the spirit of actually being constructive.

I will await your answer once again as for me to continue being involved I require one from the leader of this project. I will refrain from any further involvement until you do so. You made a post that was not only directed at me but was offensive. I simply can not follow a leader who feels opinions other than hers should not be heard. Since you have completely disregarded what I said I will repost the issues here for your ease.


If you chose to not respond to me once again I will consider it to mean you stand by what you said. And if so, I wish y’all luck in what you are doing but my involvement is completed.

Gwyneth, TY for your open mindedness and willingness to hear the opinions of others without letting preconceived notions or bias get in the way. Once again, you prove your worthiness to lead this aspect of the projekt. You are on the right track and if indeed Ulrika stands by her post I wish you nothing but the best.

Peace, Billy. I'm stubborn in my open-mindedness, and open-minded in my stubborness. This sometimes gives unexpected results.

I'd still like a meeting inworld and a suggestion of the best time for it. I usually am online every day from 1 PM PST to 5 PM PST, more or the less. I can also log in almost every day at around midnight PST for one or two hours (depending on how late I'm online the previous night ). Weekends are much harder to give a precise time (hehe I do not control my own weekend time ) but I expect that I'll be available during Sunday from midnight PST up to 5 PM PST or so.

Sorry for the crazy hours. Living in GMT is tough

Well, as I said before, I am very interested in how we will resolve the tension between our inclusive intentions and the exclusive nature of some religious sects. This could be historic

Here's something I'd like everyone to simply think about for a bit, before replying. What if the meetings were patterned after the Quaker unprogrammed meeting model? There would be no "sermon" or doctrine or dogma. There would be no official statement by clergy at all. People would sit quietly together - perhaps for 5 - 15 minutes and pray silently, or meditate, or listen for God, or whatever your sect is refreshed by. At the end, Gwyneth (or the meeting leader) would rise and thank everyone for coming in a non-denominational way.

I think this would work online for several reasons. One of which is that there is no attempt to water spirituality down to please everyone. People can bring as much passion - and whatever doctrine - as they like. The true Quaker model is a bit more complex, including the expectation that some would be moved by God to speak, and lasts a good bit longer, but this would not be a Quaker Meeting in reality, or even virtually. Which brings me to another selling point: this would not be an attempt to mimic any other religious ritual in real life. It would also not be the creation of a new religion. And, hopefully, it would reinforce two universal aspects of all religions: community and personal spirituality. It has the added feature of both accommodating worship - for those of us who do worship - and the more meditative process that can bring benefit to even the atheists among us.

Perhaps we could start with this blank - yet still refreshing and rewarding - slate, and build whatever other delicate decorations we like on top of it?

What do you think, Billy? Gwyneth? Folks?

Hmm, this would be almost a non-meeting

I'm intrigued, I never organized a meditation event myself. I would certainly need to think about it.

Yo? Billy?

Have you read my above proposal?

Would it be a satisfactory starting place?

Just trying to guage how far apart everyone is.

BTW, I did already meet a reverend in-world! We just exchanged a few pleasant words, but he was very intrigued about the Projekt including a church, and I will certainly try to have him as a "RL priest" providing proper services.

I'll be talking inworld to a theology student later today, and see if she has any helpful contacts as well...

Yes Kathy I did read it. I appreciate your desire to find some middle ground on this but I am afraid that my involvement will go no further. I am truly sorry as I am interested in this project and in particular this aspect of it but Ulrika has made her position perfectly clear.

I came aboard thinking that she was interested in diversity and would put aside bias and partisanship in the name of doing something that transcends such prejudices but I can see that I was wrong. I am sure you have read the above posts so there is no need to paste them here. I simply cannot and will not follow a leader who is not interested in hearing any voice except those that agree with her opinion therefore I wish you well but withdraw my support.

I am sure that you and Gwyneth will be able to work out something out but I will answer your question in attempt to help the two of you one last time. I like what you had to say but I look at the church as kind of a non-denominational building available to all faiths to worship in their own way. Your idea of meditation will be a very nice way for people of all faiths to pray/meditate together in a non-threatening way. There may be other ways to hold similar services/meetings and I think that is a nice thing to strive for.

I do want to address your first sentence too. You state that you are “very interested in how we will resolve the tension between our inclusive intentions and the exclusive nature of some religious sects.”. I want to make my position clear. It is not that religions are specifically exclusive in nature. It is that practically every religion has very specific beliefs within their denomination. Theologically speaking they would not attend services where doctrine was taught that was in conflict to those specific beliefs. It is not that they would kick out or ostracize anyone that wanted to come their service it is simply that they could not or at least would not want to attend other services because it would be against their religious beliefs.

Also Christianity as I know it is not “ultra exclusive” or exclusive at all for that matter. The doors of my church for example are open to anyone regardless of their race, sexual orientation, religion or anything else. We welcome anyone to attend our services with open arms so I am sorry if you got the impression that I thought we were exclusive at all. That being said there are specific beliefs that we do believe and the teachings that take place will reflect those beliefs.

I do also want to say that I should have been more specific when I offered my help as a resource to answer questions about Christianity. I should have said that I am a Methodist and that my knowledge is about that denomination. I in fact know very little about the Quakers as well as some other religions that may be Christian and I apologize for it looking like I was speaking for all Christians. That is not the case at all and I probably don’t even speak for all Methodists either… lol. I simply have allot of knowledge and interpret it the best I can.

Anyway good luck to you and Gwyneth. I am not very optimistic that the projekc will succeed unless it’s leaders becomes more open and accepting of opinions that are different from their own.

Oh, and that’s great you have met a minister already Gwynith. As a suggestion if he is interested in holding a service you should verify he is indeed a pastor of a real RW church. You can do this simply by asking him his real name and where he preaches. Then look up the number through information and call their office asking if he is in fact a minister there. Then speak to the minister verifying that it is in fact him you were talking to. I would not allow anyone without such verification to hold a formal service.

things only change when you stay involved to get them changed. Theres middle ground to be found everywhere Billy.

Talen, I have the utmost respect for you and Pendari and applaud what you are trying to do. I sympathize with your plight I just don't see it happening when your fearless leader is so unwilling to admit fault. I am afraid that this is a leftist project hidden under a veil of disseat.

I ask you respectfully, if this project is so diverse then where is the diversity coming from? All I see is a couple of moderates and the rest liberals. Honestly I hope for your sake I am wrong but I don't think so. Repeatedly Ulrika has undermined diversity in favor of her own personal agenda and will continue to do so.

you need to look harder then because you see only what you choose to see. I have no plight to sympathyize with Billy...we all came into this from diverse backgrounds and differnt ideas about government...I think you look hard enough you'll see this has progressed into much more than Ulrika originally outlined. Yes we fight here and there to get out point across and there has been compromise across the board from everyone of us. You can't hold fast to a certain ideal in order to get what you want....you have to do what you can and compromise.