FGX2.0 skin previews from Second Skin Labs

Mercedes,

It can go one of two ways. I can make the eyebrows and pubic hair reactive to the pigmentation and rainbow sliders (transparent), or I can offer the skin with different shape options for those areas. I can't do both because it then becomes too memory intensive (hundreds of gigabytes) to save master files for each custom order when done both ways. If anything, I want to make Cierrah's job easier and not more complex .

Lips are an entirely different issue, and I am leaning towards NOT releasing textures in a kit to the general public because it becomes too tempting to infringe upon copyrights. All it takes is one idiot to ruin it for everyone (http://www.sluniverse.com/forums/Topic16829-18-1.aspx.) Instead, I will build vector shapes into a proprietary kit for internal use.

One drawback of tintable eybrows and pubic hair is the realism aspect. In order to make them tintable they need to be made transparent. To do that means those areas need to be made monochromatic, so realistic highlight and shadow can't be accurately represented simultaniously. Eyebrows will look more painted, and as the color of the hair approaches the color of the skin those areas will appear to vanish without highlight and shadow detail to create contrast.

The obvious drawback of a baked set of eyebrow and pubic hair textures on the opaque skin is the inability to change the color yourself. So, the question is then posed to the customer - What is more valuable to you?:

1. The flexibility to change the color of those features yourself
2. A custom makeover with a little extra realism

Optimally, a few should be able to customize the parts they are proficient that said, I would most definately prefer realism to flexibility. I am always on the prowl for the most realistic and defined look. Do we have any kind of timeframe for release?

I'd definetly want realism also.I'm not really interested in my eyebrows being able to change color.I'm interested in my eyebrows being able to conform to my shape.Will the eyebrows as well as the lips be able to change accoriding to my avatars shape?

The client shape sliders will allow quite a bit of flexibility in changing the eyebrow and lip shape. Of course, this skin is going to look better with a shape designed for the look. I will put out some skin demos for people to try in a few days along with the modifyable and copyable shape I have designed for it. One of the advantages of working from photos is that the shape of the avatar model can be approximated to match the features on the live model.

Great!Well please let me know when you've put the demos out: )

I will send everyone who replied here an invite to the group "House Arisia" (if they aren't already members), which is where I make any major first announcements regarding new product releases.

Meanwhile, here's one last teaser:



This GX2.0 skin has reverse compatibility with all of the current GX shadow, rouge', freckles, and lips as illustrated in the example here (one of about 100 million makeover combinations). The lips are slightly fuller, but they still look pretty good.

Just a question if I may, Nam...

Any chance of a basic "practically makeup free" option on these? Some of us do prefer to go nude, so to speak... and finding a realistic skin that isn't overly made up is always a challenge...

Most of the skins I sell are completely makeup free. This one will be too. Look back at my previous post with the three examples side by side. The one on the left is makeup free. I feel it's incredibly restricting to sell skins with makeup on, or predefined makeup for that matter unless the option to change that skin (without buying another set of full price skins) is also provided.

The beta demos are out at my store in Koss . I'm still finding small artifats in the textures (mostly around the seams) and I'm working on fixing them. Some of the other feedback I'd like is:

1. Should I keep the natural darkening around the elbows?
2. Do the two demo pigmentations seem like good colors?
3. Does it matter to people if I put barely visible watermarks on the bottom of the feet, on the palm of the hands, and on the toungue? I promise this is not the mark of the beast and will not be intrusive.
4. Should the hair get masked for various pigmentations, or do you like the color change along with the skin?
5. Nails are not backwards compatible. The fingernails are, but the toenails are not. How important is it for people to have perfectly matching sets of nails, or simply a close match between fingers and toes?

Well Lets see where to start.

1. the elbows see a tad too dark, the bottom when bending or dancing will stretch an leaves a black mark across the back side instead of drawing the shape of the bottom shade it so it flows with movement same goes for the pelvic area, it looks dark and streched out there are skins out there that resolve this issue with shading instead of drawing the bottom in. The more realistic skins out there shade the seams or joints where the body bends or moves. I like the elbows you have but thy seem too reflect a bit too much, the bottom being more of the problem the seam aroud the crotch area also are big problems... I hope it fixed with the final release

2. I like the pigmentations, quite a bit. I hope we do see the blonde and red-head once more. Your skin should have the abiity too have imperfections alot of the new excellent skins out there have that make the body feel unique and real. Imperfection are birth marks etc.

3. I don't like watermarks and won' buy a skin with them that said, thats your choice.

4. I like that idea it would be interesting too see in practice an I am for that. I would also like too see possible different aerolas and nipples and of course the vaginal area.

5. Everything should match the skin there should not be approximates in a skin design. I love the face and tone I think the body needs the bulk of the work.

The #1 thing you have above thenewer and right now better skins is customization, when you get the bugs worked out you will have a hig class skin there, like adam and zhan anyway.. Rant off..

My only problems are the eyebrows and the lips.The eyebrows have no defined shape.Most women either keep their ryebrows waxed,plucked,or arched(see alina skin@naughty island).The lips seem to b kinda tight.Like ur biting ur lips a bit.Other than that I love the skin.The body is fine in my opinion except for a few shading imperfections.And if you're going to do a little flawed perfection just put a little mole somewhere.

Agreed on the lips. I know what the problem is, and I like the original GX1.0 shape better.

I have to disagree on the eyebrows, although I think I probably left too many of the imperfections in them. It's a matter of personal preference that eyebrows look as natural as possible to me. Any more definition along the edges will begin to make them look fake or painted on at 512x512. I'm a big fan of bilateral asymmetry. It is what defines character. Both eyebrows are different, and I picked the one that looked the most uneven to show here. The live model obviously tweased her own brows at the bottom. As you can see in the comparison shot below between my master file and the 512x512 upload file a lot of the original detail gets lost, but you can see how the higher resolution file has a nice natural falloff in folicle density in the upper part of the brow. I definately want to keep that. I can, however, give the lower part of the brow a more professional tweasing, similar to the left eyebrow (not shown here). The eyebrow arch should not be messed with on the texture. That is for the shape sliders to define.





I agree on the elbows, which is why I brought it up.

The female avatar butt, however, looks absolutely horrible to me without some creased definition there. It's like removing the belly button. You get the low poly disease. Sausage butt, pancake ears, and flipper feet are a few other areas of contention with me. It is left up to the skinners to fill in the illusion of details with texture in these areas. Obviously, when the avatar moves that texture is going to get distorted, but that is a tradeoff between no detail and some in most cases. It's an illusion, and if you flip and bend the avatar that illusion is going to be broken both in shape and texture. It's a low poly representation of the human form, and we all have to deal with it until technology gets better. I describe these skins as "modeling grade", which means I am always going to opt for as much detail as the avatar will allow for photo shoots and such. These skins will not be for everyone, and if someone requires a skin with less definition, they can buy the GX1.0 or another skin from someone else.

I have another skin done from a blonde in the works. She will look very different. Evie may work as a redhead, and I will play around with that. Evie is backwards compatible with the beauty marks and freckles, and there is plenty of bilateral asymmetry already textured into her. No issues there.

Understood. This is the reason I brought it up. I can go either way on it. Watermarking is as much a protection for me as it is for the legitimate customers. I will leave the render visible watermarks out.

All doable .

I'll continue evening out the shading and killing artifacts. This is just a beta.

Also the breasts are kind of flat.They have no roundness to them.I'm not a fan of the big implant looking breasts my self but I do think its a neccesity for the breasts to look round in some form,shape,or fashion.I don't care about cleavage just as long as the breast have some 3D effect to them: )

Surely you don't mean ZERO roundness? That is impossible given that the avatar casts a shadow. I'm going to have to wait until other people weight in on that. I'm seeing something different because the shading allows for the model to be adjusted between 30 and 70 on the breast size sliders (which are set exactly in the middle on the Evie shape). Anything more or less than that looks funny either way. This skin is neither for the flat chested, nor the blown out Barbie look. Again, I want something natural and believable.

I actually took the live model through quite a bit of digital breast size augmentation before image projection with samples from another more well endowed model. I used front, 3/4 front, and a side view projection for a seamless fit. This was all done to better fit the avatar's proportions. If this forum wasn't PG I would take the time to post the images. The difference is quite dramatic.

O ok I get it now.I forgot my av is kinda flatchested.I'm so use to the big implant breasts on the naughty skins I forgot I am flatchested.My fault.So you say 30-70 looks best?

Requesting an invite to House Arisia. I am a huge fan.... SSL skins are the only really great skins in SL. I have a whole batch of them... and "Evie" is a step up from the PJ skins, as incredible as that may be!

I'd really love to know immediately when they are available for sale.

Thank you! (in many ways)


Sudane..........................

requesting an invite to your group.............This looks like a real breakthrough in skin design.

FYI to everyone. There IS open enrollment in the group "House Arisia". Skin artists, tattoo artists, and people interested in that kind of texturing in general are welcome to join. It's not all just about SS Labs products, but also a kind of networking group. I encourage people to use it for that too! You should be able to find it in Search/Groups. If someone is an avatar texture artist, just IM me and I will change your title to reflect that.

Just got a chance to take a look at your beta demo. It looks like your new skin is coming along nicely.

1 - I agree the shading / darkness needs to be toned down on the joints, and especially around the crotch and backside - though I understand the challenges in dealing with SL limitations (I think we would all love to see LL improve the avatar model with more detail in that area).

2 - I like the fair skin, not too interested in the dark olive - though that's more a personal preference.

3 - I don't like watermarks - and would certainly not buy as-is (I can see the ones on palms quite clearly).

4 - Not exactly sure about the question on hair masking. I don't like any hair on the head - though would like to keep options for brows and pubic as today with GX1.0. And would love to see new options on aereloa and nipples.

5 - Is the issue backwards compatibility or that there would not be nails that matched? I'd rather not have to buy a new set of nails, but would consider that differently than just not having matching nails available.

I do see the lack of roundness in breast / cleavage area. Mostly on the upper inner breast area. I think this is because of shading changes between this skin and the GX1. I've done a quick comparison wearing a cami top (and no - I don't have a flat breast - usually 65-70). Depending upon the angle and lighting - while there is a shadow in the cleavage area, it doesn't give the illusion of roundness and fullness - certainly not on both breasts.

Just my two cents.

Thanks for the comments and suggestions so far everybody (especially RedDawn, Gianni, and Mercedes). This helps a lot in figuring out what areas need more work.

RedDawn, the finger nails for the GX1.0 skin fully cover the fingernails for the GX2.0 Evie skin, but the toenails do not. This is one of the risks of working with photographs. Each models feet are different. Fingers are governed more by the postion of the avatar's UVW. This may be one of the cases where I feel comfortable releasing a business in a box because it doesn't involve baking it into my skin textures. These textures can be applied on the sock and glove layers.

Will you make any ponytails or buns to match the hairbase perfectly?And my last question is WHEN WHEN WHEN???

Evie's hair line should work well with most modifyable and copyable prim hair. I do have a MOD COPY hair tie with flexi hair that I could sell. Would this work?



I don't want to start a line of hair products (yet), although I'm perfectly capable of doing so. It just takes time away from skinning.

As far as WHEN, WHEN , just keep following this forum thread. I have a few changes to post back here courtesy of your, and everyone elses comments. Then, I think Evie will be ready.

yea that ponytail is perfect.

Nam,
I'm the one who has been bugging you for cherry red lips for over a year now. Glad to see them on one of the Evie shots. And I'll still gladly pay you your rl rate to customize some red lips for GX! (Yea, I know... No time...)
Nobody makes skin like you do!
I love the fair Evie, fair being my personal preference.
But my avi has jet black hair and I hear of no talk of a black haired avi! Ack!
I'm glad you are going to go more in the direction of the GX lips. Those are the best lips in SL by far. These are a bit pursed no matter how I tweak my mouth.
I agree with all the shading comments, that some areas need to be toned down. Under the chin meets the neck too abruptly when you look from the side, and the front of the neck seems dark/blotchy.
The face too I would soften a tad. I love a realistic skin, but the chin and forehead are on the edge of bad complexion for my taste.
I agree with increasing breast highlight. My avi is pretty chesty, but the breasts look a bit flat.
Yes, please do make breast, tanline, and pube options.
Tiny watermarks (smaller than what is there now) would not bother me.
I wish we could get nails and toes baked into the skin, the way the GX skin was once available.
I'm glad you got rid of the frown lines in Evie. I think those frown lines, which I had removed from my skin, aged the avatar. A shape designer told me she won't use your skins because they "look old," and I guess people who don't own them don't realize the frown lines can be removed- and how young the skins look without them!

Go Nam Go!
Eiry

Also, Nam, an FYI.

When you get a notecard (I got mine from the board where the lips are) on customization, the links for faqs and sample and save the components, etc. don't work.
Not allowed to read the note.

I'm in your shop right now explaining the process to a potential buyer who was so frustrated...