Re-making a Wiki: The New LSL Portal

We do need a link on each page back to the portal, but I don't know if a header is the best way to do it. Someone better versed in mediawiki should chime in.

If all you are going to do is bitch about it, just stop reading this thread. There is nothing preventing you from using an old wiki mirror and pretending the new wiki doesn't exist.

Curious about the script library and examples as well.. if those were submitted within the overall "copyright limbo" wiki framework, what to do there.. a few had vague copyright statements, one I recall has a CC attachment.. the majority had nothing. Lots of useful stuff in those sections that could potentially be excluded.. or am I missing something that's already been addressed?

First of all, what are forums for if not "bitching"?

Secondly, I thought your big contention is that one shouldn't use the original wiki because its copyright status was uncertain. Are you advocating both that no one use it unless they want to use it?

Finally, this always happens on OSS code-forks and there is usually good reason that some people advocate them and some dispute them. Reasonable people can come to valid but different conclusions. I happen to be advocating that there not be a fork as it is admittedly duplication of effort. Furthermore, are you going to be creating a "clean-room" duplicate without refering to the original? You couldn't as there is no more complete source of information. So you really aren't clearing the material in the manner you hope.

This is a vainglorious effort and I'm just as entitled to that opinion as you are yours. Mine is just more valid.

Ok guys and gals (and everyone else that doesn't include), it's time to make function pages.
I've made a template that is semi easy to use.

The template is still in flux but is usable.

To make your lives easier I've made a base skeleton all you have to do is...

Find the entry in the table on:
https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/User:Strife_Onizuka/LSLFunctions

Then name a page after it's function, appending LSL_ to the front
LSL_llFrand

and copy the entire line it into the page.

There is plenty of space in the template for expansion.
Please make them multi-line to make them easier to read.

Take a look at the source of https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/LSL_llVecNorm
if you need inspiration.

I did the first 15 entries. Now its your turn to do the other 310

I Also made a template called LSLG
You use it like:
{{LSLG|name}}
and it makes a link pointing to 'LSL_name' with the text 'name'
[[LSL_{{{1}}}|{{{1}}}]]

*stickies*

Quoted for posterity.
---------------------------
/me tacks up a sign: "Don't feed the... well, you know."

They'll have plenty enough crow to eat later.

you can easily write a bot/template to redirect all ll(function) pages to Ll(function)

History:

lsl wiki hosting by a private person isn't working
individuals come forward to fix the problem
chaos ensues
out of chaos comes one consensus proposal
it is stickied as a thread in this forum
hallelujah!


Really really good work, people. And oddly this is precisely the kind of thing I think the Lindens want in the end -- for us to do things ourselves.

There is a reason that starting afresh is good: you can get rid of all the crap, and you can do it better.

I'm interested in contributing to the wiki, but would like some pointers to how to do text formatting.

What's a good URL for how to go about adding LSL wiki contents?

The very first thing you will need to do is make sure you are logged in. I believe the Wiki uses the same username/password as your login, so you shouldn't have to create a new account.

For general help, click on the Wiki "Help" link on the left-hand menu. It has the basic text editing instructions. However, for specific guidelines for the LSL Portal pages, consult the LSL Portal Guidelines page; it will have specifics for various types of pages as we define them.

Don't be afraid to just jump right in! Read the basics in the Help and Guidelines pages and look at some of the existing pages (click the Edit link at the top of the page) for insights on how they were formatted. The best way to learn about how to write for a Wiki is by learning from the examples of others.

Also, please read and use the LSL Portal To-do page so we can track progress of the various pages in the initial start-up phase. Some folks feel that it is counter to the way a Wiki is supposed to work, but it's simply there as an organizational tool; we can either ignore it and be a million monkeys trying to bang out Shakespeare on a million typewriters, or reduce the effort a little bit through some basic cooperation.

Use the Talk pages extensively for discussion and questions about "how do I do this?". Click the Discussion link at the top of the page and just add your question/comment to the appropriate section via edit. Don't forget to sign your comments/questions with four tildes (~~~~), as that puts in your name and a date/time stamp. To start a new section, edit the whole page, and append a section header (usually something like "==My Topic==" on a new line) and then your comments/questions underneath it. When in doubt, look at what other people have done and emulate them.

Most importantly, welcome!

I finally looked at the media wiki link and amazingly enough they discuss editing wikis (Duh!!)

http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Contents

Sorry.

This is well and good and all, but--for those of us who simply want to continue our scripting--WHERE IS THE DOCUMENTATION?! The new Wiki doesn't have a tenth the information as the old, and the old one is no longer up. What exactly are we supposed to do?

Use one of the mirrors in the meantime.

http://targetomega.com/sl/lslwiki.html
http://rpgstats.com/wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page
http://www.lslwiki.org

Would there be any problem copyright-wise with cutting and pasting the text in the LL produced lsl_guide.html that lives in the Second Life program folder on our hard drives into the new wiki?

My first impulse is to say "No, there's no problem at all". However, to be 100% safe, we probably should have LL weigh in on it to be sure.

The other issue is that some of that info may not be accurate or may be outdated, so it would probably be a good idea to at least note the fact that it was copied from there and needs verification against what we know is correct.

There should be at least some information about changes in LSL in old release notes, for those who might be wanting to make updates to old information copied from the lsl_guide.html file.

I concluded that LL probably won't mind the slight licensing inconsistencies. The wiki is under a CC ShareAlike & Attribution License. The ToolTips which were used to generate the stubs are under GPL (and a by arrangement commercial proprietary license). I'll put an attribution section in the template.

Better to ask forgiveness then ask permission.

Not to mention getting anything out of LL takes forever. LL moves with the speed of a company ten times it's size

Wow, this is the inverse of the argument that you've made for the creation of Strifopedia. You conclude, without asking, that LL won't mind "slight licensing inconsistencies" but that former - and essentially dead - contributors for the wiki will mind.

Also, the phrase is "easier to ask forgiveness than permission" which has a significantly different meaning.

Now you mention it, I think I've seen it quoted both ways. *googles* yep, I'm not the only one who has made the 'easier'/'better' confusion (different meaning different phrase).

The difference between the licenses comes down to how it can be exploited commercially (CC is more relaxed then GPL in this case). You could also argue that it's not a violation of the license, on grounds that the phrases are too short to be copyrighted on their own. Considering that I've cited the source on the pages in question, you could argue that it is a quotation (and only plagiarism and not copyright infringement). But it is very moot, LL's already seen the pages (Rob Linden pointed out there was a difference between deprecate and depreciate; so I changed the templates). Frankly I can't imagine LL being anything but thankful that I uploaded their documentation to their wiki, it's not like they don't give it away.

The problem with the old wiki not having a license was that if a pissed off users content was used (like Eep's) they could sue LL (Eep did in fact try to get involved with a lawsuit against LL; he mentions it on his website). LL just wants to reduce their legal profile.

I've updated the templates again, and now there is one for events too. I'll have the events imported shortly.

I'm a wiki noob, and have some questions:

Are footnotes broken? I tried a bunch of variations on the <ref> markup and they all failed.

We really need a standard for formatting LSL code - <lsl> seems to do nothing.

I'm using templates for blocks of text I'm including on more than one page, but are certainly not general resources. Is that reasonable? I hate having copies of text, too hard to maintain.

Use what you like. Copying it wholesale and hosting it somewhere else is infringing (or at best, in a state of legal limbo), and the people that maintain mirrors are taking that risk. It's no more infringing than it was 2 weeks ago though. It's not like the risk suddenly increased. I can't tell you not to use the mirrors that people choose to provide. Be thankful to them for taking on the legal uncertainty of hosting it, while we do the dirty work of creating a copy that is free from legal uncertainty.



That is not necessary when talking about factual information. Facts can't be copyrighted, and any facts drawn from the old wiki are fair game. We just can't copy the way they were expressed.

Just a FYI, posting your questions on the discussion pages in the Wiki will probably get answered a little quicker by the folks working on it, but we do check in here as well.





Not sure. Really, you shouldn't be putting hard wiki markup into many of the pages, unless you're trying to do something special. We are using templates for most of them, which makes it almost kinda like XML -- you just put in the content, and let the template handle the presentation/markup. See the LSL Portal Guidelines pages for more info.



As noted in the discussion pages, Thraxis has given them a LSL syntax highlighting module/extension, but we're waiting on LL to get it installed for us.

Thank you for lending support to the idea that hosting on LL's site makes you subject to their whims and vagaries. I wasn't being contrary for no reason; I was trying to point out that you are strongly beholden to LL by dint of your choice of host. Good luck.

Hosting files on any site makes us subject to the whims and vagaries of the site owner/admin; there's nothing new or shocking about that. I'm well aware that LL leaves a lot to be desired in terms of responsiveness and, sometimes, competence. You'll find I grouse over their foibles quite often. However, we don't require that much of them for this project, and what we do require can be routed around for the time being.

If LL doesn't step up to the plate and do their part to help us make it work, we will make it work somewhere else where we can.

Thanks for your well-wishes!

http://rpgstats.com/working_wiki/index.php?title=LSL_llSay

The above is a link to my personal sandbox wiki, where I am importing mirrors of the current work to see how that goes. I have the syntax highlighting plugin enabled so you can see how that works at the moment.

Yes it may take LL's time to get the syntax plugin added, but that doesn't make the work being done now useless. As it stands right now all the LSL Script code that is bounded by <lsl></lsl> on the wiki will get the correct syntax highlighting when it is added.