discovered a bug at a casino that pays out to much

Like, say, if someone WHO IS NO RELATION TO ME were to buy land that had been set at a very very VERY low price - as it was intended for someone else - and the seller hadn't taken it off sale to "everyone".....?

LOL

There's a difference, since you're staying in the same niche. The casinos are running crooked games (you can't prove that they're not other than use the "they'd go out of business if they weren't honest" which isn't proof) and in this case it's backfiring.

There's a problem with either point of view however you turn it. If the OP's post had been about winning in a casino and not getting paid then the majority here would just go "yep, your own fault for playing in a casino, tough luck" as always happens in those kinds of threads.

If the OP had given debit permissions to a faulty script you'd have "yep, your own fault, don't be stupid and give faulty scripts debit permissions, tough luck".

Everyone always wants to blame the victim so why the sudden sympathy for the poor casino owner here?

Purely because it's a casino.

In another scenario I'd guess that the majority of people would jump if a landbot was malfunctioning and relisted parcels at the wrong price and they'd probably feel in the right and gleeful about it. Scammers don't deserve sympathy when they make a mistake.

Just because some casino operators are crooked doesn't make them all. If you went to a vendor that someone made and found that if you over pay it will give you back double the amount you paid, would you bleed the vendor owner dry? People sell freebies from some vendors so all people with vendors must be punished. I know people that do try their hardest to make games that are fair, and people use them. NOT EVERY CASINO IS RIGGED. I can't understand why you would paint everyone with a such a broad brush.

And to let you know, if L$ are gotten from a exploit in a script, the Lindens will ban you and return the money. I know, I have seen it happen.

There is a difference between "You should be more careful because there are crooks out there" ('Your own fault for giving debit permission to unknown code... ') and "Hey, stealing stuff however you can is just fine! Go for it!"

Stealing stuff is not just fine. It is not okay to make theft code and leave it in newbie boxes, and it is not okay to take all of someone's money through a bug. Of course you should be cautious because there are people out there who will -- but that doesn't make it right.

As for the assertion that they are crooked, when you make an accusation the burden of proof is on you. I could say "Kitty Barnett is a mass murderer, and it's obviously true because you can't prove she's not!" Of course we can't prove these things; we don't know who Kitty Barnett's first-life person is, and even if we did, she probably can't account for her whereabouts for every minute of her life, and we don't know the details of the casino code. That doesn't make either of them automatically guilty.

Also 'House Always Wins' doesn't mean against every individual. In a real casino, most of the money that people lose goes out again in other people's pockets. The amount won and the amount lost are almost, but not quite, equal, and that 'not quite' adds up when enough money passes through the room. Of course, you should never play games of chance with the expectation of winning.

Because you can't prove that they're running fair games.

That's not entirely true .

I could go to the police and get an official document that shows I'm not (not entirely sure of the proper English name for it ). I wouldn't for the forums obviously and I can't really think of a situation where it would come up.

A degree might be more fitting? If someone says they're a psychiatrist in a casual conversation then there's no reason to question that, but if that person was running a practice then it wouldn't be unreasonable to ask them to back up their claims of being one and showing they're in good standing with the medical board.

For in-world, if I went to Electric Sheep and said I was the best 3D designer in the world, it wouldn't be unreasonable for them to actually ask for some RL credentials and proof in whatever way. They don't need to take my word for it, nor would anyone think they should.

Even if the funds are ill-gotten, you still have no right to exploit them and take the money, unless you are going to give back to the people that were scammed.

If there was a good way for gaming establishments to certify themselves, I would guess that a number of them would, but this question is a old as scripts in SL, how without making it so everyone can copy you?

I think the answer is pretty simple, and i'll preface it this way.
You are in the self same casino, and you discover a bug that is Paying you Half the Winnings you are entitled to. I would venture to guess it would take a VERY precise scientific Instrument to measure How fast you would be in IM to the casino owner to report that bug to him.
If you have any Honor, integrity, or ethical sense at All, If you Ever expect to be Treated with any kind of justice Yourself, one would expect that you would report THIS bug with the same speed. It's ALWAYS the best policy to seek redress for Others with the same speed, and dilligence that you would apply to seeking it for yourself.
You will probably not gain any more from doing so than your Honor, and Self Respect, but it's been my experience that those rewards are worth far more than any Monitary gain you might get from this Bug.

Angel.

The point is, you can't prove they are running unfair games. I do not know, and you do not know, and you are saying that they should be robbed because they ARE running unfair games. Aside from the point that two wrongs do not make a right, you've no basis for their guilt. We don't even know which sim they are in, there is no way we can know if they are fair or not.

The reason it wouldn't come up is because everyone in the civilized world accepts the principle that it is proof is required for guilt. It is extremely difficult to prove a negative. Even your certificate from the police would only prove that the police had no reason to suspect you of a crime; it would not prove you had never commited a crime that the police had failed to detect.


Anyone in the US can put up a sign and open a practice as a 'therapist' with no license whatsoever, which is the same as SL businesses - there is no oversight or licensing and no way to know who is a fair business and who is not. (And this does not apply only to gambling, it applies to all business. Every time you spend lindens you take a risk.) To claim to be a practicing psychiatrist on the other hand, does mean to claim a college degree and a government license. This has nothing to do with SL, because nobody is claiming official certification. It's not at all reasonable to ask somebody to show credentials that don't exist. Even if a license existed, all you could say about an unlicensed establishment was that they were unlicensed; if it wasn't a mandatory license they wouldn't even be doing anything wrong. You might trust licensed establishments more than unlicensed, just as most people prefer to go to an actual licensed doctor "Psychiatrist" and not to a claims-to-be-able-to-help "therapist".

Thank you Angel. Well said.

Deliberately cheating someone is not acceptable. If you do it or advocate it, you are a bad person.

I will make a note of everyone who's posted "DO IT, STEAL THE MONEY!" on this thread. The next time you come whining to this forum about how somebody did YOU wrong, I'll just remind you of your own words and suggest you contemplate the concept of karma.

Oh, and mock you mercilessly and derail your thread into a discussion of what exactly Brenda will do for a pair of Jimmy Choos.

Because you never put your panties up for auction.

If things were better it wouldn't even be a problem. Noone should be able to obtain money from someone else wrongly and without recourse. From a casino owner running a faulty script to a consumer who buys something from a content creator and never receives what they paid for.

I didn't say they should be robbed, I said LL wouldn't care, and because it's a casino I'm rather indifferent one way or the other. I personally wouldn't, but there are no actual rules within SL to make it an actual violation so it's a valid choice in the current system.

The more things like that happen, the more likely it is we'll finally get a protection system one way or the other which I do care about. It's the naive belief that morals are enough that makes it possible for less caring people to scheme in the first place.

The OP is also responsible for their choices, and if there wasn't already a desire to take advantage the post would probably have been about whether it's wrong to keep the already obtained money and not if it's wrong to get more of it.

(I didn't address the rest of it since it probably wouldn't lead to anything more productive so just settled to clarify my position . Kind of surprised you can claim to be a psychiatrist without any certification in the US though, that would put you in jail here)

Oh thats how you get money!

Well open the bidding then!


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ps j/k im sure thats against forum rules and stuff.

Is the casino owner or the creator an enemy of yours? Or an enemy to society who ought to be extirpated? If so you got him.

Or rather, are they strangers and do you regard yourself as a predator and therefore anyone who leaves himself vulnerable to you is your legitimate prey? If so, you have found one. This is an attitude common among criminals and sociopaths, and the wise seek to identify and combine against them for obvious reasons.

Or do you conceive of others, including strangers, as fellow human beings you want to do right by in general? If so, you clue the poor guy in.

Since you have raised the question, it is clear you are in the last camp, as am I, and I think it is clear what you are actually going to do. You're just maybe...tempted a little.

But thanks for sharing it with us. It was fun to stop and think about it a moment.

Ok, thank you all for the replys.

I have decided to do the right thing and resist temptation so i IM'ed the creator. Although i still fell very tempted.

I thought about and yes someone was exactly right, when i got ripped off by a casino the first thing i did was im the owner then file an AR and then i posted here (i think that was even my first post).

So, thank you to all the angels on my shoulder who were telling me to do the right thing.

I have found several wallets in my life. The ones I returned and refused rewards for I barely remember or think about. The one that I found and kept when i was 16 haunts me to this day.

"There is no softer pillow than a clear conscience." -- French proverb

Teach them a lesson? Sounds like a sorry exuse for cheating them out of money. Where are your morals? You should IM the creator and inform him (or her) about your discovery. Even the most dillegent scripters can make a mistake and miss an error. Obiously you waste your time camping and dont do anything CONSTRUCTIVE like script or build or make clothing. That would take talent. Obviously you waste your time playing games looking for the easy buck (and probably failing at it since over time, you loose money gambling). Would LL kick you out.. not likely, although they probably should. I've seen people do alot worse and come off with a 3 day suspention. Obviously, you're looking for the easy buck, not only by gambling, but by your lame statement that you think that the creator should pay you for "testing" their product. Don't bother LL with it, they have nothing to do with it. You should report this to the creator so he can fix it, and get the idea of getting "paid" for "beta testing" the device. Then, quite wasting your time playing games, learn something, and do something constructive. The first constructive thing you can do is to notify the creator.

What? What evidence do you have to support such a stupid statement. If machines were "rigged", people would notice, and not play, not playing equals the casino operator not making money on it, thus, not wasting the space and prims having the device in their casino. There have been rigged machines here and there, and they are generally found out, and the creator is shunned and put out of business. As a scripter, if I were to make a gaming device I would not rig it. When you create items for sale, your sales are heavily dependent on the quality of the device. How would I expect to make money selling a machine that would quickly be found out as being "rigged". Once it was known that I was selling a rigged device, casino operators would shun me and put me out of business. The truth of the matter is that most gambling devices are above board, and generally have high payout rates (typically 90-95 percent). They HAVE to be that way, because if people are not winning money on a paticular machine, they will not play it. The whole idea is to keep people playing, and, over time, the casino operator makes a profit over time. If you're going to make a stupid statement like that, at least present the evidence to support your claim.

I don't believe it's any of your business how the OP spends time in SL. Some people log on to enjoy respite from their RL days of doing constructive activities.

And he posted his reply 3 hours after the OP said she had IMd the creator so didnt even bother reading the thread first or he would have seen the OPs post lol some people just like to blow there own trumpets i think it gives some a feeling of self importance