Make LSLwiki.org the "official" LSL wiki

As a community resource, the LSL wiki always has to be available. Catherine Omega is one of the oldest and most respected scripters in SL and we're all thankful for her efforts to keep the service running.

Unfortunately the frequent downtimes are adversely affecting our ability to work.

Some great members have setup a Sourceforge project space to host a new version of the LSL wiki. Sourceforge has provided space for open-source projects for years, and they're a perfect fit for the increasingly open-sourced Second Life.

The new url is http://www.lslwiki.org.

My proposal here is to make this the "official" wiki for LSL, a place where it can be community managed and always available.

The poll is to get enough votes to make the forum moderator make this a permanent sticky.

I always just use the wiki on RPGstats *shrug* It never goes down.

Why would you take all of Thraxis' hard work and present it as your own? That's pretty damn sleezy.

Thraxis' hard work? Did he single-handedly write every page in the current wiki, including edits? If so, he must have a lot of alts, including me.

As far as I am concerned, the Wiki and its content belongs to the community; that was what people kept saying when they were wondering about Catherine's "ownership" of it. Simple: she doesn't; WE own it collectively, but we do so for the betterment of all, so I think it is quite fair to mirror it, copy it, translate it, change its format or presentation, or whatever, as long as the results are always made freely (BOTH as in beer AND as in speech) available to all.

In case there is any misunderstanding about my contributions, they are all CopyLeft/Creative Commons-licensed, and I'm willing to give anyone who asks even a written statement to that effect, legally-binding, as needed.

LOL Its been said the content was mirrored off RPG, awating Synch with the current wiki.. PLease see the other thread wiki is down again.. There is a discussion..

Its not to present others hard work. its to ensure uptime etc.
/54/54/162090/2.html

When has Geuis ever professed to have done any hard work? Never mind presenting someone elses as his own. What Geuis is proposing is that we, as a group, decide to move toward one Wiki and stick by that Wiki. What he is asking is do you support the move from Catherine Omega's hosting at http://www.lslwiki.com to a hosting through sourceforge at http://www.lslwiki.org.

Least that's the way I read it.

http://www.rpgstats.com/wiki/ has been up, and still is up. Why would you need to take a dump of the content ->I<- manually converted to MediaWiki to ensure it is "available" when it has never NOT been available.

You didn't ask if you could use it to seed http://lslwiki.org you just dumped it and went. You say you're "working with people" yet you never spoke to me about using the content I converted to MediaWiki to start your own. The only thing you've done is sent me a PM on these forums wanting the Syntax Highlighting module I used.

Ive actually sent you messages before to the email listed on your domain. With no responce on your end.
And yes i am talking with people.. I dont underwtand why such hostility from people.. We all have a common goal here. And we ALL need to work togeather to find a better solution than we have now. Instead of each pulling their own way one thing i am trying to do (and talking to cath) is to get something unified where there is not one single point of failure.. one where the content is community owned.. From some of the responces it seems some people are protective of things, i can only guess why and take a perspective from what is being seen. Be it Status for running such a thing or something else. I honestly dont care where its hosted and would be more than happy to point .org anywhere as long as it meets the neded reqs for something thats stable. Hell if you wanted to be the main host id point it as long as we had dumps and a shared ownership.. (NOT MEANING ME, meaning elected community people/ Like W3 consort). The point i was trying to make is this ONE person = one point of failure. One main server and tons of forks (non synched) = Single point of failure.

I do not understand why this has to be such a big debate.. The .com goes down monthly and daily.. (should hopefully be resolved when she migrates). One person who owns it could pull the plug, also has shown no intrest; untill now that a community has uprised; to share the site. Yes yours has been up and stable thats awesome. Youd be a prime person to head up the move. Stability, Conciseness, redundancy, public availability, are the keys to what is needed.

Uhh, Thraxis.. you don't OWN the *content*. You *might* own the formatting (which is kinda dubious, since MediaWiki formatting is open-source, CC-licensed anyway).

As such, I don't see any problems with taking a dump of the content, no matter where it comes from, and reformatting it again.

Now, if they verbatim copied your site, pages, formatting, and all, then yeah, you might have a reason to complain. However, the "new" site doesn't look anything like your MediaWiki mirror. In fact, if anything, I would tend to say that it looks more like Wakka, even though the formatting is all borked at the moment.

*shrug* I guess all I want to really say is that we need this resource; we can't afford to have it down like it continually has been, and everyone who cares needs to be a part of the solution in making sure that it never (read that: NEVER) goes down again. Your mirror is OK, but it has been out of date for some time. Such is the way of manually-maintained mirrors. I understand that, and I think it is great you put forth the effort. However, you've never touted your mirror to be a replacement, and what we need right now is a replacement.

Otherwise, if it is REALLY necessary, then let's wipe the slate clean and start a new Wiki fresh with new writers and people who want to see it working without everyone balkanizing and claiming to take ownership of everything. I know I can contribute about 10 pages a day until it is done. I figure there's at least 20 others who can put out, too, so we can have the whole thing replaced in a few weeks.

Solutions...

tal,

If that ends up on what happens, then we shal provide the Infrastructure to maintain something community run.
I hope it does not go to that, competeing Wiki's is not good.. Which means nothing is centralised..

I am not asking no one to step down.
I am asking what we are asking is to recognise what we have is Borked, We need to look at why and realise the pitfalls of what we have now. We need to produce a solution that will be in the community's best intrest. Not a persons ego's intrest, not a single persons intrest, but the community as a whole, cause god knows LL has left us out in the cold.

Community run is needed. This is not a commercial (techincally .com) Product.. this is a brain dump of LSL. Its a must for LSL scripters.


Can we please come to a solution that works in the best intrest of the community.

(BTW, I am not asking to run this thing.. I jumped on this after others jumped. Its not about ohh i own.. its about lets fix.. i just helped start the motion to get something completely borked fixed)..

Also think we can put this in one thread?
No need to spam 3 different threads.

If these threads are any indication, the community is pretty fragmented on this issue. Everyone wants to have the official LSL wiki.

One problem I have with lslwiki.org is that it's not very nice to look at. Another is that all of those comments are gone. There was some pretty useful information buried in the comments.

http://lslwiki.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/lslwiki/rpg-lsl-wiki-1-28-07.xml?revision=1&view=markup

That is the MediaWiki dump from my site that was used to "seed" lslWiki.org. Just because they used a different theme for the Wiki does not negate that it was a straight dump from my MediaWiki.

Yes the content came from lslWiki.com, I never claimed ownership of the content. What I take offense to is the fact that it was used without discussing it with me first.

Yes the e-mail on that domain does not often get to me as it is so heavily hit with spam, since it is on the DNS records, that it isn't usually checked at all now.

The excuse of "Getting it up until you can sync with the official site" is bunk, the information was already up at my site, and it's been available there for 4 months.

I have offered to be a host for it, but by no means do I "want" it (as in "be in control of". I *do* intend on hosting a mirror of whatever ends up being put up, though; if anything, it will be there for my own sanity in case the rest of the world explodes.

They've only imported the basic content and basic formatting from what appears to be a Wakka dump. I figure they are waiting on some way to to read the existing formatting, perhaps even getting a database copy from Catherine.

Otherwise, they will be manually reformatting every page themselves. Not a lovely prospect, but if it has to be done....

Yes, there is some good info in the comments (much of which was incorporated into edits in the actual content), but there was also a lot of noise, too. Arguments over layout and style were common in a lot of the comments. I wouldn't mind seeing those disappear.

Anyway, it might ultimately be a good thing to embark on a rewrite project. Would be kinda like Spring cleaning.

There is no guarantee that lslwiki.org wont be down tomorrow, or next month. The domain is owned by an individual, not by LL nor is it owned by "the community."

Now that LL has an OFFICIAL wiki.secondlife.com, the LSL wiki should ideally move (back) there, with Catherine's blessing. So the major sections of the official wiki would be 1. Open Source viewer; 2. the Volunteer portal; and 3. the LSL Wiki.

I hope LL and Catherine will get together to make this happen, for the best interest of the community.

In the mean time, the sky is not falling down, and there are various mirrors to use, lslwiki.org being one of several.

-peekay

Your site is old.. and not up to date.. and the rpg site was used to see and get the wiki tested.. etc. get it working then get the dump. I am sorry if you feel we overstepped by pulling. Our intentions are not ment to be harmfull in any way. Nor are they ment to degrade the effort you have done. This was designed to be a jump start to kick off a community run one. Personally i belive this is all getting quite out of hand.

We need to quit argueing about politics of stuff and start working on the solution to the real issues not trival *mothy python quote" Who killed who ... " and get tto the root problem.

This is not ment for people to take sides.. nor do i suggest taking sides.. I suggest that we bang out heads togeather and find somthing that works.. cause what we have not is yes better than nothing but its not a very good solution.

So, what you're saying, basically, is that you take offense to someone making a copy of content you don't own from a site you do own, so they could put up the content somewhere else such that we all can have a site which is a) up-to-date (yours isn't), b) complete, and c) won't go down anymore.

If that's not the case, then what, specifically, are you taking issue to? What part of the content they used to seed their site do you take exception to them using? Isn't the content you put up meant to be available for all? Or are there exceptions? Where are those exceptions spelled out?

On the ownership of the domains i propose a comunity formed Orginisation like W3 consortium, that the doman can be xfered to ... that is no one ownership. I have xpressed a workable method to have a distributed system that is centralised on its data. The goal is to get it all in one place, have it freely avail data, code and content.

Set up proper mirroring. And have it run by "elected" community people.

And LL prob does not wanna have lslwiki, we could do it over there but hey they closing forums.. they took away the wiki to begin with... who says they wont do it again.

Talarus, that is not a wakka dump. It is a dump from http://www.rpgstats.com/wiki/

Look at the page history of the Main_Page: http://lslwiki.org/index.php?title=Main_Page&action=history

And then from my site:
http://rpgstats.com/wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page&action=history




Yes you're right, it isn't a lovely prospect. Hence the reason I'm a bit pissed that the work I did for doing just that is being used at some other wiki in an attempt to become the "official" wiki.

That doesn't include the work that others had done on my site translating the wiki to Japanese, which is also now included at http://lslwiki.org/

Simple resolution, then.

Delete anything that is specific to your MediaWiki site that isn't part of the LSL Wiki content submitted, like page histories, site management, whatever. Also, delete the Japanese translations.

Problem solved.

Next problem?

As for http://www.rpgstats.com/wiki/ being old information. Yes it is. I do have another install that is updated for most of the core functions as of December 26th. It does not include all of the content of the Script Library, Examples or Protocol Exchange.


EDIT:

And Talarus, it is not the "content" it is the work that went into converting the wakka content over to MediaWiki formatting.

Actually its a publically available Special:Export
which generates xml files.


Also for domains they have to be registered to one person.. You can not register it to a group..
its ICAN policy... You can put other people as techincal and billing contacts
which i am willing to do. Anything to help the community feel more secure.. I contacked my registrar seeing if i can put it in a Groups name and have a group list of contacts.. They said ICAN policy states you have to have 1 person be adminsitrative.. Period.

Also, guess what? EVEN WITH your "dump", they are going to have to reformat all the pages anyway; for the most part, all your "effort" at formatting for MediaWiki was lost in the import (read: wasn't copied).

Compare:

http://rpgstats.com/wiki/index.php?title=LlSetPrimitiveParams

http://www.lslwiki.org/index.php/LlSetPrimitiveParams

So, yeah, delete all MediaWiki-specific pages, and anything specific to your implementation and efforts, and everyones' cricket, aye?

Actually its a publically available Special:Export
which generates xml files.

Go there Public access no restrictions etc..
and yes you have the ability to restrict that page.

------

And the wiki is open.. You want Sysop access thrax so you can trash it ill bemore than happy to give it to you.. Delete content you own.

That goes for anyone else its community run not me not anyone else etc. We also need elections for maintainers. etc.

The thing is i understand why and how you are pissed. I have tried to contact you.. as previously stated. Yours was the only one up. You had a publically available Data dump/Export. We need a solution.. We need to get the ball moving. .com is was and is down. You wont allow edits. etc.

Why fight against a solution, why fight the community.. wht all of us bicker.. and just come to a solution that works for the community cause what we have now does not,

Yes, but that person is a contact. The domain can still be registered to an organization and, if necessary with established documentation for said organization and ownership, control can be wrested away from said contact and given back to the organization, with proper notice.

I use rpgstats, and have modified my SciteEZ to access that site on F1 for any given keyword, so I will likely not be changing to any other.

If for any reason rpgstats went down temporarily (and to my knowledge it never has) I have a local mirror that already contains all of the information I could possibly need.

Yay for having choices, but I am quite happy with the one I already use.