Plea to animation makers

boy this will get shot down fast : >

no copy, transfer , animations is practicly useless , why?

no mod ? >.<
and for the love of god why do some set anim no mod >.<? changing name on a anim is needed to fit a script sometimes as they dont handle identical names some anim pose balls can have

(ignore this one tho it just a pet peeve i have when trying to use anims with script sometimes :> not the thing i wanted to bring up)


----------- Suggestion? -----------
set the anims to copy/no transf
(just rise the price to cover "loss" if you actually have any)


Ok...So why?

Anything thats no copy is pretty much not very secure to buy as its way to easy to loose, yes you can usually ask the creator for a replacement if its lost, but as long as anims are set transfer theres no way to actually prove you lost it or gave it away.

After loosing 100's of anims this way asking for replacement get really really old now i dont really even bother as it sounds really lame after asking for the same anim over 10 times.

"hi its me again, guess what happend again -.-?"
"err... and it happend again"


I highly recommend anyone NOT to buy anything that is no copy ,
(that goes for anything not just anims)

'SL is not keeping our inventories safe enough for it anymore.

"But i make more money if its no copy!"
course you do >.< no argument there ,
bet you heard "i lost my anim" aloot to : >

Im so fed up with SL useless inventory that decide to
vaporize your items randomly on either;
*editing and it wanish
*rez/sim prim limit
- instead of showing it back into inventory it can delete your object

\o/ Wonder how it would see if SL could keep up with losses $ from vanishing inventory on the www.secondlife.com page,



We could all sit here and wait for LL to "fix" asset so its more stable, or make a work around to "fix" problems in SL ,doesnt everything that break in SL seem to have a work around instead of a fix nowadays? instead of a actual fix, resolved means jack it break next time you try to add something to SL apperantly, -.-


Yes please say "lolz you lost anims and whine on forum" , thats not really my point -.-;

no copy = lost cause , not safe enough , dont buy em you will risk loosing it

..... and they still cant fix this forum?...geeeeez bbcode anyone -.-? and beats me if i posted it right forum place either : P this place is a mess

so, if i create animations to sell, you would prefer copy/no transfer?

so you can duplicate it, but not give it away?

I agree about mod, drives me nuts too and doesn't benefit the animator at all. In fact, my refusal to buy no-mod reduces their sales.

But why not simply contact the creator for a copyable version and license?

They'll just want you to let them know how many places you are likely to use it, how many other people may access it from you, how many dance balls it may end up in, if you own clubs, etc.

The price won't be as high as all those possible people times the no copy version's price, because most people simply buy a few copies of the no copy version.

Which, to avoid inventory loss for you, might be the best choice?

Would you be willing to pay double for an extra copy?

Most people I know who lose dance balls, run around to re-purchase the dances (which takes time) and are upset when they can't remember or can't find a dance anymore. Maybe buy two copies to begin with instead of risking your happiness on just one?

I just recently got a bunch of copy/no transfer animations for my ao and they give me such peace of mind. I have no anxiety when I put my zhao down and drag copies of my animations over to it.

Yes and as with all things, whichever you do you will get slated for it, just as many IM saying "are your things transferable?", and then talk about how they hate no-trans items because they should be able to do what they want with a thing they bought such as give it away or sell it etc.

The principle problem with copy no trans is this:

"Hi I accidently bought xxxx, can I please get a refund"

happens pretty often and of course if its no trans it cannot be sent back, this means most places that sell in copy/no trans have to say "no refunds", which to most people is unacceptable and will lead to an argument where they berate you for selling items that are no trans.

no-copy/trans is the lesser of the evils in a perfect world, really the complaint should not be at people who sell this way, it should be at Linden for the constant problems with inventory.

On the subject of mod though, yes agreed, with possible exception of when the anim is also copy and trans where it might be necessary to register the persons name you licenced it to in the anims "description" field

I totally agree with the mod part. The Zhao allows for multiple AO's and it drives me crazy that I can't rename my pose to match a particular notecard.

However I agree with Craig regarding the copy/no trans bit. You can't please everyone. While I do actually kind of like my poses to be copy/no trans (especially poses I might use in pose balls and such) - I absolutely HATE copy/no trans clothing. There are quite a few outfits I haven't purchased because they were no trans. What if I want to let my alt borrow it? What if it totally sucks and I can't resell it. I've got a serious issue with throwing anything away so the sucky outfit will sit in my inventory til the end of days taunting me. If it had been trans I could have given it away or resold it.

So yes, LL needs to solve their inventory issues. Or maybe even stores can offer two versions of said item but yeah, this is going to suck up prims really quick.

Absolutely, yes.

Lots of anims are sold to places that have many copies. It's up to the seller to decide which they prefer to sell: copy/no-xfer or xfer/no-copy. Different business models. Both are useful.

Yup, though, I do wish I could change the names! I believe it's not possible to download an anim (as you can a texture that's copy/mod). If I'm correct, then the only reason for "no mod" is so the name doesn't change. Of course, the maker might want their work easily recognized -- but there are ways to subvert that (e.g., changing the floating text).

The solution is to buy full perm animations, which you can do in many places, and buy from the original creator rather than the rip off merchants.

Would it make sense to have this for each anim in a shop?

-A demo ball to test out the anim but not buy.
-A sign next to it saying "Option 1 - buy mod/noCopy/transfer" at whatever price
-Another sign next to it saying "Option 2 - buy mod/copy/noTransfer at whatever price

I guess you could also offer a full perm option, but I'm not sure I'd want to do that, after the biab thing.

Does noCopy/transfer expose you to any biab risk?

Okaaay. What's the problem with buying/selling full-perm anims?

I design furniture, I use several different scripts, and load them with anims...and dispense with the concept of poseballs entirely (save for those generated by the scripts). Full-perm anims make it possible to sell those pieces of furniture...be they a couch, a dance table, or a scripted sword.

I always expect to pay a heavily-inflated price...but I never try to turn around and sell the raw animations, again. That's just skanky.

What I guess I'm really missing is "biab"...wth is THAT?

^>What I guess I'm really missing is "biab"...wth is THAT?

Business In A Box.
The scourge of the SL creative community!!!!!

yeah, I've seen some valuable items packaged in a super-cheap 'business in a box.' I think it's fair to be wary of people that might completely devalue your hard work.

I'm not saying you're skanky, or that anyone in particular is, but we know there are some skanky folks out there, which gives the discussion another layer.

Couldn't a lot of that be avoided by including some pretty specific language? I've come across some products that state they're strictly for use as tools, and not meant to be re-packaged and sold individually.

Seems like an easy way to at least lay the groundwork for a DMCA suit against those who violate that agreement.

The problem isn't with you personally, it's that there are plenty of skanky people who WILL turn around and sell the raw animations again. Personally I wouldn't even be that bothered by people turning around and selling the raw animations with restricted perms (well a little bothered, especially if they undercut you with your own product) but the worst part is that they sell them with full-perms in a steeply discounted set with a bunch of other stolen animations.


Right, because strongly worded language will stop scammers

You are probably reffering to all the mlp full perm knockoffs from my take. I make and design beds and have my own engine not a piece of crap out to make a quick buck. As a matter of fact i actually have you and, craig, and nytemyst included in my beds (so i hope people stop calling them "freebies" From my perspective looking to make a big market splash since the rise of the full permed mlp it is hard to find an animator who will sell you something copy/trans to save say their intellectual rights.

If you know of any quality animators who are willing to make some lindens by selling copy/trans anims please let me know. These will not be released as freebies etc but will be in quality products with quality support and maybe get some name recognition out there.

The last two animators i have dealt with backed out with fear of the anims being all over the place in freebie beds as what happened to pars.

If anyone wants to step up and make a run at my buddy stroker i could use you on my team.

Thanks

hm, need to discuss this via IM.

Oh, yes, PLEASE offer your items with these options. I would so like the ability to choose. Or, if not, I come down strongly in favor of the copy/mod/no transfer option for animations.

im at the point i refuse to buy another no-copy ani. id rather lose $100 on a wrong ani than lose $3000 on a lost ao. never again!

HOLY CRAPOLY!!!

Guess I should be charging more!

I usually make my stuff copy/mod/no Transfer.

I dont do a lot of animations, but I've done a few here & there. And for ALOT less than the usual price. It's all just fun for me.

What? Rip off merchants? Full perm animations are the rip offs. Would you work hard on something and then give it away for free? Probably not. But some people work hard and then have their stuff stolen and sold for full perm.

Also, I make my animations no mod because I am scared of them getting stolen, but I don't think that realyl matters....I do no mod/no copy/trans because most people do that...and I want to do what they do. But I guess I could change it, it's just that you can't please all of the people all of the time.... but, I'm sure making them mod wouldn't hurt anything ...it's not liek you can actually change anythign in an animation except for the name.

That's a lot of prims... That would triple the prims in a store to add those options.

Ego, I think you misunderstood Lorna's post. She means people should buy from creators rather than those who take full-perm stuff and resell it. So, she's completely in your camp that people who create content are entitled to the revenues.

Unfortunately, we often can't tell "rip-off" resellers from value-added resellers. For example, I have content I created that others retail for me, sometimes rebranded for their shop. Sometimes I create on commission for a shop, so it was their idea, I merely made it.

It would be nice to have a simple technical solution for the problem of having 3 prims per sales item (demo, no-xfer, no-copy). I'll give it some thought, but I'm sure that even a very good solution will require a fair amount of extra work for the retailer.

Something customers often don't understand is that SELLING items is usually more work than CREATING them, especially scripted items that might require updates, or any items that are occasionally improved. Every time we make a change, it's a lot of work to propagate the changes to all affecte products, reset the permissions correctly, box them up, and replace them in corresponding vending displays. Requiring 3 versions really adds to the amount of work, and it's not clear that scripting could offset this work.

It's no surprise that valuable products often leak out with full perms! Moving products from creation to retail is SUCH a pain.

Still, there's a message in this thread to sellers: if you provide both options, you'll get more sales. Take it or leave it!

Probably the best option for anims would be display poseballs for people to try, and multi-vendor machines, one for no-copy and one for no-xfer. That solves the prim count problem.


BTW, Ego: "mod" permission on an anim only affects one thing: whether you can rename it. (It also affects whether "no mod" appears in the inventory line for an item containing it.) So, unless you're trying to keep people from renaming your anims, "no mod" does you no good and probably costs you some sales.

"no mod" on poseballs is terrible because it keeps people from adjusting them to fit their avs, unless they're clever enough to move the contents to new balls (which I believe you can do even with a no-mod object).

Lets not forget that some items are bought to be used as gift, so there is a place for 'transfer' as well. In SLEX I see that many of my items are delivered to another avatar.

As other have said, I think there is a place both copy/no-transfer and no-copy/transfer.

I agree with the original poster. I see no real reason to make animations 'no modify', except that it is the default.

Hmmm.. so we should make everything here free for you to give away again? This place is about making money and having fun. I believe everyone should be able to prosper from their hard work. If everyone had the idea that their newly purchased item was over the hill and wanted to just give it away then sales would vaporize for the people creating things.

Question: Are you willing to pay a significantly higher price for trans?