FAQ : HDM, huge, mega, giant prims
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Okiphia Rayna
DemonEye Benefactor
Join date: 22 Sep 2007
Posts: 2,103
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11-21-2007 15:06
From: Zammy Voom sorry, noob here (please be gentle ^^)
but why are there 18 "different" megaprims and not just one? isn't it possible to use just one single mega prim and edit that one to create any one of the selections quoted above?
also, i notice that there are a few mega's with one dimension <10. is it possible to edit that dimension to become greater than 10 or is there some sort of latch-type threshold that will prevent it? In my experience, no size on them can be changed unless the whole thing is put down to normal sizes... EG 10 or lower. And you cannot edit a mega to be another mega...
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Darien Caldwell
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Join date: 12 Oct 2006
Posts: 3,127
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11-22-2007 15:57
I think it important to point out that in this FAQ the following statement is inaccurate: "- Do they create lag ? > Yes a lot of lag if they are near the region's edge or over 512m of altitude. Read details from Zero Linden at http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/User:Zero_Linden/Office_Hours/2007_May_08 (starts at 13:22)" If you read it carefully, he is saying prims over 512m in size, not 512m in altitude. It's just worded badly. |
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Tegg Bode
FrootLoop Roo Overlord
Join date: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 5,707
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11-22-2007 23:44
From: Andrew Linden Here's the deal on megaprims.
There is disagreement within LL about what to do about them. There is a "destroy all megaprims" (DAMP) army in LL (of which I am Captain) and there is a "but megaprims are cool" BMPAC resistance militia which far outnumbers the army of DAMPness.
I've got some anti-megaprim nukes in my current project's sandbox and I've been making noise within LL about shipping them, but the project isn't going to get off the ground while the BMPAC controls the Governance team, QA department, and Deployment forces. As such, I've sued for a peace plan which is as follows:
Megaprims will remain in a semi-broken state indefinitely. We won't be making megaprims an officially supported feature until we can "solve them right". Solving them right means enforcing the access permissions of parcels -- preventing objects from parcel A from overlapping on parcel B if the owner of parcel B doesn't want them there. This is a Big Project, so I'm going to be breaking it up into Smaller Projects that will roll out in the following order:
(1) Death to all megaprims larger than 256 meters on a side (the BMPAC forces don't think these megaprims are cool).
(2) Allow parcel owners to manually move out or return objects that overlap their parcels.
(3) Pre-emptively disallow object placements that would violate parcel access permissions.
(4) Provide some sort of UI feedback that alerts Residents when an object placement will fail.
A semi related project that will be required by stage (2) is to give sculptie objects a better collison approximation shape. Cool thx Andrew, count me in the BMPAC for their compromise solution, I wonder how many of these bigger ones are inworld even, where only residents with draw distances cranked high would see the spectacular sky anyways. 
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Wildefire Walcott
Heartbreaking
Join date: 8 Nov 2005
Posts: 2,156
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11-28-2007 09:04
From: Darien Caldwell I think it important to point out that in this FAQ the following statement is inaccurate: "- Do they create lag ? > Yes a lot of lag if they are near the region's edge or over 512m of altitude. Read details from Zero Linden at http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/User:Zero_Linden/Office_Hours/2007_May_08 (starts at 13:22)" If you read it carefully, he is saying prims over 512m in size, not 512m in altitude. It's just worded badly. Bump for accuracy. |
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Void Singer
Int vSelf = Sing(void);
Join date: 24 Sep 2005
Posts: 6,973
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11-28-2007 20:54
thanks to you both, Darien and Wildefire, I was wondering where THAT rumor started... one down, 100 to go
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Sindy Tsure
Will script for shoes
Join date: 18 Sep 2006
Posts: 4,103
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11-28-2007 21:02
From: Void Singer thanks to you both, Darien and Wildefire.. /me adds her thanks, too. I've also been wondering why megaprims would be ok if they were up high and this answers that quite nicely - they aren't any more ok up there. |
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Domneth Dingson
Registered User
Join date: 20 Nov 2006
Posts: 126
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12-01-2007 10:41
From: Sindy Tsure /me adds her thanks, too. I've also been wondering why megaprims would be ok if they were up high and this answers that quite nicely - they aren't any more ok up there. actually, you misread what he said. It was 512 size not altitude that's the problem. |
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Sindy Tsure
Will script for shoes
Join date: 18 Sep 2006
Posts: 4,103
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12-01-2007 11:45
From: Domneth Dingson actually, you misread what he said. It was 512 size not altitude that's the problem. I think that's pretty much what I said. I'd been hearing other people say megaprims were ok at altitude and I had been wondering why that would be true - doesn't really make sense to me but I'm hardly an expert on the innards of SL. It turns out, per Darien's comment above, that LL didn't say they were ok at altitude. So, I'm not wondering about something that doesn't make sense to me any more but it wasn't true in the first place. |
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Darien Caldwell
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Join date: 12 Oct 2006
Posts: 3,127
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12-03-2007 12:33
From: Sindy Tsure I think that's pretty much what I said. I'd been hearing other people say megaprims were ok at altitude and I had been wondering why that would be true - doesn't really make sense to me but I'm hardly an expert on the innards of SL. It turns out, per Darien's comment above, that LL didn't say they were ok at altitude. So, I'm not wondering about something that doesn't make sense to me any more but it wasn't true in the first place. Actually my statement doesnt' say they are okay or not okay, but rather that altitude is not a factor in their inherent okayness.  They will be just as good or bad at any altitude, depending on how they are used. From: Domneth Dingson actually, you misread what he said. It was 512 size not altitude that's the problem. i think you mean what *she* said |
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Haravikk Mistral
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Join date: 8 Oct 2005
Posts: 2,482
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12-12-2007 02:38
From: Andrew Linden while the smaller tiles will have a larger memory footprint and more entries in the broadphase and other systematic structures. You made a similar comment on my JIRA issue for a "big-prim" editor ( http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-2859). However, the assumption here is that the builder does not use the excess prim-allowance for something else. A 100m x 100m floor would require 100 10m x 10m prims, yes. Compared to a single 100m x 100m mega-prim that's an overhead of 99 prims, sure it's a cost. But The person using the mega-prim isn't going to just leave that extra 99 prims empty, they're going to put something else instead. So there is no memory overhead for the small prims in terms of typical simulator usage. In terms of the broad-phase checks, the small-prims will still have the advantage as they will only make it to the narrow-phase check if any of them are actually going to be collided with, which in a full simulator isn't overly likely. Can someone please run a test of what lags more; a 100m x 100m prim floor made with 10m x 10m prims, or a 100m x 100m prim floor made with a mega-prim but with the extra 99 prims used to add decorations or something to it? This may have to be a Linden though as I don't know of any blank simulators around at the moment.
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Sekker Thirroul
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Join date: 27 Aug 2006
Posts: 28
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12-12-2007 03:07
logicaly haravikk even if the 100mx100m mega prim used no more than a single 10x10 floor tile if the other 99 were used in vairus cut, twisted hollowed textured ext. decorations and furnitures they would use more than 100 10x10 identical simple cubes with 6 sides and probebly one texture. so theres no need to test that point.
I agree with the point though people rairly use mega prims and leave all the freed up primage unused. Dose come back into play when the prim free'd up is being used for temporery structures so that most of the time it is unused which means its going to peek above the base (100 10X10) usage at times but normaly be significantly below.
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Haravikk Mistral
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Join date: 8 Oct 2005
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12-12-2007 03:45
From: Sekker Thirroul logicaly haravikk even if the 100mx100m mega prim used no more than a single 10x10 floor tile if the other 99 were used in vairus cut, twisted hollowed textured ext. decorations and furnitures they would use more than 100 10x10 identical simple cubes with 6 sides and probebly one texture. so theres no need to test that point. However the mega-prim itself (as Andrew pointed out) still causes a larger load than any of the 99 other prims would. So in the case of 1 mega-prim + 99 prims vs 100 prims, the 1 mega-prim + 99 prims would still require more processing than the 100 box prims, even if the 99 extras are all boxes as well. Also, on the off chance that Andrew Linden does read this, please do add yourself to the watch list for the big-prim editor JIRA issue or PM me with some other details convenient for discussing the solution. I've posted comments about other problems raised but no-one's watching the issue which makes discussion on it a bit useless =)
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Sensuous Maximus
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Join date: 17 Oct 2007
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BUMPING for an update?
11-20-2008 07:46
Now that time has passed.... servers and software upgraded..... what are the affects of megas today? Is there any NEW information on this subject? All previous comments are a year old now. A lot has changed since then. Let's update this thread |
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Meade Paravane
Hedgehog
Join date: 21 Nov 2006
Posts: 4,845
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11-20-2008 08:44
From: Sensuous Maximus Now that time has passed.... servers and software upgraded..... what are the affects of megas today? Is there any NEW information on this subject? All previous comments are a year old now. A lot has changed since then. Let's update this thread I don't think much has really changed. With Havok4, megaprims are less prone to crashing sims and stuff like collisions behave better. The last I've seen from LL on them is from a Andrew Linden office hour transcript, where somebody's asking about doing llVolumeDetect on a megaprim. Starts at around 17:43 at http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/User:Andrew_Linden/Office_Hours/2008_09_11 . There was a follow-up to this conversation at his office hour a week or 3 later but I don't see it - it's in the transcripts somewhere if you want to dig..
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Wildefire Walcott
Heartbreaking
Join date: 8 Nov 2005
Posts: 2,156
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11-20-2008 09:32
From: Sensuous Maximus Now that time has passed.... servers and software upgraded..... what are the affects of megas today? Is there any NEW information on this subject? All previous comments are a year old now. A lot has changed since then. Let's update this thread During a brief period last year, folks were able to make their own megaprims using opensource clients. A lot of people put together some awesome sets of prims (just search SLX/XLStreet), in many more sizes than were ever available before. I strongly recommend using the new generation of megaprims because chances are you will find one that was made at exactly the size you would need without requiring a lot of cutting and whatnot that people tended to do with the original G*** R********** megaprims. |