Is it legal?

I made a new game based on traditional italian game. It looks like zyngo but it's very different. I don't know if here it's the right place.
I need to know if my game is legal. On the Linden Site I saw that every game based on random numbers are illegal, such as poker and so on. But my question is: why is legal Zyngo? It's based on random numbers...
I hope that someone can answer me.

TY

Although Zyngo is based on random numbers, the random numbers are not the sole determinant of the outcome of the game. The players skill at playing the game is supposedly the determining factor.


It would probably be best to contact someone in the LL support department to find out whether your game meets the requirements.
ab

only way it will be illegal is if you place bets, if you have "fake" money like Z$ aslong as it dosent take any "real" l$ or USD$ or watever it is legal

Hmm. Don't think that's true. I believe the fake currency thing was slapped down. Might be worth searching through old weblogs.

it was slapped down because the Z$ were transferable to L$, if they weren't transferable it would be fine, but then Z$ would be worthless to the player only the owner selling Z$ for Lindens would make money!

True. Maybe simple enjoyment or a top scores list would be enough incentive.

I don't know for sure, but I strongly suspect that Linden Labs' policy towards in-world gambling is driven by a wholly sensible unwillingness to find themselves burdened with the various licensing, reporting and other regulatory requirements that US Federal law imposes on companies that facilitate online gambling by third parties and an equally sensible unwillingness to face the penalties US law imposes on companies that don't comply.

Since the Lindens policing this policy are probably no more expert on the minutiae of US gaming law than are most other people, I would guess they've been told to err on the side of caution and return anything that they think a US court might regard as gambling. So it you're worried, they probably would be, too.

As others have suggested, I guess the only safe bet (sorry) is to make sure winners aren't rewarded with anything that could be turned into US dollars.

Using your logic, there would be a way to win every game. That's hardly the case!

Yeah right... Zyngo is not skill-based. It's just claiming that as a loop-hole to avoid getting the axe. You might as well be playing bingo.

Instead of rolling your eyes at my perceived illogicality, you might have used them to actually read what I wrote before jumping in with your nasty little comment:
To clarify, in case you have difficulty with the meaning of the word sole, what i was saying was that the outcome of the game is based on random numbers AND player skill.

The whole area of whether a game is based on randomness or skill is very much a grey area world wide not just unique to SL. For instance the game of bridge is considered a game of skill in most jurisdictions that have strict gambling laws even though the cards are dealt randomly. Poker on the other hand is much harder to classify, many jurisdictions consider it a game of skill, yet others a game of chance.

nope bingo would be illegal

the major skill point of zyngo or any game simular to it is the wild-cards/jokers

using wilds in the proper places - making sure you dont use the super wild/jokers incorrectly.

zyngo and simular games arent just about matching the numbers.

using a stratagy is key when it comes to the wilds. holding out on getting lines to
the last moment possible so the devil doesnt take away the majority of your score.

things like that play in effect.. if you blindly click without using some kind of stratagy then you will not win nearly as much as the people who know how to play the game

and thats why these games are considered skill

btw. just so everyone knows. Lindens no longer look at games for approval of skill.
so if your making a game make sure that it takes skill to play.

Off-topic warning...
I once made a game that tests your Psi Powers (using those "square", "star", "circle" etc cards - technically called Zener Cards)... Ok now the question is -- is this a random game or a game of skill?

hehe

lol depends how well you can defend being a psychic as skill
if it pays.. lol good luck..

if not.. well actually that would be a pretty cool entertainment device.

The general advice for this, if you not sure.

Put it in world, then abuse reprort it yourself, see what happens

At risk of taking this way off-topic, an English court would view it, at best, as a mixed game of skill and chance (like backgammon or poker) rather than a game of pure skill (like chess) and therefore -- certainly since the 2005 Gambling Act and probably before --you would most definitely need a license before opening a club in England to play your game for money. I suspect US law (and Linden Labs) would take a similar view.

I agree with this, unfortuantly the American courts dont, Poker has alreaddy be classed as a game of chance, unfortunattly LL residns in America

/me goes to play poker in England

Yet, I believe that for the purposes of the 2005 Act, Bridge is classified as a game of skill even though the cards are dealt randomly. Which just goes to illustrate just what a quagmire one can get into when deciding whether a game is legit or not.

The most skill enters into poker is in deciding which cards to discard to give you the most LIKELY, beneficial outcome, and in the social aspect of acting and judging the reactions of the other players. You CAN win (at least in the short term) by the stupidest strategies imaginable. You CAN lose even with the best strategies. The difference good strategy makes isn't huge; it is merely enough to tip the scales in the long run.

Bridge, on the other hand, is a game in which you CANNOT win using the worst of strategies, and the best of strategies can produce a win at least quite a bit of the time (especially when put up against bad strategies on the other players' parts). The whole fate of the game doesn't hinge on how a few cards happen to pop up; only the starting positions, so to speak. It's like (real) wrestling: there are better positions in which to start, and that CAN even make the difference in outcomes if the participants are evenly matched, but the outcome most definitely is not assured by the starting positions.

I did read it, it still doesn't change the fact that every game is not winnable therefore it's a game of chance. No matter the skill involved.

Oh please! Does anyone belive in this? Zyngo is bad programmed and nothing else then a big fraud. I am seriously asking myself how Linden can allow it, Its kinda obvious that Linden hasn't tried it fully. Play 20 games of Zyngo and you discover how the machine works. With the cycles in payout or to call it what Zyngo really is, the gambling.

Not that I personally have any moral objection to gambling. I just like things to be called what they are. The degree to which you gamble is different depending on the medium of course. Heck, playing the stockmarket is gambling to a degree, and that appears to be quite popular.

Ultimately, it doesn't matter what any resident or even LL thinks is "legal" or not. That is solely up to LL's credit card payment processors and the feds. If they find evidence to convince them that people are gambling in SL, no matter what "game" or its supposed "level of skill" is involved, they will cut them off, and the SL economy will grind to a halt unless LL corrects the issue.

So, even though Zyngo or other games of chance/skill may be fine right now, tomorrow they may not be.

If you're looking for strict definitions of gambling, the one I see often used as a litmus in legal cases has two parts: 1) wagering, and 2) a high chance of losing said wager, along with a low chance of winning more than said wager, such that the operator of the game has better ("house" odds of making money off the deal than the players (which is what makes it gambling, ultimately). They don't even look at the skill element at all, since, if there is randomness involved, "skill" can only mitigate it to some degree, and usually, in "gambling games" that fall under this definition, the element of chance is specifically planned to exceed any mitigation by any associated skill elements in the game.

After all, if real money is involved, and it was simply a game of skill to play and win, everyone would play it, get good at it, and then bankrupt the game owner. Thus, chance is used to "better the odds" (and as soon as you start talking odds of winning/losing, you're automatically talking about gambling).

Well lets hope then that tomorrow comes soon and the fraud with zyngo will end once and for all.
People tries to explain with things like "You have to plan your game" and "You need a strategy"
But how the hell can you have a strategy on a game like this...

[16:44] Zyngo 5:1 750 whispers: Starting a new game of Zyngo on Zyngo 5:1 750.
[16:45] Zyngo 5:1 750 whispers: Your scores are now all doubled!
[16:45] Zyngo 5:1 750 whispers: The devil has stolen 40% of your score.
[16:45] Zyngo 5:1 500 whispers: The devil has stolen 50% of your score.
[16:45] Zyngo 5:1 750 whispers: The devil has stolen 50% of your score.
[16:45] Zyngo 5:1 750 whispers: The devil has stolen 40% of your score.
[16:45] Zyngo 5:1 750 whispers: The devil has stolen 20% of your score.
[16:45] Zyngo 5:1 750: Hurrah! You filled the pattern!
[16:46] Zyngo 5:1 750 whispers: The devil has stolen 20% of your score.
[16:46] Zyngo 5:1 750 whispers: The devil has stolen 40% of your score.
[16:46] Zyngo 5:1 750 whispers: Zyngo 5:1 750 game over.

Were is the skill in that? Zyngo is not only a gambling tool, it's also a machine that seem to decide when the games start how things will go for the player.

The funny part is that before this game i won 3 times in a row, the last time i didn't even used the jokers.

*shrug* Don't play it. I wouldn't. I *KNOW* it is a gambling machine, and that I will, on average, lose more money than I gain. Anyone who doesn't realize what it is needs to go back to grade school.

It isn't fraud, as far as I can tell; fraud is misrepresentation. Despite what anyone else calls it, there should be no doubt in anyone's mind that they are blowing their money on a "chance" for more.



You don't have to convince me, but I am not the one who has to determine what is and is not "legal" in the SL world. In fact, I would also posit to you that the Lindens are otherwise just fine with gambling in SL; it surely paid for a lot of tier and transaction fees when people bought/sold L$. The ONLY reason they did anything to curb it was because of legal liability, and the potential to lose critical billing services for their customers.

I don't particularly have a problem with gambling or people who gamble, but I am not much of a gambler myself, and I certainly won't support anyone's habit, including if my best bud gets in deep for fifty large with a loan shark named Freddie. "Pay the piper, dude."