Church Services (upcoming event) and some thoughts on it

Very happy....and very interested.

cool! contact me in world and we'll talk.

Phineas. Let me tell you a little bit about myself and the city to give context.

First, I am woefully ignorant about religion as I am a lifelong atheist, so I won't be able to engage you in an informed discussion on the subject. However, I understand and respect that some people find the belief in supernatural being(s) and the rituals which surrounds those being(s) to be quite fulfilling. Thus, I wanted to create a safe zone for religion within the city.

Why Unitarian? My personal sociopolitical ideology is in opposition to organizations which are inherently exclusionary. Religions which claim a segment of the population is unwelcome due to personal choices is very unappealing to me. In RL discussions on the topic, the Unitarian church was recommended to me as a progressive alternative which would fit my requirements for inclusion. So I chose Unitarian.


Absolutely. Yes. Well, sort of. They must be inclusive.

1. Our city is a modern city which mixes Medieval Bavarian architecture with post-modern minimalist architecture. The goal is to mix Medieval and modern themes.

2. You are absolutely correct.

3. You are absolutely correct.

If you can promise me that your services will focus on positive messages and be include all members of SL regardless of race, sex, creed, sexual orientation, and political affiliation, I will do for you what has never been done. I will alter the city plan. *crowd gasps* You must be willing to build it or hire someone to build it -- we have a very tight limit on prims so it will be difficult. When it's complete, I will give you full control over it and allow you to live in a house near the structure.

You have my email. Contact me and we'll work out the details of the church and its location in the city, if you are interested.

~Ulrika~

Hear, hear! I would love to have "ecumenical services" or "All Religions' Prayer Day" or something similar in Neualtenburg, where all religious people would be able to join for a common event - separately from each religion's own services, of course.

(BTW, I'm 1/4 Jew as well, if that counts for anything )

Hear, hear! I would love to have "ecumenical services" or "All Religions' Prayer Day" or something similar in Neualtenburg, where all religious people would be able to join for a common event - separately from each religion's own services, of course.

I still mantain that there should be extra care when "announcing" a religious event. Just make sure (and double sure) that your own religion allows you to perform that particular service, or stick to some events which are perfectly allowed to be organized by any member of your religion.

(BTW, I'm 1/4 Jew as well, if that counts for anything )

The proposed concept I have of a small synagogue and judentanzhaus --along with a small cemetary is to be built in District 6 West. All events to take place there are for the purpose of education about european jewish culture and of course fun!. Any services or events are open to all interested people. It is admittedly to be more biased towards the jewish culture and less so the religion --tho' if one would like to have services in the synagogue that would be cool

Why couldn't the Unitarian church serve as a place for all religions. Do we need to build more religous buildings when we already have a building dedicated to religion?

I would think that having many different reigous events there would still keep in the theme of a unitarian church.

Having a cultural center would be cool ...I think it would be great if instead of having a bunch of different cultural centers pop up maybe we could have one big one where anyone can have educational events or meetings on and about their cultures and or others cultures.

Rothenburg is chock full o' churches and I believe we had at least three planned for the city (one of them integrated into the city wall if I'm correct). Kendra, if Phineas jumps on this would you be amenable to allowing him to build a slightly larger authentic structure in the district? Let me know. Not many people are in charge of districts right now so we have plenty of places we could put it.

~Ulrika~

If Phineas likes --he can be team lead on District 6 West --and if he would like any help from me he's got it! The "church" in the wall --was what I had planned for the synagogue.

I already have Saint Martin's Parish Church in the Spital area --so thot a synagogue would be a nice touch -- maybe cribbing off the marvelous looking synagogue in Pragu, as the synagogue in Rothenburg is actually fairly boring looking from the outside.

That would have him building the Judentazhaus, a small synagogue, and whatever else he would like to add to that area. If you feel District 6 west is too close to the Cathedral --pick another place --but I personally think it would be great having it near the Cathedral.

District 6 West is perfect! Don't be afraid to make it big. We could use an architectural anchor in a dense part of the city.

~Ulrika~

I fail to see how this can be to be honest with you. How can you be “open” to “all” religious theories? There are basic issues that contradict themselves between the various religions. Some expmples that are black and white with no middle ground:
1. The trinity
2. Christ’s humanity as well as his divinity
3. Salvation
4. Perfection of the Bible / Koran or whatever book is used I.E. questioning what is written.
5. Nature’s role in divinity

There are many more. These issues are black and white for the different religions so I do not know how you can accept two opposing views. You either believe in the trinity or you don’t. There is no middle ground.

Whether you want to admit it or not, the Unitarian Church IS A RELIGION. You are accepting THEIR dialect as being ok for Neualtinburg while being opposed to Judaism for example. You are opposed to it because you are not allowing a Jewish service to take place while saying it is ok to have a Unitarian service.

This is not acceptable in a so called “free” society that is SUPPOSED to have the freedom to worship however you choose.

Billy --do you actually read the posts?

Billy, seriously, I would like to invite you to join and participate into the Thinkers' debates. The questions you deal with are exactly what the Thinkers' usually discuss every week, with more or less detail. Unfortunately, in the past weeks, our "resident theologist", Jinny Fonzarelli, has not been around (she has been ill in RL ). Her topics have always something to do about religion, and those provoking thoughts you have mentioned are much in the line of what she usually brings for discussion. And we have a pretty heterogeneous group, including many agnostics, atheists, paganists, all types of christians, muslims, a few jews, a taoist and a hinduist. So the discussions are very lively as you may expect!

As I said before, I will try to bring some of the Thinkers around for an event in Neualtenburg. Thinkers have their own HQ, but it's not unusual for them to do the events on other places.

I still think that theology discussions in this group are really not appropriate. I would love to have them inworld, however, and feel free to get in touch with me there! Or, if the moderators allow it, we could open a Theology Thread in the SL group, but again, I don't think it's appropriate.

Shameless plug aside, I fully agree with the idea of the Cultural Center proposed by Talen! My, I guarantee I'll have lots of events planned for that I was thinking of asking permission to host some discussion events at the Biergarten and call them Kaffee Klatsch in Neualtenburg. But I think Talen is right, it would be better to have one building designated for that purpose!

I appreciate that… TY

[/QUOTE]Even if I just have a theological answer for that, and not a practical one. Talen, I fully agree with your reply to Billy. It's exactly what I think as well. Let me try, for Billy's sake, to explain why I agree with you.

Technically, there is no "Unitarian doctrine" - there are just some basic rules, which allegedly all Unitarian churches adhere to. A belief in a God ("supreme being" or any other thing), [/QUOTE]

This alone precludes people who are athiests or perhape believe in more than one God.

[/QUOTE] a belief that Humanitarian behaviour is in some way tied to the Divine, [/QUOTE]

Again, this is not accepted among “ALL” religions. I know for one that it is NOT in Christianity.



Again, this is certainly NOT acceptable to “ALL” religions.



Ummm… ok… explain how you can incorporate two opposing views into one view? Example: Christ’s divinity. Some believe Christ was a Divine being, some believe he was only a human. Please explain how these two directly opposite views can be “incorporated” inside Unitarian views. I am interested in seeing how that works.



Sounds like a cop-out to me. If you are going to tell me that they believe in “everything” I submit that they in fact do not believe in anything. You basically admit here that the individual Unitarian churches in fact to have beliefs and decide on what they will be at the local level. You can’t believe in Christ and not believe in him at the same time.



I can’t say I agree. By preventing open worship from the other religions and forcing everyone to accept the Unitarian Church and it’s doctrine, even if it’s doctrine is to believe in everything, you are preventing my freedom to worship as a Christian in Neualtinburg. As a Christian, as I assume in almost every mainstream religion, there are certain things that I believe and others that I do not believe. Some of these beliefs are not flexable and do not have room for opposing views. I am quite sure almost every religion would agree from Christians to Muslims to Jews to Buddhism etc... Your unwillingness to have a Christian service precludes me from being able to worship in Neualtinburg as it should every Christian, Muslim etc… For people who really do believe and are educated as to what their religious doctrine is it would be blasphemous to actually worship as you have described. Furthermore, if what you are in fact attempting to do here is to create a completely new religion here I say that is a very dangerous thing.

As a Christian am I “tolerant” of other religions? Yes, of course, but I certainly do not accept any teachings that are contradictory to Christianity. I am very happy to live in a country where we are free to worship however we wish and support everyone’s right to do so but will not incorporate views that are not Christian into MY personal worship.



I do not agree that this is even possible. To do so would conflict the very beliefs of both religions and to worship in that way would be disgraceful.



Even in doing that you own religious beliefs are prejudice to your personal convictions. I would be happy to discuss your personal beliefs sometime in private but this is not an appropriate place.



I totally agree with you on this. That is a very strong reason not to even say you are Unitarian. I assume you are not a Unitarian Priest either. I’ll bet that there are indeed ordained preachers from different religions that play SL and if verified in RL then church services in the name of that religion would be acceptable.



Agreed



I had assumed this is what you were talking about in the first place and is in fact what I meant when I was referring to having a Christian service in the church. To pretend to be a Preacher, Priest, Minister or whatever would be offensive and a vile misrepresentation.



I would suggest that the church be open to all types of worship which will be scheduled in advance. All religions could be celebrated and allowed the religious freedom to worship within each of their religious belief system.

Obviously yes, do you?

I don't think you were being adressed anyway Kendra so why would you respond to me anyway? If it was only to be confrontational then fine.

Being someone very committed to my religion and interested in it’s roll in Neualtinburg I would like that. TY for the invitation.



Honestly, I am not interested in a theology thread as it would surely lead to much heated and unnecessary debate. I am however very interested in attending a Christian worship service in SL.


What kind of events will this “Cultural Center” have?

So… obviously you now endorse the Unitarian and Jewish faiths. What about everyone else?

Billy , first and foremost you are going to have to accept that we all come from different political and religous backgrounds. I see the city and the church accepting all faiths...if you wish to have a service at the church I dont think anyone will have a problem with that...likewise if a taoist , jewish, pagan, and or insert your religion here person wants to have a service or event that would be accepted as well.

As for a cultural center I would like to see how people live through thier different cultures, how they pray, how they survive. I'd like to think with such a diverse population that we can have some very educ ational events held there.

I don't think there should be any seperate churches ...but perhaps 3 open churches for various events of a religous nature that may fall at the same time.

I totally agree with the exception being that we should not formally be a Unitarian Church at all. Unless of course there is a Unitarian Minister available to run it.

I believe Gwen will be performing that role. But as I stated I think it would be fine to host an event of any religion as long as everyone knows that there is no set religion and all are respected.

I do accept that and do not know why you insinuate that I do not. Please explain yourself.



That is not what was said. Even you have a conflicting statement earlier in this thread.


Gwyneth agrees with you and she is the head of the church.





I obviously agree with you here with the exception that they do not HAVE to fall at the same time and in fact probably will not.

I do somewhat agree... but it certainly depends upon each situation and details of the type of event.

I think you have to be all in or not Billy.. it cant depend. W have to veiew all reigions without preconcieved notions and must respect each individuals religous convictions.

Because you're getting your undies in a wad over nothing. You want a specifically Christian ceremony and a place to have it? Who is stopping you?

I mentioned I was building a synagogue. I mentioned there's a perfectly good empty parish church called Saint Martins right in the middle of the Spital section, next to Rose Karuna's gorgeous greenhouse!

This is why I asked if you read the posts.

Would you like to hold services there? Go ahead --but if you exclude anyone interested from attending (unless they're a behaviour problem or something) than I would take serious issue.