FAQ : HDM, huge, mega, giant prims

It is written, now you can interpretate it the way you like !


"17 as far as I know" means that I listed all the ones I knew and in that sense I made no mistake.
Knowledge is always as far as someone knows something.


I did that, 3 times actually. So no wonder I lose patience.
Either he hasn't read everything and/or he has no intention to share.
Considering that he wants them off of mainland I don't think he wants to share at all, or he would have done it (considering the rarity of the prim).


Oh the horizon. Yup, irresponsible.


No the one who could get deprived of all features with your reasoning are the mainland owners since Kyrah only wants the estate owner (even not island owners) to have the HDM prims.
Both mainland and island owners pay for prims including HDM prims.
That's why depriving the first and favoring the second is unfair.


Mainland owners want to use HDM prims on mainland and they will fight against anyone trying to prevent them to do so, what's difficult to understand ?


"hyper deka metra" literally means "bigger than ten meters".
I'm not trying to force anyone to use that term, however you're trying to force me to use another term, yes yes.
I don't care what term you use like I don't care if everyone mistakenly says "sim" when talking about a "region".
"Sim" is either the server or the abbreviation of "simulator" which is the software.


"bad knowledge" and "irresponsible" are not insults. Check the your dictionary or ask your parents.
By saying that they are you are flaming and that's what I'm going to report you for.


I'm not using a technic, and you haven't insulted me yet - hehe, see ?
However you are using a technic that I already experienced here which is to falsely accuse someone of insulting someone else.


The topic is "FAQ on HDM prims", period.
By judging me rather than the FAQ's content you are off topic, period.


Nope, nothing justifies off topic. If you don't like what I write, call a moderator.
You could have sent me a PM or IM but you don't like to follow your own good advices.
And the one who degraded the thread was you when you started to be off topic and interfered with something you had no business with.

I hope my question gets answered before the thread gets closed because I really want to know.

I don't follow: if the island sim has no neighbouring sims, so that no sim other than that one can see the prim, how can it be irresponsible? Even if such a huge prim had some bad effect on the sim's performance, the only sim affected is the one owned by the person who wanted to use the huge prim.

Arden: apparently the minimap doesn't know how to depict megaprims properly, and shows them as larger than they actually are. I can imagine that others near you might like to see their prims on the minimap but cannot because of your megaprim, so they could have grounds for complaint.

Arden, the minimap indeed shows HDM prims bigger than they are.
Turn the sculpted prim into a box and if it visibly (walk around it and check) doesn't overlap then it's ok.

Irresponsible how? What do you mean? What detrimental affect do you believe it possibly has? And where's your proof?


This is where your argument falls apart. Magaprims (sorry, I can't bring myself to call them HDM) are not officially supported by SL. They're not even supposed to exist at all. They were only created in through an illegal exploit, which is now closed. Therefore, no one is paying for them at all. They can at best be considered a free bonus.

At worst, they can actually be looked at as a way to cheat the system, to get more than what you're paying for. For example, let's say that for whatever reason, I'm absolutely in love with 20meter-diameter cylinders, and I'm just dying to have 100 of them. Under the constraints of SL's official design (sans megaprims), I'd need to pay Linden Lab for about 5300 square meters of land in order to have the necessary 1200 prims at my disposal. However, with megaprims in play, I can get away with paying for just 512 square meters.

So, would I be screwing Linden Lab out of 90% of the tier I should be paying by using megaprims? The answer is a matter of viewpoint, of course. If suspect that if I were in the finance department at Linden Lab, my answer would probably be yes. If I were in the development department though, it might be no.

The main point here, I think, Simil, is that you seem to be trying to imply that it's every landowner's God-given right to use megaprims. The truth is though that none of us have that right at all. Some people have been enjoying the privilege, sure, but should things change, that can't rightly be called "unfair" in any way, not even if the change is just for the mainland.


This logic does not hold up at all. Even if you ignore the fact that megaprims aren't supposed to exist, so they are not directly "paid for" by anyone, there's still no reason that it would be inherently "unfair" to include them as one of the many extra features that estate owners pay more for.

I think the real issue here is jealousy, not fairness. By all appearances, you just don't want to have to pay estate level tier fees in order to have megaprims on your land, so you justify that to yourself by calling those who would "unfair".


You know what? I'm a mainland owner. I'm not about to join your "fight". I suspect most others wouldn't either. Some undoubtedly would, sure. But quit trying to make the mainland out to be some kind of united front. It's absolutely not.

You keep talking about "responsibility". Well, the responsible thing to do on the mainland is for each individual to do whatever he or she can to prevent lag. If that means not using megaprims, then so be it.

In our Indigo/Crimson/Olive community, for example, we go to great pains to keep things running as smoothly as possible. Often this is to the voluntary detriment of the visual quality of our builds. Considering that some of us are full time professional builders and project managers, that says a lot. If we wanted to, we could easily (and selfishly) bring half the North coast area to its knees, performance-wise, by ramping up the visuals on our own land. But the fact is we actively choose not to. We recognize that performance has to come first if people are to get any enjoyment out of the place, so we keep the visuals moderate. It's sometimes painful to hold back like that, but it's what know we have to do.

When I build a project on a private island though, it's an entirely different story. In most cases, the visuals come first in those projects because an island is almost always going to run better than a mainland sim no matter what.

This consideration for the enjoyment of others on the mainland is why I was so interested in the question of increased network load from megaprims. If megaprims do indeed have a negative affect on inter-sim communication, then using them on the mainland should be forcibly disallowed. It's simply not fair to slow down everyone else in your sim and all the surrounding sims just because you feel like you gotta have a one-prim 40-meter dome over your property.

However, if it's simply a question of physics and intra-sim CPU cycles, as Andrew indicated, then it's possible that megaprims could be used responsibly on the mainland. As Andrew pointed out, there are of course some governance issues that need to be ironed out to ensure that people do act responsibly (ability to remove stuff hanging over your land is crucial), but if it's not a lag causer, then there's no reason not to do it.

I'm pretty sure I can speak for almost everyone in my particular area of the mainland when I say we'd prefer megaprims stay out of our neighborhood until such time as they can be proven not to have a negative effect on the grid. So count us out of your fighting force.

I can see how Megaprims can be an issue on the shared mainland. Still, on a private estate, it shouldnt be much of an issue because the space is much more controlled by the users, and its much harder to just grief on a whim.

If the scale of these prims are such an issue for Havoc, then setting them Phantom should be a good work around.

As for what would I use a megaprim for - i've seen people using them for anything from sky replacements to saving prims on large and elaborate structural sculptures that would be nearly impossible to make without these sort of prim sizes.

Just go to the main IBM sims and check out the design of their auditorium to see what i'm talking about.

The act it irresponsible in itself, if you don't understand what I said, I can't explain further.


You don't understand what you're reading.
I'm talking about your reasoning to justify the fairness of Kyrah's idea.


We are paying for prims and HDM prims are prims.
We do not not-have-the-right to use them, therefore we DO have the right to use them.
It's either everyone or no one, otherwise it's unfair.


Precisely, no one wants to pay for something they had, and no one wants to lose something they had.
Everyone has the right to use HDM prims.
Preventing some residents to use them is unfair, you will not make me say differently, give up.


Go make a poll and see.


HDM prims are like textures or scripts, if you don't use them right you'll create a lot of lag. Would you be ok with not using textures or scripts ? I don't think so.


HDM prims are as problematic on mainland as on estates.
Kyrah's idea will just remove the problem from mainland and increase it on estates.
There's no mainland VS estates there's only DAMP VS BMPAC as Andrew said.


Nope, sim is the server, simulator is the software and region is the data.
One server runs several simulators and each simulator runs a unique region.
Regions are independent from simulators and maybe even from servers that's why you can't associate them.


Same thing as you are trying to gain by arguing with me.


Not true, you have been judging me instead of what I wrote on the topic.


And talking about my behavior on the forum is not a sub topic, it's off topic.


Look at how the thread would have evolved without your intervention.
It's clear that it's your interference and off topic talking that turned things into a "forumite piece of dren".
Other residents are smart they stay on topic and mind their own business.

'bout sums it up, I think.

Good luck.

what's going on in this thread?

Simil Miles, Chosen Few, wow, thanks for those completely off topic rants. All have profited from your completely useless argument. <NOT>

Anyway, the small experience I've had with megaprims and the Lindens is an abuse report on my neighbor when he would leave his 100+m prims laying clear across my parcel but with the center over his parcel. This was galling because I was unable to return them but forced to suffer their obstructions.

The neighbor always seemed to be able to move the offending prims before the Lindens had a chance to veiw the infraction. Based mostly on the slow response of the Lindens rather than the fast response of my neighbor. (Anytime was bad enough but up to two days sometimes was too much.)

Finally, I simply complained that he uses the megaprims, being under the missconception that they were illegal. What the Lindens reply with was that the prims were unsupported not illegal. They will not help with issues in using the prims and at very most reserve the right to remove them. I then asked if it would be ok for me to use them on my own property and the answer was pretty much whatever, just don't call for help.

As for how the prims show up on the map, it's been my experience that the prims that have been butchered to be the size that they are show up as the size they started out as. So if you edit a prim that is 100x100x100 to get a 100x100x50 than it will still show up as the 100x100x100.

This thread really demystifies megaprims, so perhaps if those involved agreed to delete/edit their side discussion out we could be left with a really useful sticky just about the properties of megaprims, since the more controversial discussion of their appropriate usage isn't conclusive.

Fwiw, I think a lot of people get these prims from the free mega-and-nano prim box on SLX:
http://www.slexchange.com/modules.php?name=Marketplace&file=item&ItemID=206333

Which has a fairly comprehensive set of megaprim derivative sizes as well as the basics.

It also has a click-through to a set of megaspheres:
http://www.slexchange.com/modules.php?name=Marketplace&file=item&ItemID=206333

Incorrect. How ever you torture the prim is how it will show up.. Need an example.. Go to TVP LLC island I am using 2 differnt Mega prims on top of my land.. both are 256x128x1 (normally 256x256x1) I am using a white and blue prims there to make my land look like a sign (on the sim 2 to the right mine also) im using a single 256x256x1 black one to cover the entire sim.. how ever you distore them is how they show up..

I really should write up a Mega prim guide .. it seems that alot of people dont understand how to use them. I am just too busy building with them

When I originally wrote the above I also ended it with " ~ and thankfully free of noise." I edited the last bit out, as it itself is "noise", rather than information.

I check back today to pick up more "useful information" and alas the thread has degraded into "noise", and probably lost any chance of becoming a sticky.

wtg guys.


However, saying that, if one can ignore all the noise, there is still much of value in this thread.

Well I've been there but it's difficult to verify as I can't teleport freely, I'm stuck in one half of the region by walls and ceilings, and the whole region is covered which makes the whole minimap black.
On my land there is a box cut to half that shows as uncut on the minimap.
So I think you're talking about the map while we're talking about the minimap.
It's the map that shows prims correctly and that should be trusted for overlapping matters.

Done.

Well, at least my part, anyway. My apologies to the community for having let my disagreement with the OP get out of hand. Thanks to Nika, Hiro, and Debbie for making me realize what I'd been doing.

I've left in the parts relating directly to megaprims and to the philosophical debate about whether they should be allowed on the mainland. Everything else, I've removed.

Really like that you stood up there Choosen.. I have been trying to educate people in mega prims. I use them alot.. Not as much as I prolly could because like a few of you I dont want to end up not being able to have them.. But i do use them in areas that make sence *(like building a sim that is controlable so people cant just teleport where they want to and more where I want them to. By doing this i can control the content of my sim .. and even do some building in private without having people bothering me..

And please.. If you have any more questions bout Mega prims and I can help please feel free to IM me.. I am trying to educate as many people as I can with mega prims

The best place for asking questions is here so that it's public and added to the FAQ, but do like you want.

Ouch Flix, my bad I did mean the mini map. Sorry for that.

About that phrase:
"Dimpling affects Z of visible size, it can divide the actual Z size by 2 or 4."

What it means? I have changed the visible size of Z axis of any megaprim between 2% and 100%. For example, with the basic megaprim 1x1x100 you can have any visible and tangible Z axis between 2 meters to 100 meters and with centralized axes if you want. In that example the dimpling is 0.490(Begin) and 0.510(End).

I use megaprims currently mostly for plane type of sculpties.. Like Gene Replacements box 25*25*1 / 25*25*2 / etc. all gives me the same 50*50*50 sculpted prim.

I dont use megaprims larger the 60m currently since they become a bit harder to handle,
but for some of my (plane type) sculpties I use now:
- megaprim 25*25*1 -> gives me a 50*50 sculpty
- megaprim 40*40*40 sphere -> gives me a 40*40 sculpty
- megaprim 10*10*15-> gives me a 20*60 sculpty
- megaprim 16*16*0.8-> gives me a 40*32 sculpty

I'd like to post a link to a JIRA proposal I made that would allow us to build larger shapes, but from the current 10m x 10m x 10m prims:
http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-2859

Please be sure to read the sub-task which makes this a lot more feasible (and require less prims to work):
http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-2860

Let's us have big shapes AND remove mega-prims =)

I've used Gene Replacement's nano prims when i built a fortress. I had a 2500 prim limit, and i used some of his prims for the floor of the fort. I've not had any lag probs with the sim I'm on.

I just wish that the sizes could be changed to accomodate the space I would work in.

I own a 1024 plot of land, and the 20x20x.25 fits, but a second one is two long. Argh! and when you add the 10x10x.5 regular prims to it, it's a pain in the butt to line up.

Overall, though..I like the huge/nano prims.

Count me in the "Love em" category...

Even with some of the large ones, the problem isn't so much the physics, it's cuts, and especially hollows, which are handled poorly by the physics engine, especially when said mega is being moved or IIRC when the cross borders.

as a test case in edit drop a hollow dimpled and half cut 32x32 box over an av, and they get the falling/floating upwards effect. yet when the same mega is not moving, rarely if ever happens. I haven't tried, but it may occur on smaller or even normal sized prims.

if we had some better standard sizes to work with, Im willing to bet most mega issues would go away if we didn't need to hack them with cuts/hollows to get useful sizes.

there's alot of scare tactics involved in the whole debate, I've even been in a sand box to show a friend a 20x20 to increase her house size, and got chewed out by the owner for using them, I let it go because he seemed very adamant about how 'evil' they were, and it was after all his land... just wish the misinformation would stop.

I find them indispensable as well. I have a slightly different problem though. I'm trying to use the 150x150x150 sphere by Gene Replacement and I can't seem to get the full bright setting turned off. I can un-check the box but it is still there. I have made the outer texture 90% transparent and the inner texture opaque (and black), but that texture (or maybe both but I *think* it's the inner one) is still "bright".

The 100x100x100 sphere is no problem and the 256x256x256 is, well, too big and it has its own issues.

Doug

sorry, noob here (please be gentle ^^)

but why are there 18 "different" megaprims and not just one? isn't it possible to use just one single mega prim and edit that one to create any one of the selections quoted above?

also, i notice that there are a few mega's with one dimension <10. is it possible to edit that dimension to become greater than 10 or is there some sort of latch-type threshold that will prevent it?