Make LSLwiki.org the "official" LSL wiki

Which i am more than happy to help establish and change on the domain.. as far as i am concerned its the communitys.. not mine.. Lets do what needs to be done.

Talarus, goto your prefrences and change the "Skin" to MonoBook.

What needs to be done is get this resource out of the hands of any residents and back into the official SL wiki. To do that we need to start clean, so that the content can be licensed under an open source license.

LSL wiki on sourceforge is AGAINST THEIR POLICY. I don't know how else I can say that. "Open Source Content: Only Open Source licensed software and materials may be placed on SourceForge.net project web servers. "

You can't host it there. Period. As soon as they realize that your content is not open source, and is in fact infringing on the copyright of contributers, they will take it down.

Not that it is a slight against the rpgstats mirror, I don't use it very often; I have my own reasons (static site, out-of-date, prefer the Wakka formatting to MediaWiki, etc). That said, I think it is great that it is there, and I have occasionally used it when lslwiki.com was down. I, for one, really do appreciate the work and support Thraxis has put into the site. I don't support taking content that belongs solely to him.

That said, however, I'm beyond tired of the downtime of the "official" wiki. I've said to myself numerous times when it went down that I was gonna fuggin' scrape every last bit of it and host my own mirror, but I didn't, because I didn't want to add to the load, and I wanted to give Catherine Omega and opportunity to get things straightened out. Well, she hasn't been able to do that in several months now, and I want something to change. Personally, I think LL SCREWED THE POOCH letting the hosting for such a critical resource go to volunteer hosting but, then again, they've been on that kick for a while now.

Now that we've got the momentum going to put an end to the downtime ONCE AND FOR ALL TIME. I am 100% behind it. I don't CARE what form it takes or who is managing it, just as long as when I need to get to the info, it is there, it is up-to-date, accurate (or, if not, I can make it so myself), and I have an extremely high confidence level that it will always be there. If I can help make that happen, here I am. I've been offerring for months now.

The only thing for sure I am promising is to myself; I *WILL* have a copy of the most up-to-date Wiki before this is all over, even if I have to WRITE and MAINTAIN the damn thing myself.

I'm over it; one way or another, I'm part of the solution.

WHAT preferences? I don't have an account there, nor do I have one on rpgstats. Most people won't. Thus, they won't get to see your "pretty formatting", even if it is there.

As far as I can tell, the lsl wiki has always been licensed under a creative commons or Free Doc license. I have always contributed to it based on that realization. I think you would be hard-pressed to make a case for the content being under any other kind of license.

The very nature of an open, published Wiki grants some fundamental rights to all who use and participate in it, not the least of which is derivative works (edits). As such, I think you will have a hard sell to SF trying to convince them otherwise. Good luck, though.

Also, documentation cannot be "Open Source". It requires a different kind of license (CC or GNU FDL instead of the GPL).

That said, I would normally agree that LL taking it back over would be a good thing, but I think we should still have active, updated mirrors anyway, because even secondlife.com has been down a few times as well.

I agree with the earlier suggestion that the "official" LSL Wiki be housed as part of wiki.secondlife.com.

That seems the most logical place for it - being grouped with other SL wikis on a server that SL controls.

If you care about having a domain, park it someplace and rediect it there.

Thraxis is not going to let this die..
What do you all think.. Since he is being hard about this.. I say we wipe. point a link to rpg (so peole can still get content) and then start our HAND DONE input of LSL. man you are making this hard on us. We just want solutions. We are tired of the bickering tired of the down time.

If the community wants to wipe and start over thats fine.. its not my call.



Most of us all we care about is a SOLUTION.

And for thoes of you asking for it back to LL.. How about we ask them?
Any lindens wanna chime in on this?
Would you have it back or would you wipe.. also would you allow Mirrors? What security do we have that it wont go down again.

Thraxis, I think you have to decide. As things stand, your wiki is a mirror of one that is frequently down, and isn't up to date. While we all appreciate what you and Catherine have done, it's got to the point where we need a wiki we can rely on and keep up to date. Catherines isn't going to be that one, as things stand.

I'm sure none of us would have a problem if you decided to brings yours up to date when possible, and then operated it as the main wiki. But you haven't indicated that that's what you want to do. It still has a notice telling people not to make any edits, for example.

However, you do seem to have a problem with us taking a dump and using that to start our own, effectively insisting that we rely on a source that can't be updated.

So which is it? If you don't intend to operate the primary wiki, would you withdraw your objections to the community using yours as a starting point for our own? Or are you going to insist we begin again from scratch?

I have spoken to them. I did not make up this copyright taint issue. It was what they cited as the main barrier to getting the LSL wiki back onto LL servers.

We spoke with llRobla again on this just now, he said they would be happy to host fresh LSL documentation on the LL wiki, if we ensure that none of the old content is mixed in and taints the copyright.

Mirrors would be allowed since the new content would be Creative Commons Attribution Sharealike. Running a mirror would be a safer proposition legally... you could even host one on sourceforge after the taint is cleaned out, since the wiki would be truely open source then.

Waiting on a LL responce to this thread about their Wiki...

Agreed. Linden Lab is of the opinion that the work is tainted copyright wise, and can't be considered open, it's not just my opinion.

Once the content is regenerated clean, we could have as many mirrors as we want, without any worry about copyright issues, it would all be licensed under CC-SA-Attribution.

OK, so let's get to work...

Where's the forum where we are going to hammer out the new formatting rules and organizing tasks going to be? I think that needs to be the first order of business, as creating pages is going to hinge on all of that.

I vote to start fresh and roll it into wiki.secondlife.com. Start everything new. Creative commons, copyleft, and all that good stuff included.

I agree alot of the comments were helpful, but alot of it was quite dated as well. And there are a few spots where the sample code snippets could've been more clear or concise. That's not a slight to the contributors at all. Think back to some code you wrote 2 or 3 years ago and compare it to the quality of code you are capable of writing now... see where my head is?

By restarting fresh, we can provide more up-to-date samples and more direct comments without the filler.

I think we need to hear from LL first, Once they say go..and the community says yes. Id me more than happy to point lslwiki.org to their site..
lts just hope they dont do what they did before.

Heres what we need first
LL to say what they think
Community to decide as a whole what happens.


But though it may be work no matter what FRESH is good. (in most cases)
Its really up to the community though.

Also this time we will be ready for ll to take it away and have active mirroring.


Then we can get into discussion about formatting, etc.

We don't need to wait for LL if we're gonna go ahead with a rewrite. I don't care if they host it or not. As long as it is GNU FDL or CC-SA-Attribution, or even Public Domain, I don't care who hosts it.

Let's not dick around; momentum is strong; time to capitalize on it.

Agreed again. We may have to use the wiki itself as a forum (I know I hate that too), but it would probably be the best place to do it, since it's offtopic here.

Thraxis said he has some ideas on structure since he has handled all the structure recently of the old wiki, and he said it kinda sucks. No one's fault, just a product of organic growth. Now that we know the scope of the pages we'll need we can come up with a new structure.

One other hitch is we need to get LL to install LSL syntax highlight. Thraxis has a module for that that he is going to give to LL.

Hi folks, sorry for dropping into this conversation late. I haven't read through everything here, but I'd like to present an alternative.

There have been several requests that Linden Lab take on the hosting of the LSL wiki. There are several problems with us doing this work. The primary problem is the question of ownership of the material. Since, to the best of our knowledge, there was never an explicit, consistent notice of ownership of this material throughout its creation, nor a clear assignment/license associated with contributing more material, it would seem the only safe way to license this content would be to contact every single contributor throughout the life of the wiki and get an explicit license or copyright assignment from them. Note that I said "safe", not "practical".

We're not in a position to go down that road. However, we do have wiki.secondlife.com, which has had, since day one, a very clear notice about the license under which contributions are made and distributed. We would be very happy to see the community collaborate on newly created content on wiki.secondlife.com. As long as you author the content (not cut and paste from sources you are not the sole author of), we welcome your contribution.

Right but whre do we start writing, do you think they would delete it?

Do you want to start fresh on .org and we can use import functions on the wiki.second?
Where are we going with this..

Its the communitys lead not mine.

Not necessary, we can start right on wiki.secondlife.com... see the post above yours.

Yeah, I have had a few idears on that subject, too.

LSL syntax highlighting module would be great, as long as it is part of what can be mirrored. IE, GPLed. NOTHING going into the new Wiki should have ANY IP entanglements preventing copying/mirroring/derivative works/whatever.

Well Thats all the responce i need..
Can we get a portal?

Would you guys like for me to set up a quick forum on wiki.org for the wiki.sl.com lsl wiki redo?

https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Talk:LSL_Portal

That page should be sufficient for discussion of the overhaul.