Offline Builder Alpha Release

Hmm... interesting! Try pressing F11. If that does not work, I'll shift everything upwards fifty-to-seventy pixels so it displays properly in windows at that resolution.

Thanks for letting me know. I'll get right to that and make a new release for that. My laptop runs at that resolution, but the top bar is smaller, making it less of an issue.

Edit: All fixed. Try the new version.

Yeah....some sort of "For Dummies..." guide for getting an .obj into Blender and then SL would be really helpful.

Yay! All work now!

Oh I'm wondering though what the Details box do? adjusting it don't seem to effect anything

I think I'll need to learn Blender before I can really use it though O.o I dont even know how to add more object or moving them...

Edited: I'm wondering if it would be possible to make an "Exporter" from SL to your Blander script also? Making the exporter closed source and always check for creater tag, then export to email with some encryption might work?

Just some idea! ^^

Woah, GREAT script! I'll have to play more with it tonight but what I've seen so far has been very very fun.

Quick question: I don't seem to be able to create more than one prim from the menu, but I can duplicate them fine in the 3d view window. When I duplicate & move a prim, and then change its parameters (type, size, cut) in the script window, the copied prim snaps back to the coordinates of the original. Bug, feature, just not yet implemented?

Working on it. Have a huge OpenGL project due in a month other than this, so ehh... give me a few days.

My comments: I'd prefer the XML-RPC method, preferrably some sort of signed thing with the script controlled by you and closed source, this way you can make sure that it checks for full permissions or the creator before exporting. I'm assuming llGetPrimitiveParams works fine in a mod object even w/o copy/trans permissions?

Yep. This happens to be something I was raked over the hot coals on before.

However, I am going to say this flat out -- I am not going to sacrifice the open nature of my script for a flaw that's been around over two years. I tried getting them to change it last time. They didn't.


I've also given the workflow of this thought. Frankly, with so many tools already in-world that can copy items verbatim, why would anyone spend the time a) setting up and figuring out Blender, b) figuring out how the script works, c) breaking my internal permissions schema, and d) figuring out how XML-RPC works... when they can just learn llGetPrimitiveParams? Like the OGLE, it's security by obscurity right now. Which is really... all SL content creators have going for them.

At any rate, I'm not looking to have a storm of angry content creators up in arms at me again because the Lindens aren't doing their job protecting them. I'm willing to talk about it -- but when it comes to design within their system, it's flat out stupid to me that opening the process should compromise something not under my control. Especially since we've all known about it for ages. If this issue hasn't run its course by now.... well.



I will leave it with this. It should not be that, to make a useful SL building tool, I should have to sacrifice usability because the system sucks.

If you have a solution for that, I'm all ears. But the blunt truth is, what you're referring to is a moot point. And one of the reasons I am (again) considering axing support for textures -- to keep people fearful of the "script kiddies" happy.

For the record, I have considered (multiple times) walking away from this and Second Life itself, simply by the lukewarm response I've received from the Lindens on all of my projects. If everyone wants to kill the messenger again, I am gone. As it stands, my ties in SL are hanging by a thread -- and the fact I promised this over a year ago.


Thank you for the feedback.

Dude, PLEASE dont walk away! I took a look at this and was blown away - as someone who's rig and bandwith are not good enough to handle the rigors of SL's building tools (the eternal edit-snapback-edit-snapback-edit-snapback loop drives me insane) - this is a godsend.

Awesome work
==Chris

For the time being, I don't plan to until this is at least finished.

But all the same, the old "biting the hand that feeds" bit does strike a nerve with me.

I'm afraid you might've read too much into my post. While it's unfortunate that Linden Labs hasn't fixed this issue (and YES IT IS THEIR ISSUE) I'm just suggesting a method wherby you distribute the scripts to export the information in a semi-encrypted, or at least signed way. This of course would require the actual scripts to be no-mod and not posted here (though free in world, SLEx, etc. is doable). Someone could still try and break through that and would succeed easily enough, but at least they'd have to work at it.

I agree it's a huge pain in the rear end that we have to work around their downfalls, but at the same time might be worth trying to be responsible enough that you have the moral high ground to sneer at the people who give you grief and the resulting "does that mean they can make copies of my stuff? How dare you!".

Let me end by saying thank you for continuing the project as this will be a huge thing for the building community.

note: I see no issues with the importing scripts being fully mod and opensource.

I apologize if I come off as angry at you; I'm not. The point you brought up though... well.

Some context.

And the quick recap. Ultimately, I pulled a compromise out of my ass by just "flipping the existing prim." But the problem remains, one year later.

I'm a bit on the jaded end of late jumping through hoops to make up for errors in the platform and PR spin. Pardon my rantage.

Apology fully accepted, I was pretty sure it was based on that. If you wish my help in maybe doing a bit of PR scripting just gimme a chat in game, this is a project we need to see completed and not mired in the BS that comes along with downfalls of the platform

PS: This project is amazing btw.

Congrats Jeffrey! Very impressive ))

Azelda

http://metaverse.sf.net

i'm continue to be a noob pain-in-the-ass since this seems cool (and I want to be a ble to use it) and no one has actually answered my questions.

1) What do I do in Blender once i run the script?

2) How can I import an .obj from Max into Blender to bring into SL? (everytimne i run the script it reverts my model to cube)

3) How Do I Export a shape out of Blender?

4) How Do I get that shape into SL so that i can continue building ????

I am not a programmer so much of this script talk is incredibly confusing and is probably what keeps more people OUT of SL than bringing them in (not a shot at Jeffery, just the needless obscureness of SL).

Well, actually...

1) I can't answer good because I'm new to Blender myself

2) You can't, at least at the moment. And currently it can only create One prim.

3) From what I know, still can't either because it's still in beta

4) errr...answered in (3)

hope that help ^^

Jeffrey! Stop being awesomer than me!

Just play with the single prim available for now. Most of the other functionality (save to file, load from file, import, export, etc) isn't implemented yet. This is just for testing The Hard Part (tm) of the code - emulating Second Life's primitive library.


Well. In Blender, go to File > Import > 3DS to get the object into Blender. From there.... err. Um. That part's not done yet, actually. You can try saving as OBJ (File > Export > Wavefront (OBJ)) and using this old script, but I should hopefully get it all into Blender between here and the end of this project.


Patience, grasshopper. Soon. Soon!


Ditto. That's the easy part, fortunately. Once it's done.


Eh? No one's awesomer than Catherine Omega! Honest!

A tool that provides the ability to build offline is something that the Lindens should enthusiastically support and embrace. Such a tool can only foster more creative content. Come on Lindens, throw Jeffrey a bone will ya!

Is it compatible with FractalSpline?

Jeffery, I've been following this project with great interest since first stumbling across it. I thought an external app to export SL objects, especially Blender, was a cool idea. Then I see you're looking to make the transfer in *both directions*!?!?!

Torley's enthusiasm is well placed! Pull this off, and you make a quantum change in the nature of SL! Thanks for sticking with this idea!

First of all Jeffrey, thanks for putting in what I can only imagine is an insane amount of time to develop this tool. I've only been in LSL a week but as a programmer, I've been screaming for some way to be able to develop outside of the game. Its a real nightmare to be in the middle of playing around with something and be told you have to log off, ontop of numberous other reasons I'm sure have already been mentioned in the countless threads asking LL to provide external tooling.

I can see LL perspective to some degree in not wanting to develop a means of importing objects from external tools, or not wanting to build their own set of tools to allow content creation outside of the game. Standing in a sandbox and watching people around me build all this diverse pieces and the ability to run over to chat with them about what they were doing was a really compelling experience and really the thing which has convinced me to stay on in the game and give it a shot.

But what I've learned as I've played over the last week and what I'm sure the more experience developers know is that as soon as you go over a certain complexity level in what you're building the pain of keeping track of all your components, (if you've saved them or taken them), dealing with lag/interruptions and during all this maintaining your sanity really sucks any enjoyment out of the game. I had planned on finishing off my first project, a working clock this evening and out of around 4-5 hours I'd say I actually got around 1 hour of productive time out of it, due to server issues, people coming up chatting and losing previous work due to badly designed interface(entering zero by mistake as a co-ordinate and the object shoots off world never to be seen again).

I really hope that LL have had some communication with Jeffery outside of this thread, because its downright ungrateful of them to do anything less. Even if they have issues with the project, he deserves more than some bubbling idiot gushing about it and than silence.

If want to see a company who looks after its community take a wander over to www.valvesoftware.com and check out the sdk it provides the modding community. The difference between the tools they provide and what LL has in-game is like a robotic welding arm and a rock.

I'll add my cry to the many others, please give us external tooling and make it half decent while you're at it.

hm i am quite impressed, however there is a part that annoy me, with this, no more need of land to build...

if there is no more interest in getting premium since you can avoid sandboxes to build, will we get overloaded with freeloaders?

sure it's a cool tool and i perfectly see what i could do.
but well, i do not see it in a good way to push peoples to tier up.

oh well think what you want jeff

The purpose of privately owned land is primarily to show (profit) off what you've built, not for building new content on. The fact that LL maintains several in-world sandboxes emphasizes this point.

This tool simply moves the sandbox (an unprofitable medium) to a local level. This may actually enhance the content available in world (increasing profit for LL), depending upon how many people catch on to how extensible this tool can potentially be.
==Chris

The purpose of privately owned land is primarily to show (profit) off what you've built, not for building new content on. The fact that LL maintains several in-world sandboxes emphasizes this point.

This tool simply moves the sandbox (an unprofitable medium) to a local level. This may actually enhance the content available in world (increasing profit for LL), depending upon how many people catch on to how extensible this tool can potentially be.
==Chris

In theory. It is, after all, just a dump of primitive parameters. Azelda? What do you think about this question?


I contacted two Lindens about this project. One gave me a rather lukewarm response, the other did not reply whatsoever. In the interests of being polite, I will not reveal whom. Thank you for the enthusiasm, though. I sincerely appreciated that post.



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As for the sandbox argument... well. This warrants a much longer, more thought-out discussion on why I opted to do this, and to what end.

Initially, this project is part of my multi-pronged building project pioneered with the 3D model importer a year and change ago. I'll spare you the added spin, save to say I plan to keep my promise on the ultimate scope of the project, ending with offline building.

However, why I'm opting to pursue this is a different animal entirely. While I have been very enthusiastic in the past with regards to Linden Lab, I'm sure several of you have noticed my increased apathy, cynicism, and occasional disrespect for the ideas at play. This is no simple matter to explain.

My initial projects were met with a large degree of joy by Linden Lab. "Hey, someone solved the 3D model problem! Cool!" Obviously, it feels good to have one's inventions noticed by the devs and arbiters of this world. Feel free to cry FIC at this point.


------

Over time, however, none of this has scaled very well. Linden Lab still holds fast to the unified architecture model, which is the direct cause of the increased anxiety, grid crashes, slower dev cycles, and yeah -- me losing four months of work. This is a natural progression for a system with fixed boundaries and, while it may make Linden Lab money, it is not in the best interests for improving the concept.

And so, I am finishing this project as my last hurrah. Once it is complete, I will likely drift away from Second Life to work on my own concept of what these things should be.

While I do not wish to be an antagonist, with regards to this community and Linden Lab, the simple failure to understand these concepts is stifling. Either the Lindens will surprise me and grow this world into what it should be, making radical changes to the current schema (unlikely), or they will be surpassed by real competition.


As such, this is my last attempt at giving the community what they want -- ownership and separability of their content. If that is not what Linden Lab wishes, then I apologize for bringing the community a necessary element of choice at their expense. And if it is in their interests, perhaps they and I will talk again. I do know that I have not been getting very good signals from them, sans Torley.