All these animation ads

Do these ads not instead belong in the SL Classifieds forum? This forum is for discussing issues with creating animations, not for advertising your new animations for sale. Sorry if that sounds harsh, but it makes this forum a lot less useful if it is just filled with ads for the latest animations.

<Do these ads not instead belong in the SL Classifieds forum?>

i don't see the harm in it, it's all animated related

I suppose the answer would be that the forum should be used as intended, which makes it easier to know where to find what you are looking for and where you should post things. LL has made it clear that advertising needs to go in the classifieds forum. Read the description of this forum, it is not to advertise your new animation products. I'm not against advertising them, but in the correct place (hell, I have an animation store and I am saying this).

You have an animation store and saying what? Ok chris who elected you to be forum police? plz chris just drop it

Ps. as a recall you have placed an add or 2 in this section of the forums yourself am i right? .. i am finished with what i had to say and will not go any farther with it, i am turning in for the evening... good Night

Many of the sections functions in the forums are to offer help to those that need it. The type of help needed can be categorized using the sections (e.g. a resident wants to know why his/her avatar keeps sinking into the ground in his/her animation, then they ask for help here). The main problem with posting ads in the other sections is that it sets a precedent and then we can expect the sections to be bombarded with ads that "fit" the topic (e.g. clothing store ads in the Artist's section, scripted merchandise for sale in the Script section, and for those that sell all kinds of things, the "New in SL" Section).

Many residents have posted up ads in this section, in the "Artists, Designers, and Clothiers" Section and in the "New in SL" Section. Many of these sections have rules that state to not post ads. If people report the posts then LL will move them to their respective places if necessary. That's the best the residents can do if they feel that these kinds of post should be moved to the Classifieds Section

As an animator, I welcome them. They let me know not only about what my compatriots and competitors are up to but also help me be a better animator. For instance, I would have never known about the animation override script unless it were posted here. I must have at least two people a day ask me about that.

Additionally, I want to know what the state of the art in animations are and what has and hasn't been done. This is why I asked for more details about a set of new gestures that just came out. I don't want to duplicate them and I don't want to have to fly over to the store and check them out.

Finally, I enjoy the cross post. It's a way to pull people across forums and have them see and experience things they normally wouldn't. For instance I brought up that my protest signs are for sale, while mentioning that they could be used for protesting a presidential debate which I hope to be in shortly (I'm running for president).

All of this equates to value for the me, the animator and second life player. I think most people would agree.

~Ulrika~

Cristano is right, this is a discussion forum, there is another forum for advertisements.

fen-

Well obviously I'm one of the violators here so if it's going to cause resentment I'll refrain from positng here. I just thought that since this forum was about animations that I'd bring attention to anything new I'm doing. I've noticed alot of people come in here "looking for such and such" or "I need a particular service". I suppose I felt is was no different than someone advertising they wanted to purchase anims or services. So, okay I was wrong and my posts about anything new will no longer be in this forum. I apologize.

The animation community is probably the youngest, and smallest creative community in SL. This is not the right attitude to have if you want to see this community grow.

Right now, we're in a very exploratory phase. It's important to know what people are doing, to try and understand the community, and where it's at. Advertisements in this forum provide value. What does not provide value to the animation community is posting threads regarding forum policy. Perhaps policy topics should be discussed in the general forum?

At this point animation-related ads don't remove value - They also don't compete with regular discussion threads. This is one of the lower traffic forums. Advertisements have been clearly marked - if you don't want to read them, don't click.

As for your comment regarding the classifieds forum, noone reads them - it's a mess over there. There really needs to be classifieds grouped by category. There's no point posting to a forum that has no readers.

I agree and will no longer post anything here

Absolutely Francis!

As the person who posts here more frequently than most, has created notable animations, and even went to the lengths of creating an online tutorial, I must say that this injection of negativity from feniks and Cristiano is most unwelcome. What you're doing is attempting to reach out and control people using shame. The purpose seems simply to be to suit your own needs and is clearly not for the benefit of the animators who use this forum.

I for one will rebel against this. I intend to post every new creation I make with an explanation of why I made it and any important lessons I learned. I invite you to shake off this attempt to control your behavior and do the same in order to preserve the quality of this fine and upcoming group.

~Ulrika~

For now the animation community is small, but with the growth of SL this community has expanded and will keep expanding. What can happen with this growth is that the Animation section will turn into a place with only ads and a person asking for help will have their thread buried under all the ads (it has happened in the other sections).

I agree that the Classifieds section is a mess and definitely should be separated into categories (animations for sale, clothing for sale, land sales, job hunting, etc.), which will make browsing through them more efficient.

I don't think that Cristiano started this thread because of any personal grudges against any of the other animators (he's an animator too). I think that he is worried that this section will turn into a mass of ads instead of a thread were people ask for animation help and discuss how to make them.

My point in saying that I am an animator is the issue affects me too. I am not acting as forum police, but since when can I not offer an opinion? You and many others have posted plenty of them Aces, and I have respected them, even if I disagree.

I have not placed any ads in this forum - I placed several in the SL Classifieds forum, where advertising should be put. We complain about heavy handed forum moderation - but if we can't self moderate and use the forums sensibly, what is the point?

Ulrika,

My god, spare me the righteous indignation act. Your frequency of posting does not in any way give you more or less of a voice than anyone else, or any control over this forum either. I expressed an opinion that ads do not belong in this forum, as it is a discussion forum, which as you noted both Feniks and Kats agreed as well. The only negativity was your posting, not mine. Since when can someone not disagree with you?

And furthermore, what exactly would "to suit my own needs" be? It seems to me that by posting ads for your "notable" animations, the purpose is for you to generate sales. The purpose of my post was to keep this a discussion forum free from advertising. Wow yeah, I'm evil and controlling.

As someone who has great respect for your opinion, I concur that the SL Classifieds forum is a mess - but as more people are getting into animating, this forum is becoming one as well. That is what I don't want to see - I want to see this be a useful forum to the community, not just ad after ad.

And as for your comment regarding the classifieds forum and no one reading them, the traffic my store received this weekend from the three ads I placed (including one for your hug attachment) do not reflect that at all. It is a forum that people read, myself included, looking for interesting new things without having to go into 20 forums to find them.

Whether or not one feels ads in this forum add or detract is not the point. This is not designated place for them.

I have a designated parking place, I dont park in my neighbors spot because it better suits me.

Its just a simple matter of common courtesy.

Is restating forum decorum rules really an attempt to shame someone? No. What is an attempt tho, is falsely accusing me of injecting negativity while trying to reach out and control with shame.

Nice psycho babble Ulrika. It doesn't fly.


fen-

Sorry if this post sounds like a hijack, but it does relate to this thread's topic, I promise ...
Many people are concerned that if we don't self-moderate then Linden Labs will get tired of having to police the forums themselves and just get rid of them altogether. If this happens, we will have to spread out into the fan sites (which has been encouraged). In other words, we should start organizing ourselves before it gets out of control and then the forums get taken away.

I can somewhat understand that classifieds should not be here, especially if you are going to post in on the classifieds , here , and every damn post you make *coughs* Ulrika!

This is entirely my point. I think it is better for the community if we all share what we've been up to. While this may not be the "designated place" for them, I think there's no better place to share our latest stuff than here.

I thought it was just an unwritten courtesy that we ignore the rules for now. They don't make sense.

Hopefully, one day, there will be enough animators that this forum will be filled with discussion threads. But not yet.

I'm asking if we can find our sense of community here, and ignore the rules for now, in order to help us grow. What do you think?

I think direct ads should be in the classifieds. It took over a year to get the classifieds section, we should use it for its intended purpose. I still think the classifieds should have categories, but one step at a time on that.

This is the place to say, "Hey, I did this. I found a trick that helped with this by doing this. I had a problem that I overcame by doing this. I think this is cool, but wonder if you like the idea or can think of something else I could do. If you want to see it, look me up and I will show it to you. I have an ad in the classifieds if you would be interested in buying it."

Just my take on it, carry on.

The problem begins when everyone begins to ignore the rules, especially if it's convenient for them. It sets a precedent, it states that this is alright to do. I see people posting ads in the "New to SL" section a lot. Most of them out of ignorance, but many to get their stuff noticed. While we all would like to get our stuff noticed by posting ads, we understand that the forums have been divided into sections for that reason and limit ourselves to the Classifieds.

I agree with Loki. It took a long time to get a Classifieds section, if we keep posting ads in the other sections instead, the forums will either get more strict in terms on what can be posted or they will be eliminated all together. I think that obeying the rules it's worth it, since disobeying them can have negative results in the end.

I admit that Cristiano does have a point. Perhaps we should compromise.

I want to keep the ads here because it lets me know what people are up to. However, as the community grows these ads could be distracting. What if we require that all advertisements posted provide descriptions of what the animations are and perhaps some technical information that other animators would find interesting as well.

Let's say instead of ads, we post infomercials. They let people know what were selling but provide that extra bit of information that adds value to the readers of the animation forum.

For example,

I have a new animated protest sign for sale at my shop. It includes six custom animations which change at random intervals and can be controlled either by voice or by touch. It also accepts multiple user textures and animations which also can be changed by voice or touch. The six animations are all variations on a protest theme and involve various amounts of sign waving, fist shaking, and shouting.

I believe that provides a useful insight into exactly what the animations and scripts do as well as promoting a product. This is something I'd like to see from everyone. In the classifieds section, we could keep it a pure advertising pitch. What do you all think of the infomercial idea as a compromise?

~Ulrika~

Despite my conciliatory post preceding this one, I just had to make a round trip to address this post. Don't let it affect your desire to make a compromise.


These are feniks first two posts to the animation forum. Despite never having participated in this forum, he is here now to tell all of us that he doesn't care how we feel and demands that we obey the rules. If a self-righteous authoritarian commanding you to obey isn't the definition of negativity, I don't know what is.

You are clearly trying to control our behavior instead of seeking compromise. Given that you have never participated in this forum, I can't imagine why someone with such a nonconcilliatory tone would expect to be met with open arms. Go peddle your totalitarianism somewhere else goose stepper. This forum is free! Power to the people!

~Ulrika~

How about forget the compromise, and use the forums how are they intended to be used?
YAY!

Although this is directed at Feniks, I will respond.

Wow you just keep slurring people Ulrika. Could you possibly be any more arrogant or insulting? Can you actually deal with issues without making baseless accusations against the person involved? If you read my post, I asked if the ads belong in the SL Classifieds forum, not here. You parlayed that into me being a self serving control freak, and that you represent all that is freedom because of your monumental contributions(!) to the animation community of SL. I am disgusted by your postings, even if you did back off of leveling them at me. You didn't compromise at all, in spite of appearance sake. The damage is already done. I agree with what Feniks said to you 100%, as well as Kats, Sensual and Loki, who have all said the same thing I did in my original. Are you going to flame all of us because we think this forum should be ad free and focused on animation questions? My god, what the hell is your problem?