Either No Huge Prims, or Huge Prims for Everyone

Whereas: Linden Labs has granted an exclusive and eternal monopoly to an avatar to sell huge, oversized prims (prims beyond the normal 10m size limit); and

Whereas: Either anyone should be able to make and sell these prims, or no one should; and

Whereas: Linden Labs should maintain an even playing field for content creators; and

Whereas: These prims were manufactured through an exploit which was then closed; and

Whereas: These prims may cause serious problems with sim stability; and

Whereas: Linden may not want to break existing content

It is proposed that one of the following remedies be employed by Linden Labs:

1) Linden Labs will not remove existing oversized prims in the world but will add server code so that new ones may not be rezzed -- content will be grandfathered; or

2) Linden Labs will remove all existing oversized prims; or

3) Linden Labs will provide the necessary tools (or re-implement the exploit) to allow any avatar to manufacture oversized prims.

I want to add that I have estimated the sales for these being sold on SLExchange (based on # of ratings and rank), and the avatar selling these has made several thousand dollars! Why is this fair? If it was some great build, cool script or nice skin, I can understand -- but to take someone else's prims built using an exploit, then make that much money? I protest.

Even the playing field.

Linden labs usually try not to break existing content, i can assume a few interesting builds have been made by responsible persons using these prims, the thing is, peoples are all but responsible here.
I can understand you actually wish you could use these large prims yourself and i can understand that not being able "for free" might infuriate you, but i don't see what is "even" or not in this matter.

Even the playing field related to what, SL isn't any kind of democracy you know, there are no rules that say things have to be "even"

Now if you really want these prims buy them for god's sake, and let's bet you will be the first one to whine out loud when LL on a whim decide they will patch it up, or allow it for everyone.

One person in SL can build a house for, say, 50 prims, and another can build an identical house for 20 prims -- both for sale. Now the competitive advantage goes to 20 prims.

This would be fair and reasonable if it were possible for both people to build that house for 20 prims, but suppose only one can because he used an exploit that was later removed.

So someone can do things another cannot, that is not fair. Either permit both access to the same tool (or re-open the exploit), or deny that to both. Linden is rewarding hackers and punishing the rest.

Level the playing field. Either everyone can do it, or no one.

Oh, and while Linden Labs is not a democracy it is clearly interested in commerce and enterprise -- and the basis of a successful capitalist environment is that those who play by the rules are on an even footing with each other, and those who don't can't enjoy the rewards.

I don't want a hand-out, just access to the same tools.

And BTW that you think I'll whine when LL does something about it is not an argument, it is misdirection and rhetoric.

these giant prims are stupid, and i dont intend to ever want prims that large, i dont care if some people get rich because some one wants to make a super size what ever, and i dont find it unfair that some one can sell them sl is not a contest for god sack, i say get over it, besides creating stuff from tiny prims is so much better.

It was my understanding that the giant prims could not be transferred, which would prevent the sale of a house made with them, wouldn't it? Or am I mistaken?

and probably quite accurate

it's important to remember that while they probably do *try* not to, LL does break content all the time. It's just a matter of which content they break and which they don't and possibly "who you know" as to whether it's your content that is broken or not.

It's sometimes necessary from LL's point of view to break content, and when they do its generally with a "well it's too bad but we really just had to" kind of attitude. The idea that they don't want to remove these hacked prims because someone has made some fantastic content in the short time they have been available is just a lot of hot air on their part.

- Recent changes to the mesh of the Torus have broken a great deal of my content and the change was done without notification.

- Recent changes have broken the "joint" to a large degree and they pretty much said already that it will be going for good sometime real soon.

- Recent changes to the optimisation of the server stream have changed texturing offsets, effectively breaking any kind of complicated texturing projects done in the past.

We can only assume that some Linden or friend of Linden has made some compelling new content, because if it was just the crap that has been displayed on the forum by the hackers, griefers and neer-do-well's associated with the "SuperPrim Scam" they should remove all the prims yesterday.

The most likely explanation here is that it just never occurred to them that their generosity in letting the hackers keep their prims would lead to a big sale on the market of the prims themselves.

But then ignorance is never a great defense is it?

Full permission - copy, mod, transfer

http://www.slexchange.com/modules.php?name=Marketplace&file=item&ItemID=143569

Not sure I see the problem.

Huge prims are a risk, they may vanish entirely in any future update, days from now or longer.

Depending on them is foolish, which makes them more of a novelty.

It's like selling a preserved snake with two heads. Someone was lucky enough to find one and benefit from it. That doesn't necessarily mean it must be destroyed... or everyone has the right to force snakes to have mutant babies.

If both houses were identical, they would be the exact same number of prims.

Now, if two builders built simliar houses of the same design, I would not base my decision to purchase ONLY on the fact that one is 20 prims and the other is 50. Texturing, details, etc. are also factors.

well i think that over sized prims would be great IF they fixed the screwed physics that happen around them. they are only helpful for realy HUGE builds. for example. a arena where your are going to have long walls that will be the same texture and not brokem up. it would be nice to have 1 prim for say a 40M wall instead of 4. or say you are setting it in the sky and the 40X40 that is 16 prims for the floor but if you could have a 40X40 prim it would only be one saving you a considerable chunk of prims. 40X40M floor with a unified wall could be done in as little as 2 prims mor like 5 if the over sized prims were allowed but as it stand now you would need at least 36 prims for the floors and walls. that is alot of prims tho you count on that already

BTW thanks to the person who pointed out the free ones.

The point is this: LL should make the toolsets the same for everyone. They are not doing this by rewarding a hacker. Should we all seek exploits?

Level the playing field.

-_-

It would be unfortunate to do away with the huge prims, in the right hands they can be useful. However, as has been discussed in other threads, in the hands of malicious or ignorant types they can be 'massively' annoying.

Besides the playing field doesn't start level. Some can afford to buy land and 3rd party tools like poser, photoshop and sound editing software, and some can't. The inequity increases from there.

I'm not in favor of rewarding people that exploit bugs either... but there has to be a better way of dealing with this than banishing all huge prims or including them in every resident's library.

I wonder how the people that paid big bucks for a handful of locked prims feel now. As for what I'm doing with mine, it's cheesy but I'm turning a multigadget skybase into a portable rave, replacing the rez-source objects inside with my own. A giant targetomega, hollow, 1% transparent sphere with a texture on the inside, surrounding the entire base? You bet.

And I found a camera bug/feature. The large prims seem to be slightly lopsided. Focus the camera on the surface of a rotating 40^3 sphere, and move it in. The camera will bounce in and out. With the effects I already have on it it looks pretty nice.

I have no ideas to contribute as far as dealing with the existing giant prims, but I just want to point out that it pisses me off that someone is profiting from hacking the system and LL is fine with that.

I've got a set of the giant prims and, while interesting in themselves, they are of limited use. You're stuck with the size they are, all you can do is cut and hollow them. Useful up to a point except that you can't actually pass through a hole cut into a giant prim. How often are you going to use a 1024m X1024m prim or a 65535m X 65535m prim? If you have a job that requires a few dummy buildings to fill out an urban landscape some of them might be useful provided you texture them adequately. And the 50X50 sphere will inevitably make appearances (cut & hollowed) as replacements for geodesic domes and the like. I can see them ending up in everyone's inventory fairly soon as the latest 'must-have' but having very little use as a construction tool in SL

well since these are now freely available full perms on an outside very well known shopping site, i think everyone has them by now. no one is profiting as they are free.

I agree with Pendragon, the important matter regarding this thread, is, as previously stated:

"there has to be a better way of dealing with this than banishing all huge prims or including them in every resident's library."

Constructive critisism is fine, but ranting and raving about an expolit that you have no control over won't help. Yes, I am just as mad as many of you but their are many other issue's that demand your attention and are much more important to the development of SL, so..... get your FREE HUGE prims, build with consideration (or seek assitance), and GET OVER IT!!!


BTW don't forget to thank Johnboy Aska for his contribution, he obviously understands the communal mindframe we should all be sharing.

(Quote- Johnboy Aska)
"This is a public service for all of SL. I make no judgement as to the value of such prims or their effects on sims etc, I merely wish to allow everyone access to these; if someone can sell them and use them, then everyone should have the right to sell them and use them."

Thank you Destiny Niles for the point out &
Way to go Johnny boy!

I've got a 40x40 vehicle testing platform. Currently it rezzes in 4 pieces, which then move into position.The rezzer works about.. 80% of the time so far. I need to put a sleep in so that it hangs around long enough fotr the parts to get their "move into position" instruction.

I picked up a set of these.. hoping I could use ONE prim for the floor. (instead of 20). THrough a little prim torture, I was indeed able to create a 40x40x0.5(ish) platform. I was very jazzed. slapped my textures on it and was ready to go.

Of course, standard link limits still apply.. so I can's stick my 24 prims of wall segments onto the ground prim. fine.. I copy the prim and hollow it.

Cept.. these prims don't act hollow. At least, not the one I was using. SO.. I'm still stuck with my parts rezzer. I can knock 19 prims off the build.. but I'm still stuck with unlinked parts.

And of course the content may die at some future time.. but we deal with that every other wednesday.

Note that some/most of the giant prims show up as a big cube on the map? Seems like they have the bounding box of a giant block, so it's my guess that either the exploit wasn't entirely correctly carried out or there might actually be a non-arbitrary reason for 10m limits.
I wonder if cut/profile cuts will suffer from the same problem as dimple/hollow on a sphere.

After playing with these a bit I have a suggestion, how about forcing them to be phantom? From what Philip said, the big issue with these for SL is collision detection. If they are forced to be phantom that would avoid the problem.

Of course there is... In fact there are several, and they have been outlined by LL in a couple of places here on the forums and on the blog, and also why LL has said that they may choose to remove them at any point in the future.

Doesn't mean they arent useful

I think the word EXPLOIT is being used out of content. The word exploit brings to mind illegal, and hacker. which infact these prims where created and eventually LL wrote code that they became no longer availible as a creation method.. Just the same as several commands, functions, and events have, but I dont hear them being called exploits.

My advice to the starter of this thread, spend the money and get them if you want them so bad , if you dont have the money to afford them, then you got more important things to worry about.